Prenup agreement discussion

[InHisTime 110]

Whether its men or women or Filipinos or Americans, the fact is there are many scammers, liars, and gold diggers out there.

That's a fact.

Don't understand why you would call that into question.

Precisely, that was the issue I was trying to point out. Scammers are everywhere, it's all over the world.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

So now USC must adapt to foreign spouse culture instead? Where is the compromise?

The USC has to take the huge leap of faith to sign the I-864 too.. and get stuck with it even after divorce.

Both sides have to give and take.

As to protect one asset during a divorce, it also depends on which state you reside in.

Community Property v. Equitable Distribution.

[EminTX 131]

My husband and I talked about this a bit before our marriage. He "owns" family property there (his dad bought some homes and land and put them in each of his kids' names--it IS my husband's but he is reminded often that it is family property, not foreigner property) and I think they were concerned that perhaps I am interested in that. Pointing out to him that I already owned a home (that would be half his) and that neither of us has enough property to sneeze at and on top of that, if I died, no one in my family speaks Spanish or seems to have any inclination whatsoever to try to persue property rights in South America, well, it made no sense whatsoever.

Inviting my husband here means that he really did give up almost everything for me--his close family relationships, his career, his lifestyle there, his comfort zones, etc. The least I can do is trust him with my stuff. It is now all OUR stuff. There is no "mine" any more except my sewing machine--ha! Oh, and our pots and pans--we have different sets. But that is a different issue!

This is what Dave Ramsey has to say about it and it (short to read) and it makes a lot of sense--he is not totally pro or totally con--he lays out the black and white of the issues.

http://www.daveramsey.com/index.cfm?event=askdave/&intContentItemId=116768

[CaroSL 68]

That was a little insensitive. I don't know any American women who've screwed their husbands out of money, in fact I have only seen the opposite.

I guess us American women are just all money grubbers out to swindle out ex-husbands. *rolls eyes*

Nola, you don't imagine what can be on TV sometimes... They make reality shows out of this, then sell it abroad... and it contributes to a stereotype. Add Kim Kardashian to this... It is just stupid stereotypes, we all have our share.

But, more seriously, I agree, having prenups doesn't mean American woman are worse than others. It just means that it is a contract oriented culture in which divorce is quite common (in some countries it is very difficult to divorce (wichi is not bad pers say, I divorce is a wonderfull right and unhappy mariage that last forever are a shame)... I don't know about philipinnes, but maybe divorce is not common, so it is not admited that divorce is a commons risk and therefore there is no need for a contract, and contracts are seen as suspicious.

[raf.luv.leah 5]

The Philippine society is a very conservative one and almost all Filipinas would be offended with talk of a pre-nup. We don't even have divorce here! (Although, we have other avenues for separation after marriage such as annulment, which confuses me, but I digress.)

Yes, there are a lot of gold-digging, no-good, scamming women, but I daresay the chances are low if especially if she's a rural, low-income woman who can practice no more than basic English. I don't mean that in an offensive manner, because it may be construed as such, but the fact is, in our third-world country, we have a lot of women (especially from the provinces) who are simple and sweet and are wonderful cooks and child-rearers - such is their upbringing and lifestyle. They look for family men, foremost - husbands that can provide for them and their future children. There are some of them that find this in upstanding, well-off US citizens such as the OP, but rest assured, even if they found it in a Filipino would-be husband, they would still be extremely uncomfortable with any pre-nup talk. That's putting it lightly, a few may have violent, knee-jerk reactions as if you had brought up a taboo subject (which might honestly be something that they consider it as).

The main concern here is the perceived lack of trust - you can try to talk about how it would offer protection for the both of you, but it may not be enough to offset it. Yes, there are Filipinas with a more modern, open-minded perspective about it, but they would be few and far between.

TL;DR: Yes, it's definitely a cultural thing, and in my opinion, should not be considered a red flag. Good luck, OP!

[CaroSL 68]

So now USC must adapt to foreign spouse culture instead? Where is the compromise?

