To lie about sordid details?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

The sordid thing is that i met my fiancee on a porn site, Streammate. She used to chat with guys and do private shows. We have decided to marry. We have made up our minds, so i am not asking for advice about that. Question is, should we lie on the K1 application and when she goes to her interview? We could make it vague, but what if they ask detailed questions during the interview? We did not break any laws and it was not a marriage broker site. We have good evidence for the relationship.

Anyone else met this way, pls PM me.

Should I get a lawyer before we file K1?

Thx

Ummm. Before I can give an educated opinion, you'll need to send me copies of your pre-engagement chat logs. All of 'em. Don't forget to include the screen caps, as well.

BOBBY...where have you been???????????? Did you bring your lovely bride back with you?

Oh, I see, I looked at your timeline. Well congratulations and now I know where you have been...BUSY!

[baron555 934]

My wife's G-325a said "Fgrimini , Kiev Ukraine...Customer Service"

Anyone care to tell me what she did?

"Fgrimini , Kiev Ukraine...Customer Service"

Anyone care to tell me what she did?

Well I'll take a guess. Fgrimini is probably Ukrainian slang for Give it to Me. She was a Dominatrix.

Dressed in tight black vinyl, 6 inch stilletos, she says. "VooooWhaaat" and crack goes the whip!!!! I know you love that!!!!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

The sordid thing is that i met my fiancee on a porn site, Streammate. She used to chat with guys and do private shows. We have decided to marry. We have made up our minds, so i am not asking for advice about that. Question is, should we lie on the K1 application and when she goes to her interview? We could make it vague, but what if they ask detailed questions during the interview? We did not break any laws and it was not a marriage broker site. We have good evidence for the relationship.

Anyone else met this way, pls PM me.

Should I get a lawyer before we file K1?

Thx

I don't know what the embassy requirements are in the Czech Republic for police records for the beneficiary but if there are I'd have her get a police report to make sure she hasn't been arrested for something else.

Posing hypothetical questions is ridiculous. "Do I know for certain that MOSCOW will not consider this prostitution...?" YES. This is not prostituion under Russian law, in fact Russian law on the matter is very vague and for years they had NO laws regarding prostitution at all. Officially it "did not exist" in Russia and there was no need to outlaw that which didn't exist. No, I am not joking. And I get that information from living in the FSU and not from hanging around VJ posting boards. I cannot imagine any Russian (or Ukrainian for that matter) police officer enforcing any such law if there was one, other than to extract a bribe from the prostitute, so there would be no arrest, no conviction, no record.

This is not HCMC or CasaBlanca or Lagos, it is Moscow. Moscow is not a particularly difficult consulate, it is not a high fraud country, they have no particular artificial morals they apply to people (which no one follows) and FSU men and women have a remarkably refreshing, realistic, view of the world in general and men and women in particular, and accept as "natural and normal" that which other societies gasp (theatrically) at.

I also know for certain he has no choice but to describe the way they met (actually he only needs to describe how they met IN PERSON) Her occupation is (likely) self employed. If not, he only needs to list the name and address of the employer by city and country. My wife's G-325a said "Fgrimini , Kiev Ukraine...Customer Service" Anyone care to tell me what she did? She could be a translator and customer liason (she was) or a prostitute (at least I don't think so) Yeah, right, your guess is as good as theirs and no one ever asked either. Job descriptions are not needed and she has no police record (presumably). She will have to produce a police certificate showing no convictions. If she has criminal convictions that is a another matter, not related to her job when he met her.

All the hand-wringers and worry warts can relax. Unless you are suggesting he LIE then he has no choice but to present the TRUTH in the best way possible and move ahead. The same as all of us. But I guess it is something else for someone to debate and worry about. Next question....

How many ghosts can dance on the head of a pin? The consulate in Moscow will have about as much interest in this.

Oops. it is Prague. OK, same advice...more so. Prague would be even less likely to cosnider it something bad. I love Prague. Gotta get there soon.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Is there anybody here on this thread who can say with 100% accuracy that this "profession" would not be regarded at the Consular level as prostitution?

I can't. And I've been hanging around here for almost five years. It's my opinion this issue is potentially too critical for any of us to simply advise "careful wording" at the interview and when completing documents.

This is probably a subject better studied at the Consular level - meaning the petitioner and beneficiary should be sussing out how this subject is "viewed" by consular officers at their specific consulate.

Although the consulate has quite a bit of leeway on some things, I doubt if they could redefine prostitution and apply it to jobs that don't involve any form of sexual contact in exchange for money.

I think it is a valid point that a consulate could consider her profession a red flag and there are probably a high proportion of scammers among women who meet foreign men this way (not a reference to OPs case. I don't know that girl). They certainly might take a very long, hard look at the case because of her profession. They probably take a long, hard look at those chat logs too!

