Prenup agreement discussion

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

And my husband did not ask neither talk about prenup. If ever he did, I would listen to him but I would stick with my beliefs.

So it's your way or no way.

I'm glad my husband and I compromise and in our marriage we address both of our concerns equally. Maybe that is because the gods play such a central role in our marriage.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Nola123

[ndu26 114]

OP if there are other issues here apart from her refusal to discuss the prenup topic then rethink your plans. I personally do not agree with a prenup and would be very offended if my husband brought it up too even though I am the one who stands to lose a great deal more. maybe because I went into marriage with belief and instructions from a unique book. does that mean others who sign a pre nup are making mistakes? of course not. just as we should not chastize her for not wanting one. We all think and act differently.

The fact that she refused to discuss it may stem from the way and timing it was brought up. I have found myself hotly refusing to discuss an issue with my hubby initially only to back down and we iron it lot later amicably. Peopel hold tight to their cultures, traditions and belief systmes they were raised up with and it is very easy for some of us who who do not have that or once had it but have assimilated another way of thinking to castigate them.

Give her time and try another approach. follow it from a questions approach Like :" I would like to hear from you what you belief is about prenup and why youhave reservations about it" instead of " I want us to sign prenup before we move ahead".

If the prenup is more imprtant to you, the ball is in your court.

Please dnt give people the chance to call her " baby" "immature" 'selfish" here just because she is demonstraing her being a free agent also.

...My two cents.

[Michael-Moneth 6]

I am the Filipina fiance and I was the one who brought it up to him.. Not because I am trying to figure out what can I have but to see his view on it whether he wants it or not.. wh

[bt1 42]

My two cents. If you have deep pockets, and a lot to lose, I would go with a prenup. If you have little in the way of assets, then its a toss up. She should understand that a prenup can actually protect her in that you can write out a specific set of circumstances that gives her financial stability. As an example..going the distance here, Donald Trump with no prenup would have lost half his fortune. With a prenup only about 50 million.If she does not even want to listen, then I would consider thinking about what your future may hold.

I think just the opposite. If you are Donald Trump and if you loose 50 million, you probably will still "survive" and have money left to live a comfortable life. If you don't have a whole lot, then loosing that even little is a huge thing! I worked all my life for everything I now have and I sure am going to protect all of it: my husband had no problem signing a prenup, despite the fact that culturally, one could take this as an offense. We talked about it, I explained my reasons and explained that this also protects him: whatever he brought into the marriage, he can take in the event we divorced. Make it a fair deal for everyone, so it takes away that feeling of only one side using it as "insurance".

[Caryh 5,206]

You noticed that reaction in Filipinas to? I try and try to get my wife to see the bright side, but she always still seems to want to look towards the worst result of things. I'm sure not all are like that, but my wife is constantly worrying about the worst case scenario about everything. I've always been a bit more pragmatic about things. I hope for the best, and do my best not to worry about trouble unless its at my door step. Which doesn't mean I don't plan for trouble to pop up, I just don't dwell on it and worry about it.

My wife also gets real upset if I mention me dieing. I'm 17 years older and the man, so odds are good I'll go long before she will. She also got upset when I brought up life insurance. But I ignored it, and said this is what we're going to do. And got us both life insurance policies, of the same amount.

I never even brought up the idea of a prenup. I have no intention of ever going through divorce again, and I make my relationship with my wife my primary focus in life, so with god's good will, everything will be fine. In the event a divorce should come about, my state has very fair laws, so I'm not worried about it. She'd get half of everything we accumulated during the marriage, and thats pretty much it. They don't even like giving spousal support in my state, unless on person has no capability to work, and then its normally limited time until they can get back in the work place. She did ask me why I never asked for a prenup, and I told her she's not allowed to divorce me, and I won't divorce her. If we have troubles, we both have to work to straighten it out, or I'd tell her mother on her But she has said, if I ever don't want her any longer, to just send her home and don't kill her. I've really got to get her to quit watching that stupid murder investigation channel

I'm also of the opinion, if she really loved the OP, she wouldn't care about the prenup. But I can see how a Filipina would take the idea of a prenup wrong. Its just doesn't seem to be part of their culture, so confusion resulting in her getting upset is probably not such an unusual reaction.

