Balamban

22 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Well I have not read this thread but strikes me OP did not appreciate the nature of the arrangement he was entering 

700,00 PHP over three years with no complaints...other than occasional blatant scam attempts.  Then when, rather abruptly I could not come up with 3.2 million peso, whammo... 

I thought that the post might be useful, especially of one read the beginning, but this has turned into something else.

notantifun, at this point you're simply being a bully.

For the rest of those who posted civilly, salamat.

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

I assume you are thinking of the termination  of the I 864 if she does not naturalise

Though I am not worried about the financial obligation for a person who worked last week for 88 hours is unlikely ever to be a public charge, yes, I thought that the financial obligation ended when the immigrant accrued 40 quarters which, I think, also makes them eligible for social security.  

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Yes that had nothing to do with naturalization or neutralization as it is sometimes called on here.

I'm lost now.  I thought a resident alien immigrant with a Green Card, who acquired 40 quarters or ten years of work could become a naturalized citizen.

I admit that I'm not familiar with the process of an immigrant becoming a full citizen.

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

English is taught in schools in the Philippines. The fact that she had to take classes to learn to speak English means she received poor Education.

True, her education was very poor.  Still she managed to become fluent in English and get up to 7th grade in Math, all in two years.  

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

You married her when you were past the age of retirement and she is just barely starting adulting. You don't see a problem with this? 

Nope. she was 24, she knew what she was doing, we discussed the age gap.  Clearly you see a problem with this similar to the website Plenty of Fish which forbids any search greater than 14 years.   I have no problem with your mores, but they do not dictate ours.

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

Every divorced couple would tell you they had fun and loving relationship. So what's your point?

The couple that I was referring to are not divorced, they live down the street.

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

She's using the word Calvary slightly wrong. She translated "kalbaryo" literally. But basically, she's saying they want you to be punished. But then again this shouldn't be a surprise. See;

I'm sorry, but I don't get it.  That sister asked for $50 US for a Hepatitis B shot for her newborn.  We paid it. Then I read that there was a free newborn Hepatitis B program.  I contacted the clinic who gave the Hepatitis B vaccination, yes, it was free.   So are you saying that the sister wants me punished for catching her in one of several blatant scams?  

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

I remember your post about your concerns about health insurance, even considering Philhealth which indicated you weren't exactly financially comfortable and yet there was some promise to buy a mango farm? Misrepresentation.

My concern was simple.  Her moma does not have Philhealth because she does not have a birth certificate or a baptismal certificate.  I tried to find a way that we could buy Philhealth for her in the absence of a birth certificate.  I went so far as to send a letter to the church where she was born hoping to find a birth certificate.  I failed.   It was my choice to try to make sure she, at least, had Philhealth. 

9 minutes ago, notantifun said:

The wife not being clear that marriage relied on the purchase of said mango farm. Misrepresentation.

 

Anecdotal. Does not help.

Thank you for your input.

4 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

If she remains married to you, it would be a lot sooner. 

 

How so, sooner?  One can only accumulate 4 quarters a year?  Am I missing something?

37 minutes ago, notantifun said:

This is one of those VJ tales as old as time. This was sadly a predictable ending. I've seen pretty much all this guy's posts. First of all, let's not ignore the 44 years age difference. OP is 70-71 years old. Also, wife appears to not speak good English (had to be enrolled in English classes). I cannot imagine how you two communicated and got married in the first place. Couples both speaking fluent English but coming from different cultural backgrounds are not spared from the language barriers, more so when once barely speaks it. Anyway, it's clear that the dynamics in this relationship were very problematic from it's inception. 

 

Even if the family's demands were ridiculous and they were, boundaries should have been set from the beginning. The failure of the marriage was purely due to poor boundaries, problematic power dynamics and partners misrepresenting their intentions to each other.

 

 

Thank you for points of view.

My wife is now almost fluent in English, and has a very good vocabulary.  Yes she tends to get “th” wrong, but so does half the world.  We spent much of the 1st year together with her learning and our city has an exceptional English as Second Language and she did quite well.  The reality is that there is no language barrier for her.  I do wish that I had learned at least conservational Bisaya, so there is a language barrier for me.

