Horrible interview experience

[geowrian 22,336]

5 hours ago, gabreigns said:

I remember during one of my interviews the interviewer mentioned that they were really concerned with chain migration and its effects on the medicaid and the social security system. In other words bringing the elderly from other countries and using the medicaid system will only overburden and break the system eventually. She mentioned that medicaid is for people who have paid in to the system over time and she is worried that she herself wont be able to get medicaid because of people who migrated here without paying in to the system and using up the existing limited pool of money making the entire system expensive and in the long run kill the system. Not to mention that politicians use these as their honeypots to get money out when they need it to balance state budgets.

There's no way to know if an IO had such a bias, but it by no way a legal reason for denial. In the absence of evidence suggesting they did this and used the English requirement as a reason for the denial, I would not go down that route.

 

5 hours ago, inneedofmyhb said:

This is just simply sad.  Just because someone has a "strong" accent should mean nothing.  If you work as an officer for immigration, I would think that you would hear every accent, from every country every single day.  It does not matter if she is 80, 60, 20 or has an accent.  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that any employee working for OUR country should ever be rude or make anyone feel less of a person because they are an immigrant.  This is a huge issue all across USCIS and it really needs to be addressed.  And for anyone to make a comment why she is trying to become a citizen at 80 is just another rude comment and only puts you in the same place as the rude embarrassment of an officer who treats people like this day in and day out. 

An accent is not an issue. Being able to understand somebody's spoken English is.

I doubt they hear an accent from somebody from every country every day. They likely only do a dozen or so interview a day at most. I'm going to assume it was hyperbole, but I'll note that hyperbole doesn't help anybody here.

I'm not aware of anybody that said she shouldn't try to become a citizen (maybe just one remark regarding the use of public benefits)...only that if she can't meet the requirements then there are few (non-personal) reasons to do so.

 

5 hours ago, inneedofmyhb said:

Instead of bashing her that she doesn't know perfect English, maybe you should complain to the top officials who have made it possible to live in our country an entire lifetime and not have to learn one word of ENGLISH because it is the "law" that everywhere you go, every label you read is translated in English.

It's not a matter of knowing "perfect English". The OP has stated that she barely speaks English. Big difference.

The requirement to learn English for everybody in the US - or not - is a moot point. The INA requires knowing English for naturalization. The OP's MIL has only been in the US for ~5 years and lived in a fairly secluded area, so even if such an English requirement existed, it likely would have had no impact at all (lest the requirement were extend to obtaining the visa, in which case she would still be separated form the OP as well).

[Boiler 43,630]

On 9/6/2018 at 2:45 PM, Ruark said:

This was at the San Antonio USCIS center.

 

I took my mother in law, from Russia, to her citizenship interview yesterday. It was a nightmare. She is 80 years old, no education, a very frail, meek, gentle old lady, who has struggled for 2 years trying to learn enough English to pass the interview.  We practiced daily, and she reached the point where she can do the civics questions, speaking and writing tests almost perfectly.  But still, she can BARELY use English.  Good grief, she's 80 years old, remember.

 

We watched the "sample interviews" online, where it showed these warm, smiling officers greeting them, asking them to raise their hands, "please remain standing," etc. and she was prepared for that at well. We actually play-acted these situations in the living room.

 

None of this happened.  The officer stepped into the waiting area and called out her number.  She walked over and smiled at the officer, who was stone-faced, cold as ice.  The officer waved at her to come, without saying a word, and walked back to her office.  There, she just pointed at a chair, gesturing for my MIL to sit.  She didn't greet her, introduce herself, nothing.  No "please remain standing," no oath, etc. Then she sat behind the desk, grabbed a piece of paper and started throwing questions at my MIL, never looking up at her, just looking down at the paper and mumbling the questions at a high speed. Of course, my MIL had NO idea what she was saying.  One time my MIL asked her, with a smile, "can you repeat, please," and she looked angry. My MIL was too intimidated to try that again. 

