married before entering on K-1

[HeatDeath 430]

[standard Material Misrepresentation Speech, Variant 2a: Marrying before PoE on a K-1]

If she gets a K-1, and tries to enter the US on it, she will be asked by the CBP officers if she is legally free to marry. If she cannot give them a confident, sincere, honest "I am not married, and am therefore free to marry", they will cancel her K-1 visa and send her right back home.

Worse, if she says she is free to marry, but the CBP officers find a nikah in her baggage, they will banhammer [i love that word! ] her for material misrepresentation and slap a multi-year-to-life ban on reentering the US on her, on top of refusing her entry!

Even if she sneaks through successfully, during AOS she will need to send a marriage certifcate or nikah and her I-94 to USCIS to get her GC. If the marriage certificate or nikah is from outside the US, and/or it predates her I-9,4 she will [again!] get denied AOS and sent home with a multi-year-to-life ban.

And even if she sneaks through AOS somehow, she will be vulnerable, for at least the next decade, and quite possibly the rest of her life, to USCIS turning up the misrepresentation, revoking her citizenship if she has received it by then, and sending her home with a multi-year-to-life ban. [Are you seeing the pattern here?]

Material misrepresentation is like a cancer in your immigration file. Even if you get away with it at the moment, it can flare up years later and destroy all the progress you've made to that point - even US citizenship! [You can lie to yourself, if you want. You can even lie to her family, if feel you have to. But lying to the US government about immigration will buy you nothing but a world of worry and hurt!]

Edited August 9, 2011 by HeatDeath

[No-Where-Man 147]

I was not talking about USCIS, I was talking about him getting power of attorney, Egypt laws and family traditions, and as of USCIS I made it clear on my very first post never to lie or make any kind of misrepresentations.

There is a better way to express your opinion rather than making an assumption.

Enough said.

Did you read what I wrote? In USCIS's eyes, a proxy marriage is NOT a legal marriage until it has been consummated, no matter if it was legal in the country where it was performed. If someone petitions for a proxy marriage and has not seen their spouse since the marriage, they will be denied for a visa because they do not have a valid marriage for USCIS.

[hnubno 9]

i agree that you should just get married when you are there (and not by proxy), collect as many evidence as you can while you two are together, and come back and file cr1.

i have to say that i do believe his fiance's family won't allow her to live with him unless they are married. some cultures really won't allow their daughters/sisters to live with a man until she is married to him. it's difficult for people in america to see why that could be a problem but it's a norm/cultural thing. i think vj-er in here just have to understand that..

[sara..... 371]

Right, I see. But if there is 1% of chance? I hope OP think twice before doing anything that could ruin all of his chances to be with the one he loves. By the way, when he started this K1 process, he had to tell the family, if so... didn't they agree with the process, were they aware she would have to get legally married in the U.S?

Anyway, good luck.

until the op tells us how the k1 came about its impossible to try to guess......but from what i have read it seems they thought the spiritual ceremony would get past what is tabu for girls.......i myself am Muslim been raised in the USA well most of it and my parents would never allow me to go to any country alone to live with a man that i was not married to if the family agrees i would be shocked as its a better chance that all the world will end their boarders than allowing a Muslim girl to come to the USA to live with her fiance with out marriage.

sara

[HeatDeath 430]

My brother married a Muslim girl in Canada. They had to get a nikah before there was any possibility of them moving in together. They didn't get a western, official "wedding" at city hall until months later. My brother downplayed significance of the nikah to my (white, middle class) parents, describing it as more of an engagement contract, but both of us, and her family, know that they were fully married in her parent's eyes the instant the nikah was signed, or she'd never have been allowed (or even wanted, in all likelihood) to move in with him.

In a country like Canada, the nikah is a religious artifact of no official significance (in most jurisdictions) unless it's backed up by a secular marriage certificate. In a Muslim country, OTOH, the nikah IS the marriage certificate, and is every bit as legally binding as any western marriage certificate. The US consulates in Muslim countries understand and respect this, hence the problems the OP is having.

Edited August 9, 2011 by HeatDeath

[Kathryn41 3,205]

One blank post and one inappropriate comment have been removed. Please remember, the OP has asked for advice about the proper course of action, not for your judgment and not for your insults. Please read over the circumstances of his situation clearly before responding, as inaccurate information is also not helpful.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

if I was to get married in the UK and not hand in the wedding certificate to the registrars office, does that mean I'm not married? Erm NO it doesn't!!

Because I got married in the USA and cant hand in my marriage certificate to the UK government to be registered does that mean I'm not technically married in the UK? Nope still legally married here in the UK as well as USA.

The way I see it you have 2 choices, carry on with the K1 and get married in the USA after you have received the visa and then go to her home country and have another wedding.

or

Cancel the K1 and go to her home country, get married and file for a CR1.