So, it doesn't meet the definition of prostitution but it could certainly meet the definition of red flag. Were I in the OPs shoes, I'd just be thinking that it could be a big red flag and I'd try to be sure I was presenting plenty of evidence of a "normal" solid relationship. Chats that aren't porn-site related, plenty of time together, lots of picture with her family (with the fiancee NOT wearing her work clothes )

...and maybe self-employed internet viewee would be a neutral description of her job

[Applying4K1Visa 0]

Here is the OP! Wow, look at all these responses in one day. Thanks to all. No, I did not take anything in there as a personal attack, and I didn't really understand that discussion thread. No, there was nothing against the law in her country, and as far as I know she doesn't have any criminal record. I like the idea that we keep it generic unless pressed for details and then she can blush! lol. No, you may not examine the chatlogs or screenshots for evidence, and we will not submit those with the application either! No, I was not "busy" in an internet chatroom today, I have my own camgirl now! 23 hours before I came back to post, that is not so "friggin amazing" to me, I have a job. Thanks again for all the good advice. Still haven't decided whether to talk to an immigration attorney before we file.

[Kittyfang 6]

Here is the OP! Wow, look at all these responses in one day. Thanks to all. No, I did not take anything in there as a personal attack, and I didn't really understand that discussion thread. No, there was nothing against the law in her country, and as far as I know she doesn't have any criminal record. I like the idea that we keep it generic unless pressed for details and then she can blush! lol. No, you may not examine the chatlogs or screenshots for evidence, and we will not submit those with the application either! No, I was not "busy" in an internet chatroom today, I have my own camgirl now! 23 hours before I came back to post, that is not so "friggin amazing" to me, I have a job. Thanks again for all the good advice. Still haven't decided whether to talk to an immigration attorney before we file.

Awesome, glad we could help ya. Also, no one said "friggin amazing" I just said "amazing".

Good luck to you guys. I hope you keep us posted on what happens.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

With a quick search I've only found one porn actress who was been denied a visa - Ilona Staller and it was for a criminal record not pornography.

Edited October 9, 2009 by lancer1655

[rebeccajo 14]

Just because it was brought up.........whether or not something is regarded as a crime in the beneficiaries country is a moot point.

The beneficiary is applying for a visa to come to the US. The US government will set the bars as to what is "criminal" or not.

How do I know this? Because in the United Kingdom, many crimes are considered "spent" after a certain length of time. It's called the "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act" and the offenses drop off the persons records. The US consulate in London doesn't give a damn about the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

[Road 2 Peace Arch 0]

Here is the OP! Wow, look at all these responses in one day. Thanks to all. No, I did not take anything in there as a personal attack, and I didn't really understand that discussion thread. No, there was nothing against the law in her country, and as far as I know she doesn't have any criminal record. I like the idea that we keep it generic unless pressed for details and then she can blush! lol. No, you may not examine the chatlogs or screenshots for evidence, and we will not submit those with the application either! No, I was not "busy" in an internet chatroom today, I have my own camgirl now! 23 hours before I came back to post, that is not so "friggin amazing" to me, I have a job. Thanks again for all the good advice. Still haven't decided whether to talk to an immigration attorney before we file.

Perfect, she's probably got no record, no wants or warrants in her home country. Keep it generic, honest but concise, don’t cop out to anything ahead of time. Don’t lie, no matter what..

Trust me, the US Embassy's and US Consulate’s that are spread out in the world have neither have the resources or time to drain the petitions, Visa apps et al and chase down every item listed on them much less conduct a full scope background check beyond what's available to them locally (a cursory police check within that country) and what available to them from within the US. Similar to law enforcement, people are usually their own worst enemies in blabbing about too much either on forms, interviews or polygraphs.

It's very interesting to see how an Embassy or Consulate actually works in a particular country, to get to know the Department of State folks that staff them and to see the people that visit the Embassy for Visa's and other things. The US folks that staff these Embassies and Consulates are pretty first rate, doesn’t mean that their aren’t exceptions but for the most part-first rate. Same for the local staffers, for the most part. In any case, they don’t have the time and resources to chase down all the minutia about your fiancée. So, no worries.

You DO NOT need a lawyer!

[JimVaPhuong 4,865]

Just because it was brought up.........whether or not something is regarded as a crime in the beneficiaries country is a moot point.

The beneficiary is applying for a visa to come to the US. The US government will set the bars as to what is "criminal" or not.

How do I know this? Because in the United Kingdom, many crimes are considered "spent" after a certain length of time. It's called the "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act" and the offenses drop off the persons records. The US consulate in London doesn't give a damn about the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

It's the same with crimes committed in the US. Many states have a system called "deferred adjudication", where a crime is automatically erased from the criminal record if the convicted person successfully completes their term of probation without getting into any additional trouble. In other cases, you can usually request the record be expunged if a period of time has elapsed without any further convictions.