The USC has to take the huge leap of faith to sign the I-864 too.. and get stuck with it even after divorce.

Both sides have to give and take.

As to protect one asset during a divorce, it also depends on which state you reside in.

Community Property v. Equitable Distribution.

If signing the I-864 is a trust issue... then don't get married. Seriously, it means that the USC doesn't know the person enough. I think divorce is a totally different issue, because MANY things can happen. And it is not a matter of having one person marrying the other for money... It is just that divorce can get nasty and one can try to hurt the other with every possible way...

But if : 1) USC thinks that the foreign fiancé intention is jus ask for divorce after AOS or ROC... and keep being a fincancial charge to the USC... then don't get married!

2) if it is really a problem to help out someone who left his/her country for USC, left familly and friends behind, in the case it doesn't work out between the USC and that person... If it is even an issue, the USC should wonder if he is even in love...

I would be so upset if my fiancé was bringing this up... I am letting everything I have behind me to be with him. THIS requires trust. If it doesn't work, I'll be far from my friends, familly, I will have sacrifice a lot, to be alone in a country I don't know, possibly with no job, or a job less good than the one that I would have had home (because of language, diploma, etc)...

edit to add: Divorcing in your home country is life shaking. But you still have your life, your familly, chilhood and college friends, etc. Divorcing when you gave up your life for that marriage... imagine what it could feel like...

I think the I-864 is just as important a risk (or maybe not even) for the USC as leaving home is for the foreign fiancé. There is balance in this. Nothing to do with the pre-nup matter

Besides, this is not a question of who is right or wrong. This is just important that the OP gets the cultural keys to be able to communicate with his fiancée on the subject. However it ends, I hope it will feel like a win-win situation for them, cause this would probably be a better start for their mariage.

Edited February 4, 2013 by CaroSL

[Sandra G. 5,016]

darkangel1215 your remark is a bit offensive, there is no difference between a Filipina and American women! or between a Filipina and a Chinese,or Japanese, or Latina etc. We should not define someone's character because of their Nationality.

Steven-Gladys she is coming to live in the USa,she should start getting used to local costumes. The same way she doesn't have to change her believes to accept your culture, you should not change your believes to accept her culture as well. I think if she feels insulted because a pre nup she should work it out if she wants to be with you or find someone who thinks like her and vice versa.Good luck

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I would be so upset if my fiancé was bringing this up... I am letting everything I have behind me to be with him. THIS requires trust. If it doesn't work, I'll be far from my friends, familly, I will have sacrifice a lot, to be alone in a country I don't know, possibly with no job, or a job less good than the one that I would have had home (because of language, diploma, etc)... I think the I-864 is just as important a risk for the USC as leaving home is for the foreign fiancé. There is balance in this. Nothing to do with the pre-nup matter

Really? Being the USC who upped and moved to Denmark and left everything behind without any sort of financial guarantee, I don't see how it would be offensive. I made the choice to move to Denmark and hence I accept the consequences of not being able to find a real job, losing family and friends, and taking a huge economic hit. He is making the choice to move to America...so in my opinion, he should not be able to sue me for support as the I-864 allows, but it is what it is.

edit to add: Divorcing in your home country is life shaking. But you still have your life, your familly, chilhood and college friends, etc. Divorcing when you gave up your life for that marriage... imagine what it could feel like...

I thought my first divorce was a walk in the park - we even co-filed and happily walked hand in arm out of the court house after submitting the papers. He's an ####, but we get along just fine.

I've seen adults have amicable divorces, because that is what adults should do, but a pre-nup is just a little buffer for those who can't behave.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Nola123

[CaroSL 68]

Really? Being the USC who upped and moved to Denmark and left everything behind without any sort of financial guarantee, I don't see how it would be offensive. I made the choice to move to Denmark and hence I accept the consequences of not being able to find a real job, losing family and friends, and taking a huge economic hit. He is making the choice to move to America...so in my opinion, he should not be able to sue me for support as the I-864 allows, but it is what it is.

