The Daily Trump wins again thread

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

what i'm hearing from you and others who support the wall, is that making it impossible for them to work here is not possible. only for them to not get here in the first place. from where i sit, seems a better plan to make sure that their wages are taxed by giving employers the ability to report their earnings. if they're taxed and spending earnings in local economy, there is no downside imo.

It is very possible to make it impossible to work here. Tax illegals. Thats insane , they dont need to be here. Next thing you will say is you want open borders. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, IDWAF said:

I doubt it.  It’s a “war” that needs to be fought on many fronts.  Pursuing those who employ illegals is certainly a good one.  But as I said, the fines would have to be huge.  In the gun world, if you get caught selling guns illegally, not only do you get a fine, you can lose your license.  Obviously, this would only work on legit business owners.  But somehow, some way, we have to get employers to do the right thing.  

 

The wall?  IDK... I’m not convinced either way.  It would have to be pretty deep underground to work, and I am not sure there is a “deep enough” for it to be viable.  Having crawled in the tunnels that go from North to South Korea, I understand that when humans are determined, they can do quite a bit.  

it doesn't have to be about doing the 'right' thing, it should simply be about following the law in paying taxes..nothing more nothing less..

as a former dare graduate, i feel qualified to state that when the us goes to war with a "thing" (drugs, poverty, immigration) we're setting ourselves up for failure. 

[spookyturtle 9,465]

26 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

why would you assume because  the person was caught it meant, whoever they were working for got caught also. Thats a wobbly leap of logic there.

Because the government would be going after employers to begin with, not randomly looking for illegals. Plenty of non matching names to ss#'s to start with. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

it doesn't have to be about doing the 'right' thing, it should simply be about following the law in paying taxes..nothing more nothing less..

as a former dare graduate, i feel qualified to state that when the us goes to war with a "thing" (drugs, poverty, immigration) we're setting ourselves up for failure. 

Ok follow the law. deport them 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

It is very possible to make it impossible to work here. Tax illegals. Thats insane , they dont need to be here. Next thing you will say is you want open borders. 

if businesses can simply get around hiring them, if it's still cheaper for them to get fined than not hire them..why do you think it would ever be impossible for them to work here?

 

i mean, we already do. not so insane. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/

Quote

According to the Social Security Administration, there were nearly 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States in January 2009. Factoring out kids, nonworking immigrants and those working in the underground economy and not paying taxes, the Social Security Administration estimated about 3.1 million unauthorized immigrants  who worked and paid Social Security taxes in 2010.

This group and their employers generated about $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010. The administration then subtracted about $1 billion in benefits that could’ve been received in 2010 from earnings in years when workers were unauthorized. Workers and employers contribute roughly the same amount.

In a 2014 Vice News piece, the Social Security Administration’s chief actuary Stephen C. Goss affirmed the $12 billion contribution.

Social Security Administration analysts said "a relatively small portion" of those who could draw benefits do so.

Laws enacted in 1996 and 2004 block Social Security benefits paid to unauthorized immigrants or to any noncitizen without a work-authorized Social Security number at some point in time, the administration said.

An analysis by the conservative Heritage Foundation came up with a lower figure: $7 billion, excluding payments from employers.

Though Kumar told us she meant Social Security taxes in an email interview with PolitiFact, she didn’t specify this on Meet the Press. Without the specification, her figure would have been more accurate about taxes overall.

A 2016 study by the Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, a left-leaning research organization, estimated that undocumented immigrants pay $11.64 billion in state and local taxes in 2013, equivalent to about 8 percent of their total income.

This includes sales and excise taxes on goods and services ($6.9 billion), property taxes ($3.6 billion) and personal income taxes ($1.1 billion, assuming a 50 percent compliance rate).

The Heritage Foundation came up with a similar result in a 2013 report. It found that the average undocumented immigrant household paid $10,334 in taxes. About half of these 3.4 million households do not pay any taxes.

Using Heritage’s analysis, that would translate to about $17.6 billion paid in taxes.

Heritage noted that the average undocumented immigrant household received about $24,721 in government benefits and services (i.e. public education, welfare benefits and services like police and highways), resulting in a deficit of $14,387.

 

[spookyturtle 9,465]

23 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

my my, what reasonable logic you have.  You seem to have some knowledge of how the system works.

 

I would further add that (even though some don’t believe illegals can start up a business with no business license) if the person getting caught were to happen to be employed by an illegal, turning that employer in would be counter-productive.  Take your lumps, get sent home, then sneak back over and go back to your job in a month or so.  

 

While I am completely on board with fining the employers of illegals, not every deportee is going to turn them in.  And unless the fines are HUGE, the cost savings to an employer who it paying under the table may well make the fines worth it.

Why does the deportee have to turn in their employer? Let the government do its job enforcing the law. The system doesn't work, it needs to fixed. Let Trump

lead the way and fix it. 

 

[charmander 692]

I found this 2011 article on ramifications of making e-verify mandatory. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2011/09/13/10273/the-10-numbers-you-need-to-know-about-e-verify/

Interesting, I haven't thought of some of the items on that list. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

7 minutes ago, charmander said:

I found this 2011 article on ramifications of making e-verify mandatory. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2011/09/13/10273/the-10-numbers-you-need-to-know-about-e-verify/

Interesting, I haven't thought of some of the items on that list. 

Quote

$17.3 billion: The amount of federal revenue that will be lost over 10 years with mandatory E-Verify as undocumented workers move off the books and into the cash economy where the government cannot collect taxes.

so we can pay for the wall (cause mexico ain't) and we'll loose 17.3 billion in federal revenue if we lose undocumented workers..interesting.

[charmander 692]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

so we can pay for the wall (cause mexico ain't) and we'll loose 17.3 billion in federal revenue if we lose undocumented workers..interesting.

But that number assumes illegals would continue to work under the table. With potential fines and penalties most employers won't be able to risk hiring illegals anymore (at least that's what we are assuming).

[TBoneTX 43,069]

Wanted to inject here that, at this typing, Val has exactly 10,000 reputation points.

My celebratory sammich should be a BLT, with triple B and hold the L & T, please.

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

15 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

so we can pay for the wall (cause mexico ain't) and we'll loose 17.3 billion in federal revenue if we lose undocumented workers..interesting.

So basically we would still be 5 billion in the black because we spend 22 billion as a whole on illegals.

[smilesammich 10,727]

13 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Wanted to inject here that, at this typing, Val has exactly 10,000 reputation points.

My celebratory sammich should be a BLT, with triple B and hold the L & T, please.

how do you get a sammich outta my reps?! boo.

11 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

So basically we would still be 5 billion in the black because we spend 22 billion as a whole on illegals.

gotta be a better solution.

[TBoneTX 43,069]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

how do you get a sammich outta my reps?! boo.

Those who have reached your august level (and in January, no less) ought to feed the huddled masses, si ma'am.

[smilesammich 10,727]

15 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Those who have reached your august level (and in January, no less) ought to feed the huddled masses, si ma'am.

leeches. not my first go round either.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, smilesammich said:

so we can pay for the wall (cause mexico ain't) and we'll loose 17.3 billion in federal revenue if we lose undocumented workers..interesting.

So are you saying let them stay, because they do more good than harm for the US?