USCIS doesn't care about this. If the question is "have you ever been convicted" then they don't care if your record is now clean. Unfortunately, having your record cleared at the court where the conviction was handed down does not automatically erase the records in all government agencies that maintain such records, like the FBI and other less well known 3 letter agencies. A person might answer an immigration related question with "No, I've never been convicted", thinking they're safe because their record was supposedly cleared, only to discover that a record DOES exist of their original conviction, and USCIS has found it.

Dealing with USCIS and the Department of State is almost as bad as dealing with the IRS. I say almost because there are cabinet level secretaries of the President that USCIS and DoS employees must answer to, whereas the IRS answers to nobody.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Just because it was brought up.........whether or not something is regarded as a crime in the beneficiaries country is a moot point.

The beneficiary is applying for a visa to come to the US. The US government will set the bars as to what is "criminal" or not.

How do I know this? Because in the United Kingdom, many crimes are considered "spent" after a certain length of time. It's called the "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act" and the offenses drop off the persons records. The US consulate in London doesn't give a damn about the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

Except someone would have to be CONVICTED of a crime for any of this statement to matter. She hasn't been. It MATTERS NOT what the US or CzechRepublic or the consulate "consider" a crime, THERE IS NO CRIME! Why would you even discuss convictions, rehabilitation and punishment in a case that involves no criminal record? Good grief.

So you are saying the US consulate in Prague, CZ will decide that someone with NO criminal record IS indeed a criminal anyway because in UK she falls under the rehabiltation of offenders act? WHAT????????

One liners are the forte of some people and they should stick to that.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Just because it was brought up.........whether or not something is regarded as a crime in the beneficiaries country is a moot point.

The beneficiary is applying for a visa to come to the US. The US government will set the bars as to what is "criminal" or not.

How do I know this? Because in the United Kingdom, many crimes are considered "spent" after a certain length of time. It's called the "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act" and the offenses drop off the persons records. The US consulate in London doesn't give a damn about the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

It's the same with crimes committed in the US. Many states have a system called "deferred adjudication", where a crime is automatically erased from the criminal record if the convicted person successfully completes their term of probation without getting into any additional trouble. In other cases, you can usually request the record be expunged if a period of time has elapsed without any further convictions.

USCIS doesn't care about this. If the question is "have you ever been convicted" then they don't care if your record is now clean. Unfortunately, having your record cleared at the court where the conviction was handed down does not automatically erase the records in all government agencies that maintain such records, like the FBI and other less well known 3 letter agencies. A person might answer an immigration related question with "No, I've never been convicted", thinking they're safe because their record was supposedly cleared, only to discover that a record DOES exist of their original conviction, and USCIS has found it.

Dealing with USCIS and the Department of State is almost as bad as dealing with the IRS. I say almost because there are cabinet level secretaries of the President that USCIS and DoS employees must answer to, whereas the IRS answers to nobody.

Good information, Jim, and you are not the one-liner kinda guy to be sure. But there is no crime or conviction in this case, I understand this is hypothetical and YES what she did is illegal in Alabama (along with ownership of vibrators, the exposure of NIPPLES, OMG! and oral sex between a husband and wife and other horrible crimes which threaten society and I fear when walking down a dark street in Mobile) but I doubt the consulates are going to be asking petitioners and beneficiaries if they own a vibrator because it is illegal in their home state.

(in Alabama if you are selling vibrators and machineguns in a back alley from the trunk of your car...you will be arrested. For selling vibrators!)

I will repeat my earlier staement of which I am SURE. This is a non-issue for the OP and his fiancee. Answer the questions honestly and do not add unnecessary and unneeded details that NO ONE else provides.

[KnJ 0]

A person coming to the US to engage in prostitution, or who has engaged in prostitution within ten years of their application for entry, is inadmissible, as are those who have made financial profit from prostitution. No criminal conviction is required, and the bar applies even to nationals of countries where prostitution is legal. Those who have been forced into prostitution are not inadmissible.

This from Visalaw

I thought this was worth repeating. I don't think this counts as prostitution. My emphasis added. Something doesn't have to be illegal in the person's country in order for the person to be inadmissable because of it. Some things won't come up, some things could. But the point is that even if there is no conviction, the person could be denied because of their actions.

My former marriage technically wasn't legal according to the US federal government. Although it's not a crime, I have no idea how that will impact my case. So all I can do is be prepared to answer questions and prove a real relationship with my fiance.

[Old Dominion 26]

At the end of the day, when she has her visa interview he should plan to attend.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

If I were the OP, I would worry about something very different:

she was doing her business in a public website. What if somebody connected to the approval process recognizes her photo?

Winning the lottery is 76M to 1, and some people win it. Therefore, could she be recognized. She certainly could. Thread lightly!