Naturalized mum, UK kids

[Ffreddie 0]

Thanks Glynn. I did reside in the US for 5 years but can't proove it - I only worked some of that time, and my old boss says he doesn't remember me. I was about 15 years ago that I left. I have tried every which way, even getting letters from a minister, but the embassy wouldn't accept that. They wanted my old passpoert to show entry and exit dates but unfortunately I no longer have it.

I am just trying to find out, if I went to the US, say on Holiday, or even 'emigrated' back, what would be the situation for my kids. I have heard of families being detained at customs on the way home because the kids didn't have a US passport when a parent was a USC.

[Ffreddie 0]

OP.....I found this

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/ChildCitizenshipAct_022701.pdf

Hope it helps.

Very helpful!! Thanks so much!

[Glyn and Kathy 288]

That would be my concern too. It says if your physically there its not a problem...but if there not already there....how do you get them in legally? I guess I would consult an immigration attorney.

Good luck!

[Ffreddie 0]

That would be my concern too. It says if your physically there its not a problem...but if there not already there....how do you get them in legally? I guess I would consult an immigration attorney.

Good luck!

Was hoping to get some answers on here rather than consult an attorney due to cost...

[ceadsearc 516]

Perhaps ask on immigrate2us.net. VJ cases are mostly simple, do-it-yourself cases. You have a complicated case. If you left at 15, though, it does not sound like you had 2 full years of in the US after the age of 14 so your children may not be eligible anyway.

Additionally, it's against VJ TOS to advise someone on how to do something illegal, so no one is going to tell you how to get your kids here unless there is a legal answer that doesn't involve effectively abducting them.

I am a mother as well so I understand doing anything for your kids, but it simply may not be an option to get them to the US at this time and you may need to look into other places you can go to keep them safe until you can see a judge.

Do they have a UK passport or no passport at all?

[jhm3 15]

Looking at the information on the Child Citizenship Act in the USCIS links posted above (and re-posted below) and in the State Department link posted below, it looks to me like acquiring citizenship for the children of a US citizen living abroad is not as simple as just having the children enter the United States.

Indeed, if the children regularly reside abroad, the US citizen parent (or, the US citizen parent's US citizen parent; i.e., the child's US citizen grandparent) would have to meet the same U.S. physical presence requirements necessary to transmit citizenship at birth (i.e., 5 years, with 2 years after age 14), and then an application for a Certificate of Citizenship would have to be filed for the child in the United States. (In practice, it seems this provision basically benefits adopted children and the grandchildren of a US citizen grandparent whose US citizen parent failed to meet the physical presence requirement to transmit citizenship for whatever reason, since the biological children of US citizen parents who do meet the physical presence requirement would be citizens at birth anyway.)

Now, if the children reside (or are taking up residence) in the United States, there does not seem to be a physical presence requirement for the US citizen parent, nor is it even required that an application for a Certificate of Citizenship be filed, but the children do have to enter the United States as lawful permanent residents (i.e., with an immigrant visa) and be in the legal and physical custody of the US citizen parent.

I don't claim to know a thing about custody issues or how they are handled in these situations, but I am inclined to doubt that an immigrant visa would be issued to minors without both parents' involvement in the process. And I don't know if the "legal and physical custody" requirement means that the children would have to be in the *sole* custody of the US citizen parent. Probably not, but if the other parent wasn't involved, there could be questions or problems, I imagine.

Also, getting an immigrant visa issued could be tricky if the US citizen parent doesn't have a US domicile from which to file the Affidavit of Support required along with the immigrant visa petition and if it hasn't been definitively determined that the children *aren't* US citizens by birth (though if the Embassy has turned down the OP's request for documentation of citizenship for her children, perhaps that is sufficient).

Since the OP says she did in fact spend the required five years in the US prior to the birth of her kids, the ideal thing would be if that could be proven somehow. I know she has tried and that her time in the US was a while back now, but since she naturalized, might there be a record of her physical presence on file somewhere in connection with her naturalization application? Would there be Social Security records of her contributions during those years if she was working?