I agree with others that her reaction is not what anyone would like to hear in this instance. I would ask yourself a few questions before proceeding on. How well do you know her?? How much time have you spent with her? Does she have skills that will enable her to work in the USA and make it in the event down the road your marriage ended? As a lot of us mentioned in other posts pertaining to this topic. No pre-nup is normally granted 100% as written if written just one way with other party not receiving anything. Unless divorce happens within the first year of marriage is the exception. I would step back and take a pause on this to see if she comes around. Filipinas are normally reactionary people and are quick to think the worst (i/e you are considering a divorce topic) and become upset. Let it settle down for a bit and then discuss it again more opennly. If her pattern continues you may see a side you do not like and then your answer is there to make the decision to continue.

I know when I have discussed plans for my death as I am 23 years older than my fiancee she just closes up and yells at me not to discuss me dying. I just waited her out so she understood my life insurance etc. She still dispises addressing this so maybe on your fiancee's side it is just her way of reacting similar to mine and death. How is that for circling the wagon

Good luck..

Shawn (Bigbear)

[Caryh 5,206]

That was a little insensitive. I don't know any American women who've screwed their husbands out of money, in fact I have only seen the opposite.

I guess us American women are just all money grubbers out to swindle out ex-husbands. *rolls eyes*

It is a bit insensitive, but on the opposite side, I've seen many Americans out to screw their spouse in a divorce. Probably women attempting to do so more than men. At least in my generation, a lot of women going through divorce seem to feel they're entitled to all the assets, they do not even view it as screwing their spouse, they think its their right. They normally get a big surprise in my state, as do the men that attempt to screw their soon to be ex-wives. If you do end up divorced, its good when it happens in a state with very fair laws.

[Michael-Moneth 6]

I am the Filipina fiance and I was the one who brought it up to him.. Not because I am trying to figure out what can I have but to see his view on it whether he wants it or not.. when i asked him about it i got a little scolding from him because of raising the issue. so i explained to him that i read in here about Pre Nup issues and was just thinking if he would also ask me the same. So he told me that it never crossed his mind and he trusted me and that he doesn't want to think that we will ever get divorced. So I also told him that I really do not know what is really on a pre nup... most of the ones i read says it protects the other partner whenever they divorce and not taking money or property/ies... Told him that I just don't want that a day before our wedding he would tell me that I need to sign a Pre-Nup because I will really get insulted and would probably just go back home. He has all the time to talk to me about it and just a day or even when i get there he decides that I should sign one... I assured him that I wouldn't take anything from him whenever our marriage goes wrong and get divorced. He had them when I was still not part of his life so it is his.told him too that I am more than willing to sign one if he wants me to.. He then told me that whatever is his is OURS and he trusts me so much and hopes and believes that we will not ever get divorced and not to worry about it...

I do understand the OP about asking his fiance about pre-nup and I understand too as to why his fiance reacted that way. I know it is really something to talk about. Just give her sometime... lay out to her what good it will do for her... or let her talk to a lawyer regarding the issue for sure the lawyer could give her a better explanation about the pros and cons of it...

[mishka1 17]

I dont have a lot of money at all...I do and did trust her....but like i said a huge red flag to me...especially to not even discuss it....but i have my reasons to think about bringing it up to her...previously married so i have experienced it...and it is worst thing on earth.I know she is taking a big risk to come here with her son ,but im taking a big risk too,and have invested hugely in time,money and emotionally.I know its not an easy topic,but thought it was best to talk with her about it BEFORE starting the visa...prevent...i seriously think it is best of me to disscuss now then when she comes here so she can decide for herself what to do.

If you do not have lot of money as you mentioned, and if you don’t have children from your previous marriage you need them to inherit your personal assets, with or without prenup does not make any difference. Prenup is a common legal documents that protect personal assets of BOTH PARTIES not only one party. But trust and not trust aside, we are living in world of legalize. If she raise a red flag, when you mentioned Prenup, that means she is looking for issues beyond marriage. It is your decision, if you need to protect your personal asset or not. However if you are going to do prenup, to be on the safe side, use a lawyer to do the prenup (although it will cost more than the one you could down load from the internet that is specific to your state), during prenup signing, if she does not understand English get a translator who knows English and your fiancée’s language, if she wish, offer to pay for another lawyer to present her during signing the prenup.