 

Then she tried the civics questions. She asked a couple of questions and didn't even give my MIL time to answer them. A couple of times she did answer, but the officer claimed "I couldn't understand what she was saying." Of course, my MIL speaks with a heavy Russian accent, but she is by NO means understandable!  She gave my MIL the writing test, and she did fine, she passed that.  The officer didn't even GIVE her the reading-aloud test, which surprised me, as my MIL reads PERFECTLY, better that some native English speakers. I asked the officer why she didn't give the reading test, and she smirked, "I couldn't, she didn't even know what I wanted her to do" which was total bullcrap. For heaven's sakes, just put the sentences in front of her and say "read these"! 

 

When they were finished, the officer stood up, walked to the office door and opened it, and rudely motioned for my MIL to leave.  No comments, no smile, no nothing.  She just barked "2nd interview" and stood there by the door.  The entire thing was less than 10 minutes. 

 

My MIL was despondent, not just at failing the test she was CAPABLE of scoring perfectly, but at the rudeness of the officer.  We talked to a friend whose parents had been through it, and she said, "oh, they're all like that, just rude and ugly, this is all normal...." and she advised taking an attorney to the next interview.  So we are going tomorrow for a preliminary visit with a good attorney ($$$).  Meanwhile, my MIL was crushed.  As of 10 pm last night she was still crying.  Have you ever seen an 80 year old lady crying herself to sleep?  It's not pretty.

 

My wife, of course, was livid that this could treat her mother like that and walk away scott free.  We plan to write a complaint to the supervisor, but will consult the attorney first, before doing anything. 

 

Thoughts, comments and advice are welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

But still, she can BARELY use English.  Good grief, she's 80 years old, remember.

 

I think this is the salient point.

[hope2018 25]

16 hours ago, Mr.Jose said:

Good point. Unfortunately, he wants to abuse the law, get citizenship for his mother in law and get medicaid at low cost or for free.

You do not know their financial situation to judge them. If an 80 years old lady needs Medicaid, she should be able to get it. She is a human being and she is someone's mother, sister, and wife. I would be happy to have my tax money go toward the health care expenses for children and elderly, USC or not.  

[Boiler 43,630]

3 minutes ago, hope2018 said:

You do not know their financial situation to judge them. If an 80 years old lady needs Medicaid, she should be able to get it. She is a human being and she is someone's mother, sister, and wife. I would be happy to have my tax money go toward the health care expenses for children and elderly, USC or not.  

No need to go through the tax system, you can pay direct, cut out the middleman. Or woman.

[hope2018 25]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

No need to go through the tax system, you can pay direct, cut out the middleman. Or woman.

I have been donated through gofundme and help people getting medications for free or low cost through medication assistance programs within my best ability daily at work . One person can only do so much.  Life is full of surprises, you never know what challenges will come your way and you may need other people's help someday.

[inneedofmyhb 217]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

There's no way to know if an IO had such a bias, but it by no way a legal reason for denial. In the absence of evidence suggesting they did this and used the English requirement as a reason for the denial, I would not go down that route.

 

An accent is not an issue. Being able to understand somebody's spoken English is.

I doubt they hear an accent from somebody from every country every day. They likely only do a dozen or so interview a day at most. I'm going to assume it was hyperbole, but I'll note that hyperbole doesn't help anybody here.

I'm not aware of anybody that said she shouldn't try to become a citizen (maybe just one remark regarding the use of public benefits)...only that if she can't meet the requirements then there are few (non-personal) reasons to do so.

 

It's not a matter of knowing "perfect English". The OP has stated that she barely speaks English. Big difference.

The requirement to learn English for everybody in the US - or not - is a moot point. The INA requires knowing English for naturalization. The OP's MIL has only been in the US for ~5 years and lived in a fairly secluded area, so even if such an English requirement existed, it likely would have had no impact at all (lest the requirement were extend to obtaining the visa, in which case she would still be separated form the OP as well).

It doesn't matter if only one person mentioned the use of public benefits. We come here for support in what we are going through. We want words of encouragement. Some of the responses here have been pretty rude. And it seems that I am not the only one that noticed this.  My comment regarding the accent was extended further than what is reality. But they certainly do not interview anyone with perfect English. 

 

If you read her original post correctly, the Officer started asking questions quickly. Now, I don't care if you've been in this country 5 years or your whole life, if I'm nervous and I am receiving a bunch of questions all at once, I myself would become Extremely nervous and I would also ask "Could you please repeat that?" I don't care about the circumstances. Courtesy should be given in any situation like this. And I will never defend that type of behavior. 