No one on here is going to/should encourage you to break or bend the law. It's on your own head if you lie about things but you and your future spouse has to be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

Actually, if you don't register the fact that you got married (in the place in which you got married) then no, you're not married. Unless the legal paperwork is done then it's not legal. If you don't sign the certificate it's not legal, if you "forget" to hand in the certificate then it's a bit iffy. I believe there's a deadline to file it (not just sign, FILE it).. but this could be state dependent.

Using the different country example if you are LEGALLY married in another country it counts in every other country. In your example above you wouldn't be "legally" married in the place you got married so it basically never happened and therefore you are not married anywhere else.

It is quite okay to go through the marriage ceremony then it comes time to sign and you're all "umm no I don't want to". Okay well then you're not legally married. You simply said the words, that's not enough (in most places.... I remember reading there's a country where if you say "I divorce you" three times to your wife you're divorced.. can't remember where though).

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I was not talking about USCIS, I was talking about him getting power of attorney, Egypt laws and family traditions, and as of USCIS I made it clear on my very first post never to lie or make any kind of misrepresentations.

There is a better way to express your opinion rather than making an assumption.

Enough said.

While I appreciate what you're saying, the OP is asking about immigration and marriage if you were in fact only talking about Egypt (and not involving USCIS) then your post was basically pointless as I agree with Harpa in that it implied that the OP would be all well and good getting the POA and getting married by proxy and filing CR-1 based on that. The truth is the OP would not.

The OP was looking for ways to get married ASAP and file the CR-1 now, as opposed to simply waiting until the wedding in September. Telling the OP what Egypt allows is all well and good, but if USCIS won't accept it then what's the point of what Egypt allows? The OP may as well just wait till they're there in a little over a month and marry in person and THEN file the CR-1. That way the wedding is legal in USCIS's eyes, and the OP can file the CR-1 and everything will be fine.

----

OP. Cancel the K1 and send a notice with it that you're planning on getting married and filing a CR-1 (so there are no questions about why you cancelled it). Then prepare all the documents for the CR-1 and once you receive the marriage certificate (after your legal in-person wedding) then you can file the CR-1. It has added a couple of months to your waiting time, but it is the safest way to go. Plus your soon-to-be wife will get a GC on entry and be able to work and travel immediately if required. Definitely helps with the integration.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Vanessa&Tony

[Casprd 167]

Proxy marriage is not a valid or petitionable marriage until it is consummated (ie the people have been in the same place together).

Absolutely not true. Many states in the US already recognize proxy marriages and there is no consumation requirement. The only time that would be an issue would be when trying to get divorced in which case it would be an annulment rather than a divorce. USCIS also recognizes proxy marriages and in several recent cases involving beneficiaries in Russia and the Ukraine it has been an acceptable option. You can search the threads and find these. As far as the people being in the same place, only a K-1 visa requires that they have actually met in the past 2 years. To my knowledge a CR-1/IR-1 visa doesn't require this meaning the couple could have met years ago. One of the requirements for a CR-1/IR-1 is as follows.

3.The marriage between the U.S. citizen and foreign spouse must be valid, meaning that they have met all requirements to have a valid marriage in the country/jurisdiction where they married, and were not subject to any impediment (such as a non-terminated prior marriage) to their ability to marry at that time.

If a proxy marriage is legally binding in Egypt then it is acceptable to USCIS. Obviously coming from a MENA country there will be serious red flags with this to overcome but your statement is still incorrect.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

In an officially Muslim country, under shariah, a nikah is a fully legal, fully binding marriage certificate. Period, full-stop, end-of-story. If it's filled out and signed, the couple is married, and the US consulate will see it that way, regardless of whether the local government has been informed or not.

I wonder if it would be possible to do a ceremonial marriage, followed by a ceremonial divorce (without telling her parents, obviously) prior to PoE. She could then honestly tell the PoE she is not married, and you two could do another nikah and courthouse legal wedding in the US.

This is just brainstorming though. I sincerely doubt any devout Muslim woman would ever willingly undergo a secret ceremonial divorce and later remarriage.

Nah the divorce and re-marriage would still mean she was married and divorced after getting the K1. The marriage (to anyone) voids the K1. If she were to AOS she would have to list the marriage and divorce. USCIS would see that she was married and divorced after the K1 was filed and deny her on those grounds.. UNLESS she was married and divorced before the visa was filed and listed that on the K1 Visa documents (the ones from P3).. then it's possible but still unlikely.

[Andy and Kayla 45]

Don't feed the trolls, y'all.

[Dave and Kinnari 31]

Wait 8-9 months for a CR-1 visa process done LEGALLY or live in fear every second of your lives waiting for IBP/HLS to come banging on your door.

Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Edited August 10, 2011 by Dave and Kinnari

[GrayL 47]

Hmmm, I think you're going to have issues, if you're married, legally you're not entitled to a K-1, to put it simply.

You're skating on a thin ice rink if you decide not to disclose.

At your final interview for the K-1 they will ask you straight out;

"Are you currently unmarried"

"Is your fiance/fiancee currently unmarried"

"Is this your first marriage"

You sign an oath on official forms right in front of the CO stating what you write and what you tell the COs (and what you have previously submitted) is the truth to the best of your knowledge.

Also when you enter the US you have to get married within 90 days. You also need to send them married certificates before you can adjust your status.

I don't recommend you proceed, it's simply illegal, chances are you'll get caught sooner or later.

I personally wouldn't dream of lying or misleading the US government, end of story.

You should withdraw the K-1 and go for the correct VISA.

Gray

Edited August 10, 2011 by GrayL

[fazmo 24]

I have been reading all the answers but I believe answering this question requires some understanding of what marriage is considered in religious terms (Islam, in this case) and the immigration law. There is absolutely no problem for you to make a nikah while applying for or holding a K-1 visa. In Immigration law, marriage is valid if it is valid in the place where the marriage took place. The marriage MUST be registered in the appropriate authorities in order to be deemed legal under immigration law. A nikah is not a marriage unless it is conducted by the appropriate authority AND fully registered. However, in Sharia law, anyone with knowledge of Islamic marriage law can perform the nikah - even if you pull him from the street. All the family wants is to let their daughter go with her husband (In Sharia law terms, not in family law terms). A member of her family or a sheikh from the local mosque can perform the nikah and it will not be deemed legal under the Egyptian law or US immigration law. I have seen a fellow member saying that Muslim countries recognize nikah as a legal marriage. That is not true at all. What he/she may got confused is that the authorized marriage court or registry can retroactively validate a nikah as a legal marriage if the required witnesses attest a nikah has taken place. It is very confusing to some, I know, but such marriage was not legal under the family law before it was validated by the proper authority. The fact that it was validated retroactively (back to the date when the witnesses attested the nikah took place) does not mean it was legal before the validation. This is very interesting because once a nikah is validated retroactively, you can use it to seek US immigration benefits because it is legal from that point on. If you don't want to validate your nikah retroactively, you just say so and the family court or the civil registry will just register your marriage effective that day.

These are the points:

- Under US immigration law, a marriage must be legal in the place where it took place. It must be registered in the appropriate authority as per the government of that country.

- A nikah is not a legal marriage in US (and in any country for that matter) unless it is properly performed and registered by an authority duly authorized by the local government.

Therefore, it is perfectly fine that you go ahead with the nikah arrangement with her family. You just make sure that it is neither performed by an authorized judge nor registered with the civil registry. In western society, it is like an engagement - although it weighs more when looked from the religious perspective. In Islam, two are duly married when the man accepts the nikah offer. Consulates in predominantly Muslim countries know about local traditions and therefore know what nikah is. You can tell them in the face that you have performed nikah and it won't change anything because you still need to be legally married. It is neither fraud nor lie to answer "NO" if you are asked whether you are married. They are asking whether you are legally married - not whether you are married in Islamic terms. In fact, you have to answer "NO" to such questions until your marriage is duly registered.

Proxy marriage is never advisable by the way. It is a gamble when it comes to seeking immigration.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Absolutely not true. Many states in the US already recognize proxy marriages and there is no consumation requirement. The only time that would be an issue would be when trying to get divorced in which case it would be an annulment rather than a divorce. USCIS also recognizes proxy marriages and in several recent cases involving beneficiaries in Russia and the Ukraine it has been an acceptable option. You can search the threads and find these. As far as the people being in the same place, only a K-1 visa requires that they have actually met in the past 2 years. To my knowledge a CR-1/IR-1 visa doesn't require this meaning the couple could have met years ago. One of the requirements for a CR-1/IR-1 is as follows.

3.The marriage between the U.S. citizen and foreign spouse must be valid, meaning that they have met all requirements to have a valid marriage in the country/jurisdiction where they married, and were not subject to any impediment (such as a non-terminated prior marriage) to their ability to marry at that time.

If a proxy marriage is legally binding in Egypt then it is acceptable to USCIS. Obviously coming from a MENA country there will be serious red flags with this to overcome but your statement is still incorrect.

This is incorrect. If you search threads you will find lots of stories of denials with proxy marriages. Even with consummation later it can be very tricky. Without consummation it is not valid for USCIS at all. Please see here on the I-130 instructions themselves.

Under "Who May NOT File I-130" you will see

"4. A husband or wife, if you or your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage, and the marriage was not consummated."

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-130instr.pdf

see page 2

Edited August 10, 2011 by Harpa Timsah