[Alfia & John 10]

A pre-nup has to be one of the most touching conversations one can have-just the conversation brings thoughts of divorce and lack of trust. Personally, I am against pre-nups but I understand others want them. Yes, I have been divorced and yes, I have had my share of fleescings.

I would not be surprised by her reaction, this conversation is best done in person, not long distance. There are to many ways for a wrong impression, at least, in person you can hold each other and can open a line of conversation.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

It is a bit insensitive, but on the opposite side, I've seen many Americans out to screw their spouse in a divorce. Probably women attempting to do so more than men. At least in my generation, a lot of women going through divorce seem to feel they're entitled to all the assets, they do not even view it as screwing their spouse, they think its their right. They normally get a big surprise in my state, as do the men that attempt to screw their soon to be ex-wives. If you do end up divorced, its good when it happens in a state with very fair laws.

I don't know how old you are, but my mother has crossed the 60 threshold. She was screwed by husband #1 and #2 in her divorces in the 1980s and late 1990s. I actually inherited an annuity that was supposed to be hers but my step-dad had fraudulent put under his name and no one caught it. I gave the money back to her of course. My British dad made her buy out half of the house even though he had never made a payment on it or paid any of the utilities (he preferred to buy new gadgets with his money). My mother and I lived in abject poverty for the first 5 years of my life as she tried to pay down the house, pay off his debts that he incurred during the marriage, and put food on the table. There were many times when my mother could only afford meat for me and the oil delivery guy would give us free deliveries or go threaten my biological father to pay up so we could have heat in the winter. My mother had to return all my Christmas gifts the year they got divorced because she couldn't afford food for the next month and if you know her, she has never frivolously spent a dime in her life.

Anyways, men screw women too. I just hate this idea that American women are more apt to go after a guy's money or try and mess with him in a divorce. I have just seen time and time again that not be the case that I don't even get where the stereotype comes from.

[Krikit 1,163]

So the US citizen must make a financial commitment to the K-1, and the k-1 provides no assurance That she will not take everything if there is a divorce?

How is a one sided solution where the K-1 gets all the protection and the US citizen get none a win-win situation?

There is absolutely no protection for a K-1 beneficiary through a USC signing an I-864. None. And divorces happen whether it's a non-USC or not, so you are not comparing apples to apples. All the I-864 does is to allow the government to apply for restitution should the beneficiary need to apply for basic needs. And, even then, we have yet to hear of a USC being invoiced for such.

It is very disturbing that you believe the USC is taking more of a risk than the beneficiary. This couldn't be further from the truth in the majority of cases.

Anyways, men screw women too. I just hate this idea that American women are more apt to go after a guy's money or try and mess with him in a divorce. I have just seen time and time again that not be the case that I don't even get where the stereotype comes from.

Amen.

As this is not a K-1 Process issue I am moving the thread to Off Topic.

[Alfia & John 10]

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It is very disturbing that you believe the USC is taking more of a risk than the beneficiary. This couldn't be further from the truth in the majority of cases.

I also agree with this. Leaving friends, family and culture is a huge step; coming to an unfamiliar place and being totally dependent on another person can not be ignored. Occasionally, we should step back and consider the loss for the person immigrating. Personally, I would be willing to immigrate; I will leave the decision to her as she is the one giving up so much to leave her home. As a US citizen, I can come back to USA anytime but it will be difficult for her to return to Russia during the initial processes.

[decocker 7,198]

It is a bit insensitive, but on the opposite side, I've seen many Americans out to screw their spouse in a divorce. Probably women attempting to do so more than men. At least in my generation, a lot of women going through divorce seem to feel they're entitled to all the assets, they do not even view it as screwing their spouse, they think its their right. They normally get a big surprise in my state, as do the men that attempt to screw their soon to be ex-wives. If you do end up divorced, its good when it happens in a state with very fair laws.

as long as you know your individual experiences do not translate into a generational trend, this post isn't so much insensitive as it is meaningless projection.

in my individual experience, women get the complete financial shaft and carry on with providing for their children also left behind. not only have my peers been treated this way, but i have female family spanning three generations who spent their lives taking care of what their ex husbands would not.

generalizations concerning greed as an american vs foreign trait or even as women vs men, is pointless.