Just how is it clear, pray tell, that the dynamic was problematic?  The reality was that we had a fun, loving relationship until about a month ago which was brought on by our being one single day late on a remittance.  

Just yesterday she had stopped by and said: “I told the family that I still wanted to see you,” they said, “no, no, you will be on Calvary.”  Now I’m not sure what Calvary was but it was clear that they did not want her talking to me.  Anyone know what "Calvary" is to a Filipina?

I shall agree that there was poor boundaries between us and the family, they expected a farm within 3 years, plain and simple.  If only I had known I was under a time constraint.

I fail to see any “power dynamics,” or any misrepresentation between us.  Perhaps you’d like to clarify?  Are you implying that a large age gap always equals a power dynamic issue and misrepresentation?

As far as the age gap, the couple that she is currently renting a room from has a 37 year age gap, they have been married now for 17 year.  Large age gaps are not uncommon and a simple age gap does not in itself predict a marital failure.
 

2 hours ago, ms.lonely said:

I am a filipina  been here in the US for 2 years now as CR1, we got married in the Philippines. He quit he's  job after 2 weeks I came taught  me to drive and do things together while I am on the process of adjusting  to my present situation. He was not working  for 2 years. I started to applied for a job so I can help him while his sacrificing himself not to work in order to help me to lean and adapt to the new culture. I am very  thankful  and appreciates my husband. Next February we will be 4 years in our marriage happy and doing a lot of adventures  as a couple. Eventhough there are bumps along the way in our  relationship. We tried to overcome it and solve the issues  right away cause we are a team. As a team we can solve it together whatever turmoil may encounter out  there. I brought a dog from the Philippines when I came here she was my baby.  Unfortunately she died last April ,2020 it hurt me alot cried for for 2 months and my mom passed away last July 18, 2020. It gave so much pain because  before I left the country  I took good care of here since she got a stroke for 4 years and 9 months. I came in the US  Oct 2019. My husband was there a shoulder  to cry on and reminding me that I have  him.

Such a sweet story, thank you, excepting the part about your mom and the dog.

1 hour ago, Crazy Cat said:

From an immigration standpoint, your best option is for her to become a US citizen as soon as possible.  Then, you are no longer obligated under the I-864.  The multiple relationship issues between you two and her family, of course, are a different matter altogether.

Thanks for the Kubler-Ross reference.  It brings back memories of my RN education.

Kubler-Ross was spot on, and I'm not sure if I'm stuck in the bargaining phase, the denial phase, or the acceptance phase, but it always ends there.

Yes, I learned it when I studied to be a RN also.

She'll become a US citizen when she accumulates, what is it 40 quarters of work?  That'll be 34 quarters to go, that'll be 8.5 years.  I'm not worried either way.

3 hours ago, Carpe Vinum said:

Adventine and others have broken this situation down far better than I ever could. You could have bought the mango farm...heck you could have bought 10 mango farms and they would have never been satisfied. You were the ticket for the whole family to raise their status - financially and socially. Of course we are only hearing one side of the story which is what usually happens here on VJ.

 

Was your wife working during those two years and helping to send money?

Carpe Vinum, I see that you saw that yes, "she works a lot."  She worked for about half of our relationship.  Recently she's started working "a lot," and after leaving "a very lot," meaning about 88 hours this last week.   She's an impressive worker and I suspect one of the most valued at the place where she works.  She'll do well though I fear because her family will bleed her dry and she'll eventually find a new guy and likely marry, and then the pressures will double.  But that's her problem (or not, as the future shall tell).  

Since there is no hostility at all (sadness, yes) it was no big deal to divide assets fairly and that was nice, she's leaving with a good amount in savings.

20 minutes ago, Kor2USA said:

I'm sorry you are going through this difficult time. 

 

Do you plan on attending an interview (if it happens) if you are not divorced when the time comes?

 

 

As you still love your wife, if you are divorced when she is called for an interview, you can write a letter stating you had a bonafide relationship but unfortunately the marriage ended due to irreconcilable differences. This could strengthen her case.

 

 

Thank you.  If asked, I would attend and I would point out that for 3 years it was a truly wonderful bonafide relationship.  The irreconcilable differences are real, I want to stay, the family says I must go, the wife gives priority to the family.  End of story.