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1312.html

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Ok, thank you everyone for your concern about my private life - For your information I do already have a handle on that and merely added a PS looking for an easier way around IF anyone knew of one. I would be grateful if no further messages about the morality or legality of removing my kids from harm were posted.

If you have any information on whether if I went to the USA, the kids would be considered US citizens the minute they crossed the border, and if this is so, would I be able to go and get them a US passport while we're there, I would love to hear it.

The requirements for the kids to gain citizenship automatically when entering the US are:

1. At least one parent of the child is a citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization.

2. The child is under the age of eighteen years.

3. The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence.

The bolded part in item 3 is the kicker. They must be admitted for permanent residence. They won't become US citizens automatically if they simply enter the US under the VWP or with any other sort of non-immigrant visa. It would be possible for them to adjust status after entering the US, which accomplishes their admission for permanent residence. However, most non-immigrant entry passes prohibit entering the US with the intention to become an immigrant. If they entered using the VWP and subsequently applied for adjustment of status, and if that adjustment of status were denied, then they wouldn't be able to appeal the decision. People who use the VWP are required to waive their right to appeal any decision by an immigration officer as a precondition of using the VWP.

The upside of this approach is that you, the US citizen parent, are only required to be residing in the United States. The five years of physical presence doesn't apply. The downside is that you'd be using a non-immigrant entry with the "preconceived intent" to immigrate, which is illegal. That factor alone is not enough to deny adjustment of status for an immediate relative of a US citizen, but it does give them significant ammunition to search for a more compelling reason to deny. That said, many immigration lawyers would advise you to use this approach in spite of the apparent conflict with the law. This is because many immigration lawyers look for what method will work, rather than what method is legal and ethical.

If the kids adjust status then they will have met the requirements under section 320 of the INA, and they'll be US citizens. At that point you could apply for US passports, or submit an N-600K for a certificate of citizenship. Either method usually requires either permission from both parents, or proof of sole guardianship and custody.

[aaron2020 11,651]

In order for the kids to obtain US citizenship when entering the US, they must be admitted as Immigrants (i.e. have LPR status). And, it will be impossible for you to obtain immigrant visas for them without their father's consent or a UK court order.

Arriving in the US in the VWP or non-immigrant visas will not get them US citizenship.

----------------

While you have made itclear you don't want to discuss international parental kidnapping, you are seriously sticking your head in the sands.

Even if you make it to America and the kids gets US citizenship (by some miracle), you will be arrested once the father files a complaint. Your kids will be put into protective custody and flown back to the UK to their father.

How are you going to protect them from jail? How does giving the father ammunition against you in a future custody battle going to help them?

Instead if running away and kidnapping them, you should contact UK agencies who can help with an abusive husband and father?

What you are contemplatingrid really going to end badly for you and the children.

Edited February 27, 2012 by aaron2020

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Just a word of caution on making an international dash away from the kids' father...

This is equal to international kidnapping and part of why USCIS specifically requires consent of the other parent if a child is immigrating with only 1 parent.

You really do need to seek legal advise in the UK before you do anything to make your situation much worse (like you sitting in jail with felony charges and the kids returned to your husband with him now having the upper hand in any custody proceedings).

[aaron2020 11,651]

By the way, no one is making an moral judgment about your situation. There is no excuse for domestic violence. If I had a violent partner, I would do whatever was necessary to protect my kids. However, there are options that can make your situation better and options that can make your situation worse.

The information about international parental kidnapping is out there. Google how much efforts the US government puts into finding US children abducted by their non-US parents. In order to get cooperation on returning US kids, the US must cooperate when a UK kid is abducted by a US parent.

http://travel.state.gov/abduction/abduction_580.html

http://travel.state.gov/abduction/country/country_533.html

The VisaJourney community is here to help you. Make whatever choice you think is necessary to protect yourself and the kids. And please do think about your varied options before making a choice that puts you and the kids on a very bad path. Good luck.