Well I certainly can't argue with this

But we cannot I-864 is a big risk and the foreign fiancé is taking none. This is just not true and you know it cause in your case you have been the foreigner (in Dnk). Moving is not a small decision.

Anyway, of course your case is very different from mine

[CaroSL 68]

I thought my first divorce was a walk in the park - we even co-filed and happily walked hand in arm out of the court house after submitting the papers. He's an ####, but we get along just fine.

I've seen adults have amicable divorces, because that is what adults should do, but a pre-nup is just a little buffer for those who can't behave.

Nola, I feel I have upset you... I am sorry, this is not what I meant.

I am totally for pre-nup, I am. But that is just not fair to say "I am staying home, my fiancé is going to totally change her/his life and habits and everything for me, but that is not a big risk, the big risk is that I sign the I-864..."

But every situation is different, and as your previous post highlighted it so well, it is not wise to generalise about who is taking more risk than the other. Anyway, it was not wise on my part to do that

So once again, I am really sorry because I didn't want to offend anyone. Really.

Edited February 4, 2013 by CaroSL

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Nola, I feel I have upset you... I am sorry, this is not what I meant.

I am totally for pre-nup, I am. But that is just not fair to say "I am staying home, my fiancé is going to totally change her/his life and habits and everything for me, but that is not a big risk, the big risk is that I sign the I-864..."

But every situation is different, and as your previous post highlighted it so well, it is not wise to generalise about who is taking more risk than the other. Anyway, it was not wise on my part to do that

So once again, I am really sorry because I didn't want to offend anyone. Really.

I'm hard to upset, don't worry! I was just pointing it out.

I think we all invest alot emotionally and financially in having an international relationship. It is so risky for everyone and so heartbreaking when it doesn't work after all that time and effort.

[CaroSL 68]

I'm hard to upset, don't worry! I was just pointing it out.

I think we all invest alot emotionally and financially in having an international relationship. It is so risky for everyone and so heartbreaking when it doesn't work after all that time and effort.

ok, good then. I totally agree...

Edited February 4, 2013 by CaroSL

[ico 1]

Well, wherever she is from she is marrying an american person, and moving in here, so she should be aware of how that is considered in the USA.

I am the one moving in, and having almost no money. That is why I felt I have to offer my husband a prenup. He rejected it and we don't have one, but if I would have been in his place I would have really liked the other person to offer the prenup, that is why I did it.

[Villanelle 4,121]

I think that the posts from other Filipinos explaining the culture and how prenups are not the norm are very very helpful in explaining why the OPs fiance took offense to it. BUT it doesnt explain her subsequent behavior of refusing to discuss it with him.

IMO thats a 'red flag' and the OP should re-evaluate his relationship. An important part of marriage is communication. In intercultural marriages theres going to be issues. If one partner has an attitude of- I refuse to discuss things- its not going to work.

Marriage is give and take. You have to compromise. If pre-nups arent the norm there and she finds it offensive, then either shes going to have to compromise on it or he will. But theyre never going to find out or reach a compromise if they dont communicate.

[Brandon and Sugar 8]

I agree with you, not all filipina will be happy about it. There are two kinds of filipina and there are two possible reasons.

First cos they will feel offended and feel that you don't love them, feel that all this time you see her same as the other girls who only married the foreign guy cos of money not because of love.

Secondly, SOME Filipina will flip out not because they got offended but because of the fear that they won't get anything from their husband. I can honestly say that a lot of Filipina are gold diggers and social climbers but NOT ALL of them.

Like me, I don't mind if my husband and I get a prenup stating I will not have anything even a cent from him as long as he will send me back to PH and have him support our child/children. This is just an example cos WE WILL NOT divorce lol. It is only natural for any woman to flip out or be angry in her first reaction cos she's offended, hurt and feel like not loved, betrayed and not being trusted by her husband. I suggest you just give her some time like a day or two to contemplate on the situation, she might change her mind soon and no longer be upset about it. I am like that, but if not uhmm..it's the other way around, maybe she's upset cos she's worried she will not get anything from you. It's up to you