24 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

Perhaps you’re being unnecessary judgmental and misreading? I read simple to mean average, no drama. He didn’t sound like a disgruntled customer to me. He didn’t call her a bad woman etc, he sounded like a man in pain.

 

Let’s have some empathy.

Thank you African Zealot.  I took no offense as I believe that the poster was from NZ and now lived in Seattle, Washington.  To call someone "simple" in America tends to mean they are a "dolt," or stupid person.  The definition in the Philippines is non-derogatory.

1 minute ago, HRQX said:

No. During I-485 adjudication an I-864 was submitted so that is now in effect since the I-485 was approved.

Removal of Conditions is adjudicated differently than Adjustment of Status. Thus why a divorce waiver exists for Removal of Conditions.

That is not an issue for a divorce waiver ROC case. I.e. the divorce and the main reasons occurred after I-485 approval.

Thank you HRQX.  I really wasn't looking for an "out," and I'm really not worried about needing one though some will say, "anything is possible."

She's a wonderful woman, a wonderful life partner and all that.  God grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change... and all that.

30 minutes ago, Boiler said:

She can remove conditions with a divorce waiver so you are on the hook

30 minutes ago, Boiler said:

She can remove conditions with a divorce waiver so you are on the hook

Am I correct in thinking that it's the I-134 in my case?

I'm not particularly worried about being "on the hook."  But wonder about options if I have any.  The way I see it is, she has the Green Card and the only thing that could change that would be if they pulled us in for a 2nd interview and USCIS determined if it was not a bonafide relationship.  They could refuse to adjust status.  (Btw, we're not divorced yet)  Interestingly, it was bona fide, until the "family" took over which might make it no longer bona fide.

The reason I'm not worried about being "on the hook," is that this last week she worked 88 hours.  Really.  She loves to work, and works too much.  I doubt that she'd ever be on the dole.  Sure, it's always possible but very unlikely.

Is there any way to promote being called in for a final interview.  Interestingly I have a recording of her telling how her family is demanding that she divorce me.  My state could care less, since we're no-fault but then there is the question: If an immigrant divorces her husband via a demand from the family, with intent to find a richer ATM...  If I were a USCIS officer I'd have issues with that.

12 minutes ago, Balamban said:

Boiler, I went though the K1 process but I'm not really very familiar with it.  Can I pull the I-864.  I thought that once she was here and had a Green Card that was no longer an option.

 

How would one go about attempting to revoke the I-864.

 

Maybe I'm stuck in the Kubler-Ross "denial" or "bargaining" phase of grief but at this stage I'd be happy to put her back in the Philippines.  Shortly, the family might decide to "forgive" me, whereupon if she, as she says, still loves me, I could propose again and this time marry in the Philippines and the family who believes that marriages in America are substandard might get stuck with me.

Thinking about what you said Boiler:

"She's been here a bit more than three years.  She got her first Green card which has expired, but has the letter of extension through to sometime next year.  I'd appreciate if you can, pointing me in the right direction.  I have honored all my promises to the letter.  In our wedding vows she promised to "love, honor and protect him, forsaking all others and holding only unto him forever."  I promised the same.  I don't recall the words.... "or until the family tells you to divorce him and find a richer guy."

41 minutes ago, Boiler said:

It is also about adjusting status from a K 1

 

Have you pulled the I 864?

Boiler, I went though the K1 process but I'm not really very familiar with it.  Can I pull the I-864.  I thought that once she was here and had a Green Card that was no longer an option.

How would one go about attempting to revoke the I-864.

Maybe I'm stuck in the Kubler-Ross "denial" or "bargaining" phase of grief but at this stage I'd be happy to put her back in the Philippines.  Shortly, the family might decide to "forgive" me, whereupon if she, as she says, still loves me, I could propose again and this time marry in the Philippines and the family who believes that marriages in America are substandard might get stuck with me.

7 minutes ago, chancecody said:

Sorry you are having difficulty right now but things will get better. Reading your post felt like I was watching a telenovela on GMA PinoyTV. I think you are better off now as like you said, you married someone with extended family who likes to treat you like an ATM. Do not generalize the Filipino culture though based on your experience as not everyone is like that. If your wife really loved you, she would not have left and fought for you. 