Edited February 27, 2012 by aaron2020

[Boiler 43,600]

Mother-of-three loses extradition appeal bid

A mother-of-three who fled to England from America with her three children after her marriage broke down 14 years ago has lost her High Court bid to avoid extradition to face kidnap charges.

Eileen Clark with her two sons Chandler and Hayden Photo: WILL WINTERCROSS

12:30PM GMT 23 Feb 2012

Lawyers for Eileen Clark, 54, claimed she had been living openly in the UK since December 1998 and that the first she knew that she was being sought in America was when she was named by the FBI on a "most wanted" list.

Judges at the High Court were told it would be "oppressive" to extradite her because of worsening psychiatric problems and her fear of flying.

Her lawyers also criticised US authorities for not seeking her return earlier as she had put down "deep roots" in the UK.

She was supported by a former husband Ron Woolsey and her children Chandler , 24, Hayden, 22, and Rebekah, 19.

The former model and aerobics teacher had left her New Mexico home in 1998 a year after her divorce from the children's father and her first husband John Clark, and moved to Oxford with the children even though they had joint custody.

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The court was told it was an unhappy marriage, but that after she left her ex husband launched court proceedings against her.

But she was accused by the US of of "custodial interference " and "international parental kidnapping" and following a request for her return was arrested by the Metropolitan Police in July 2010. Her children were labelled "endangered adults."

Although the children, all students in this country, have spoken to US authorities to say they are safe and want to stay in the UK with their mother, the US has demanded her return to face the charges.

Now, Lord Justice Stanley Burnton sitting with Mr Justice Underhill has upheld the granting of an extradition order by District Judge Riddle at Westminster Magistrates Court in March last year who said. The decision was backed by the Home Secretary in May.

In dismissing her appeal Mr. Justice Underhill said: "We accept there will be hardship for the appellant if she is returned to the US to stand trial , but we do not believe that hardship can properly be characterised as oppressive."

Now Mrs Clark has just 14 days to seek to appeal to the Supreme Court . If that fails she could be on a plane to America 28 days later under the controversial US-UK extradition treaty.

[Xanax 349]

Ok, thank you everyone for your concern about my private life - For your information I do already have a handle on that and merely added a PS looking for an easier way around IF anyone knew of one. I would be grateful if no further messages about the morality or legality of removing my kids from harm were posted.

If you have any information on whether if I went to the USA, the kids would be considered US citizens the minute they crossed the border, and if this is so, would I be able to go and get them a US passport while we're there, I would love to hear it.

It seems Ffreddie believes she is not doing anything wrong and she is not trying to do anything illegal. I guess we just give her ask much information as we can on how to get her kids passports / citizenship if that is possible (the legal way) and give her the benefit of the doubt.

If Ffreddie is perhaps doing something illegal then we as a community have provided her with the forewarning and information which she can choose to heed or ignore.

Edited February 28, 2012 by BrittandDan

[Louised 11]

Hi, I'm looking to get US citizenship as my Father is an American...should be simple enough, but I will also have the problem of my children being born in the UK, as I have never lived in the States they cannot get citizenship through me. I was told that they need to be sponsored (by my Dad hopefully) and they become citizens once we've landed...not sure how true this is...Hope things work out for you x x

[Boiler 43,600]

Generally speaking you can not sponsor grandchildren.

[Gigli2008 70]

Thanks Glynn. I did reside in the US for 5 years but can't proove it - I only worked some of that time, and my old boss says he doesn't remember me. I was about 15 years ago that I left. I have tried every which way, even getting letters from a minister, but the embassy wouldn't accept that. They wanted my old passpoert to show entry and exit dates but unfortunately I no longer have it.

I am just trying to find out, if I went to the US, say on Holiday, or even 'emigrated' back, what would be the situation for my kids. I have heard of families being detained at customs on the way home because the kids didn't have a US passport when a parent was a USC.

If you resided in the US for 5 years, did you work? And if you did, did you file your taxes on time every year? If you did, shouldn't this be proof enough? Just guessing, I don't know for sure. Anyone?