 

She came here to vent to others who are going through a similar situation. 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

OP has said MIL can barely speak English but was basically coached in how to answer the civics, reading and writing parts. So the main question does revolve around whether she can speak enough English to satisfy the requirements. 

 

the official guideline for scoring the speaking part of the test is as follows:

 

SPEAKING: An applicant’s verbal skills are determined by the applicant’s answers to questions normally asked by USCIS Officers during the naturalization eligibility interview. USCIS Officers are required to repeat and rephrase questions until the Officer is satisfied that the applicant either fully understands the question or does not understand English. If the applicant generally understands and can respond meaningfully to questions relevant to the determination of eligibility, the applicant has demonstrated the ability to speak English.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Office of Citizenship/Citizenship Resource Center Site/Publications/PDFs/Test_Scoring_Guidelines.pdf

it doesn’t sound like the interviewing officer repeated and rephrased much, but it’s also unclear from what the OP said that the MIL would be able to “generally understand and respond meaningfully” (speaking is not just understanding - I think like most people, I understand much more than I can speak of languages when i start to learn them...). While it sounds like OP and their aggressive attorney may have some grounds here to object on whether or not the questions were rephrased, it also sounds like MIL, age or not, needs to get better at English to pass. I honestly think she needs to get out more and talk more, or at least get her to practice by posing as a customer and phoning a bunch of businesses and asking them questions about their products or services. Then she’ll also get used to how different people speak English and not get thrown off by an interviewer who may also have an accent, as was pointed at here.

 

~~~~

 

Incidentally, there has been research done in the past showing that one of the reasons that the US has generally been more successful than other countries in integrating immigrants into society is precisely because it does integrate them - with the two main things being speaking English and the emphasis on work over welfare which also forces people out of the home (no I’m not right wing just stating research findings). It goes without saying that not speaking the language limits the ability of immigrants in school, work and general participation in society. It’s there for a reason. 

[nbluDeby 5]

19 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Immigration is a privilege, not a right, and when someone chooses to immigrate to the US , they need to understand that part of what they have freely chosen to do of their own will, is to leave family behind.

This is incredibly cruel, goes against what this country stands for, and I hope you personally never have to make a choice like this.

 

"The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "

 

20 hours ago, Sue You said:

Yeesh, You can interpret the facts any way you like. And make it fit your point of view. 

If some people mention their direct experiences and offer their point of view which is not aligned with yours it is not spreading fear. It is making every one aware of various situations everyone faces. We are all in the same boat and that is why we are on this forum. 

I'm sorry but this is just not true. I understand we all cherish our experiences and want to feel good about always being right, yet when facts clearly override your biases, the right thing to do is to at least examine your beliefs and see if maybe you could improve over time. This is really hard to do, and honestly most of this fearmongering is specifically constructed to confuse people and often it sort of "makes sense", so it's easy to fall for it. Your direct experience is valuable, but often is doesn't tell you much about the broader picture, and in fact frequently our minds notice exceptions more than the ordinary.

 

Good luck with your case!

 

[Boiler 43,630]

Most Countries have issues with Parents moving, I know Canada at one time banned Parents being sponsored to immigrate.

 

I did briefly consider the situation for my PArents but they were older with multiple medical issues and it simply was not practical, no health care system in the US, well one that is affordable.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

3 hours ago, nbluDeby said:

This is incredibly cruel, goes against what this country stands for, and I hope you personally never have to make a choice like this.

 

"

 

“Cruel”? You as an immigrant make that choice. If anyone is being cruel, it’s up to the immigrant to consider the ramifications of their decision and how cruel they may be to who they are leaving behind. Show me where in the constitution it says that any immigrant automatically gets the right to bring the rest of their family with them? What a sense of entitlement. It’s attitudes like this that turn so many people against the notion of chain migration in the first place.

Edited September 8, 2018 by SusieQQQ

[Ban Hammer 12,867]

3 posts removed, 2 for tos violations and 1 for quoting.
administrative action has been taken.

as this thread has run its course, it will remain locked.

the op may start another topic if newer information regarding the situation needs advice.

 

charles

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