I don't generalize.  In fact I think that I largely got myself into this mess.  I told my then fiancée, I wanted to have a mango farm on Bohol.  She told her family, who told everyone else.  Based on my behavior, they became certain that such a plan would materialize in a few years, and that is exactly what would have happened if I had not found myself in a situation where I could not work in my profession for two years.  If I had been able to, the farm would be there now, and all problems solved.  The family however was unable to fathom that I was in a position where I could not work for two years, so eventually they labeled me kuripot.

You stated: "If your wife really loved you, she would not have left and fought for you."  Those are the same words that I said to her--apparently in "her" culture, I'm wrong.

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Nothing new, have you read Pride and Prejudice?

No, and at the moment, I think I'll pass....

27 minutes ago, laylalex said:

 

It's always about money, at least in my experience, when it isn't about infidelity.

Many thanks layalex, yes there is a real resonance to your post and my situation.

A friend wrote me:  

"We are very much a family orientated individual and unfortunately our decisions are always highly influenced by what our families think.

There's a saying in the Philippines "I'm gonna marry the 4 M's, matandang (old), mayaman (rich), madaling (quick) mamatay( to die)" so that's really does say a lot."

It sort of makes me laugh and cringe at the same time.  The tragedy is that clearly my wife does not want to end the marriage but when pushed a bit she confessed: "Yes, I must do what the family demands."  Much like your story.

1 hour ago, Balamban said:

Moderator, why move this to "Effects of Major Changes on Immigration benefits."

 

This is about Philppine culture  ?

Very much so.  It's a discussion of a failed marriage that failed due to the US petitioner not understanding cultural differences in the Philippines.

13 minutes ago, Adventine said:

You may find it useful to read this article on Ask Culture vs. Guess Culture: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/

Americans are very much Askers. Filipinos are very much Guessers. The issue with the farm seems to be a classic example.

Very interesting article, thank you.

My gut response, being a Westerner would be: 

"Actually, One of Them Is Wrong  The New Republic's Jonathan Chait takes a hard line. "This is actually pretty simple: Guessers are wrong, and Askers are right. Asking is how you actually determine what the Asker wants and the giver is willing to receive. Guessing culture is a recipe for frustration. What's more, Guessers, who are usually trying to be nice and are holding themselves to a higher level of politeness, ruin things for the rest of us ... Guessers are what forces people with poor social discernment, like me, to regard all kinds of interactions as a minefield of awkwardness."

Yet, I'll be the first to agree that my gut response, in the Philippines is at best insensitive and at worst, totally wrong.  Since harmony has such a high priority, there "guesser's" are correct.  So, perhaps the real problem was that a "guesser," probes with hints, and they may have done that--to my wife, who never really translated what the "reality" was.  

The family sort of gave me an "out," with the landlocked land.  Yes, it would have been dangerous to actually occupy it, but they could, after everyone in the village expected the "farm to appear" say: "See the son-in-law bought us land."  That way, perhaps the family could have "saved face."  

Intercultural exchange can be difficult and perhaps more so when the parties are not bi-lingual.  I suspect that even if I had a rudimentary knowledge of Bisaya, I would have seen what the problem really was, and maybe solved it.

28 minutes ago, Unlockable said:

*** Moved from the Philippines section of the forum to the

 

 

VJ Moderation

Moderator, why move this to "Effects of Major Changes on Immigration benefits."

This is about Philppine culture  ?

1 hour ago, Adventine said:

 

You're coming from a place of hurt and pain. I get it. But you're generalizing Filipinas in a way that sounds like both you and your wife had expectations of each other that just didn't match reality. You expected a "simple" woman, and it sounded like she expected a "good" provider. It seems that you both resent each other for not living up to those expectations.

It sounds like your wife never drew firm boundaries with her family when it came to money or family support. Before getting married, did you ever have honest, direct discussions with her about how much money she would send home? What were your backup plans if someone in her family had a financial emergency? Exactly how many people were you expected to support back home? What were her expectations about the wedding? How much time did you spend in the Philippines and how much did you know about Filipino culture before you married? 