[Caryh 5,206]

I don't know how old you are, but my mother has crossed the 60 threshold. She was screwed by husband #1 and #2 in her divorces in the 1980s and late 1990s. I actually inherited an annuity that was supposed to be hers but my step-dad had fraudulent put under his name and no one caught it. I gave the money back to her of course. My British dad made her buy out half of the house even though he had never made a payment on it or paid any of the utilities (he preferred to buy new gadgets with his money). My mother and I lived in abject poverty for the first 5 years of my life as she tried to pay down the house, pay off his debts that he incurred during the marriage, and put food on the table. There were many times when my mother could only afford meat for me and the oil delivery guy would give us free deliveries or go threaten my biological father to pay up so we could have heat in the winter. My mother had to return all my Christmas gifts the year they got divorced because she couldn't afford food for the next month and if you know her, she has never frivolously spent a dime in her life.

Anyways, men screw women too. I just hate this idea that American women are more apt to go after a guy's money or try and mess with him in a divorce. I have just seen time and time again that not be the case that I don't even get where the stereotype comes from.

I'm 53 years old. When I started getting social again after going through separation and divorce, I joined a social divorce support group through meetup and made many friends going through the same thing, both men and women. And yes, as I said I saw many men also try to screw their ex's to, but it seemed to be the wives that were more likely to have unrealistic expectations of what they should get. Which certainly doesn't mean that men aren't that way to, they're just more likely to expect to be screwed by the divorce system, so generally have lower expectations. As to your mother having to buy out half the home, that is normal. If the home was purchased during the marriage, half the assets go to each. In my own state, if the home was owned previous to marriage, half of any increase in value goes to each spouse. In my own divorce, my ex hid her retirement accounts, to this day I have no idea how much she had. She got all the house assets and part of my retirement funds, which I did not hide. I could have forced her to disclose, but I just wanted the dang thing over with, and I was tired of her dragging out turning over documents. It took me over a year to get what I did get out of her. When we first started the divorce process, she was talking getting the house, half my retirement and alimony for life because I made more than her. She got more reasonable when she saw what the rules of our state was. But at first she thought she was entitled to damn near all the assets, while I should get all the debts, and I should pay her for a lifetime to because we started living together while I was going to college. BTW she moved into my apartment, which I paid for, as well as the utilities and half the food, as I was working to. These were expectations Hollywood and the media gave her.

In the divorcing social group, I saw many women with similar expectations of getting the assets, and leaving the debts to the husband. I also saw women screwed to, who did not protect themselves and signed agreements that were not in their best interest and were unbalanced. My state really does have fair laws, all assets accumulated during marriage are split equally. Premarital assets go to the individual parties'. Debts taken out by just one, do not count against assets. Debts taken out as a couple are split. Spousal support is only awarded if one spouse was not working and needed time to get back to work, and is awarded to a specific time period. As long as one party is not rolling over and signing what they shouldn't, they'll get a fair deal here now. It wasn't always the case though. I've seen some people fight and drag out a divorce for years, only to end up with the same basic split of assets and debts here. Both women and men have complained after in those cases, with men saying she never worked a day in her life, why should she get that, and women upset they didn't get the more assets and alimony for life they wanted, because he always will make more money than her can. In one case a very highly employed and high income woman was married to an out of work carpenter. She thought she should get everything, since she always made more money. He ended up with half the assets and 5 years of alimony to retrain and make himself more employable, and she had to pay his attorney fees because she needless dragged the process out for so long. She went through 4 different attorneys during the process because she didn't like them telling her she wasn't going to get it all and should settle.

As to what happened with your mother, I don't know if she signed an agreement she shouldn't have, or if there just isn't a good and fair divorce system where she lived. But where was the child support from your biological father?

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[Krikit 1,163]

But where was the child support from your biological father?

Quite honestly, this is a very intrusive personal question which has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP's question.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Krikit