 

These are all things that the two of you should have talked about seriously before getting married. Or maybe you did, but the priorities changed. In any case, it sounds like a lot of built up resentment on both sides -  yours and hers.

 

I'm a Filipina, and kuripot (cheap), and I still send money regularly to my family because I have a shared responsibility with my siblings to take care of an aging father. Emphasis on shared. But I've set clear boundaries with them: you are only getting X pesos a month, because I'm married now, and I have my own priorities, and they do not include supporting everyone back home. My siblings have their own jobs, emergency funds, insurance and investments, and we all share expenses with supporting our aging father. I was up front with my husband about this while we were dating, and we had our financial plans in writing so that it was always clear.

Thank you for your thoughts, Adventine.  My wife had the same expectations about finance as I did.  The issue was never between us, it was this unsaid "buy us a farm," you sound like you have excellent boundaries, while she has essentially very little boundaries.  Most of  the family have no jobs and my wife was the baby, not an elder.  The other daughters demanded that she act as Ate, but never gave her the respect that an Ate deserves.  Actually we were quite upfront and agreed between us to send 3500 peso/month, yet even when sending 20,000, essentially supporting the entire family during Covid, it was never enough.  The reality was not the monthly remittance, it was that they expected me to buy them a farm...........but nobody ever told me that.  That's the crazy part.

My soon to be ex-wife has no resentments at all.  Today she said: "I told the family that I still want to see you," and they said "no."  To me that seems just weird.

3 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

You had me until this.  Your saga sounds like you are a disgruntled customer.

 

Why not look for a partner for their own merits, rather than someone from a specific country who you assume will be "simple"?

Thank you for your comment Jorgedig.  "Simple appears to mean normal, not demanding of the luxuries in life. ie: Happy to live a simple life. (In comparison to what is seen in many others)."

In the Philippines, and any Filipino(a) here, please correct me if I'm wrong, is not a put-down.  Many women say "I"m a simple person, and it means that I'm not high-so.  

I brought my fiancée to America on a K1, 3 ½ years ago, we married and married life has been wonderful.  Then, out of the blue, my wife left and asked for a divorce.

Why? Because her family in Cebu demanded that she leave and divorce me.  Seriously, my wife left a note: “I love you, but I must leave.”

My mistake, six years ago, was that I had told her that my “dream” was to have a mango farm on Bohol.  That dream and FaceBook has ended my marriage.  Of course, there’s more to that.  I’m an RN and ran into a situation at work where a nurse filed a complaint with the Board of Nursing, well, not “a” complaint, rather it was over 40 complaints.

The Board of Nursing turned it over to my state’s Attorney General’s Investigative Department (police) and the investigation took over two years.  For those two years, I was unable to work as an RN.  The outcome, not that long ago, all dismissed.  Innocent.  But here I was with no income for two years, and that’s equal to about 10 million pesos that I did not have.

Well, it seemed that long ago my soon to be ex-wife told the family about my dream farm.  It is clear that the family, extended family, neighborhood, compadres and all those in the town started waiting for the daughter who married the (rich) American to buy the farm.  But, nobody, and not my wife ever told me that they were waiting for “the farm.”  This expectation was never voiced, I had no clue that one hundred people were waiting for the happy announcement: “daughter has a mango farm for the family.”

Year one of our marriage, great, everybody was happy.  Year two, odd family demands, unsettling demands for more and more peso.  Originally, we sent 4k peso, then 6, 8, 10, then Covid hit and I sent 20k @ month, to help the siblings out—but nobody ever seemed happy.

One day there was weeping and gnashing of teeth, “papa is to be thrown out of his house.”  (He’s an informal squatter and does not own the land the house is on).

Oh, but guess what?  Brother-in-law just happened to have found a good piece of land for only 350k peso.  Great, I said, buy it.  But, *groan*.  No clear title, no proof that taxes were up to date and worse, far worse, the land was land-locked.  This means, no access to a road.  I said the buyer: “Sure, I’ll buy it, let’s work with a lawyer, and pay some peso to a neighbor to get a titled right-of-way.  Her response: “You have no money, you kuripot.” *click* Shortly after that my wife’s sister’s family locked us out on FB.  Huh?

Then, every month, on the 15^th, when we made remittances, my wife was increasingly traumatized.  I got to dread the 15^th, like the plague, just hoping to get through it and no, I was not going to keep increasing remittances forever—so there was argument, our only fights were about family and remittances.

Interestingly, papa was never thrown out, so much for the imminent eviction.  One day the family happily announced they had found the perfect small farm, it had mango trees, and was only 3.2 million (US ~$60,000).  It was perfect and I would have loved to buy it but I had gone 2 years with no income and had to say no.

Silence, and then volcanic eruptions.  “Papa tried to stab is son, he is in a drunken rage.”  Another week, “Papa has gone on a binge and has broken all the glass in the house.” Translation: “You are a bad daughter, (and by definition, a bad son-in-law), you did not buy the farm, you are forcing papa (an alcoholic) to drink.”

Then on October 15^th, we were one day late in remittances. Oh, the angst!  The crime of the century.  And the next day, my wife asked for a divorce, packed up and left and has not returned and will not return. 

What is fascinating is she was never a gold-digger, she was a great woman, a great wife and I am crushed but there is absolutely nothing that I can do.  It seems to me that this is an odd (maybe, maybe not) case where the cause was the family, not the wife.

Her AOS has not been finalized and I wonder what will happen if we are called in for an interview. If asked: “Was this a bona-fide relationship?” I would have to say: “Yes, until the family demanded an end to it and my wife obeyed, even though she had said in our wedding ceremony: “I promise to love, honor, cherish and protect him, forsaking all others, holding only unto him forevermore.”

I asked her about her vows (we’re civil, we live in a no-fault state, and are breaking up civilly). Her response: “That wasn’t a real wedding.” (meaning it wasn’t in the Phils)  So, for anyone who might read this, consider marrying your fiancé in the Philippines where the marriage is apt to be considered “real,” by the family.

And for the naysayers, no, there is no other guy in the wings.  She’s moved in with a Filipina friend (a married couple) and is doing what her parents demand:  Last week she has worked exactly 88 hours.  I had suspected that but 3 weeks have gone by and there appears to be no hidden lover to be.

I wanted a simple Filipina and got one and it was the best, but what I failed to realize was that I did not marry a Filipina, I married about 100 others variously related.  Had I the money to buy that farm, I’d be happily married today.  That’s a hard lesson on Filipina culture.

For the Filipinas (ino’s) and spouses here, a question: Is this common?  FaceBook is loaded with good daughters who bought their parents a house/land/farm.  The message to too many is: "If daughter marries a foreign man, the house/farm will come."  Sure, it does for some and sure all daughters and their son-in-laws will and would do that, if they can.  My problem was, I couldn't, at least not in the time-frame that the family wanted.

And yes, not understanding I’ve offered to buy the landlocked land or the farm (in a few years since I’ll be back working full-time again in a few weeks) but “no,” I am defined now as kuripot (cheap) and there is no forgiving that.  The family has lost “face.” 

And I made it worse since I complained on FaceBook, for when she left I had thought there was another guy, and said so, so now there is no turning back the hands of time.  It is difficult for a Westerner to understand the concept of “face,” but this sums it up.

“When you cause a Filipino to lose face in front of his friends or family, you are in for trouble and you need to figure out what to do.  If you don’t, there’s no telling what could happen, including death.  That would be extreme, but it does happen.  Basically, I would suggest that you need to show some humility, and apologize in front of the same people that witnessed the event.  If you don’t do that, the person who lost face will not regain his honor. Basically, if you take no action to correct the problem, revenge might happen, and it might happen even years later.  These things are not easily forgotten.”  https://liveinthephilippines.com/loss-of-face/

I shall try to apologize but I’ve been told, it will make no difference and that I must move on, as hard as it is for my Western psyche to grasp.

For all Western males here I strongly suggest that you read Culture Shock Guide (Philippines)  Alfredo and Grace Roces.

 https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Shock-Philippines-Survival-Etiquette/dp/0761456716/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=culture+shock+philippines&qid=1636306114&sr=8-1

I had not seen your response Joe Kano till tonight.  That's so sad but I realize that corruption is common in the Philippines, I guess I never realized it would be so common.