Vietnamese massive marriage fraud ring unraveled by ICE [merged threads]

[cyclone27 710]

^reason Viet couples of common heritage normally have to do family trees. (Consulate well aware of such scams)

[millefleur 5,039]

6 hours ago, theresaL said:

I'm not really sure how one would even set up something like this. I'm too honest and just don't think criminal.

 

When we were going thru the K-1 process a friend of mine and I were talking about immigration in general and she explained to me how some of her family were able to immigrate. She's from VN and she said it was common for older male family members to petition for younger female relatives claiming she is their wife and vice versa. She said her uncle did this and the girl (supposed spouse) was actually his niece. Then after the "wife" became a US citizen they divorced and she petitioned for her parents. She said she knew other people who did the same thing and there was always a fee involved. 

6 hours ago, cyclone27 said:

^reason Viet couples of common heritage normally have to do family trees. (Consulate well aware of such scams)

Wow, that's so insane and something I never would've thought of. I honestly had no idea VN was high fraud, I thought maybe some to moderate fraud but didn't realize it was this level. 

[TBoneTX 43,291]

The below, although perhaps chiefly a bad match in general, has accompanying tinges of fraud:

 

Eligible buddy of mine was recruited hard by a Vietnamese family to visit an unmarried female relative in VN.  He visited for over a week and was wined & dined.  He reported several strange-sounding financial demands while he was there, and he was strong-armed into agreeing to marry this woman quite soon.  He nearly fell for it, but here's his report:

 

     "Things with this woman turned for the worse last night after sending last night's email.  She told me that I told her parents I planned to marry her in September, and that all changed when I returned to the US.  I told her that immigration now requires 2 visits before marrying.  I also told her I was not comfortable with the wedding costs as it would cause great financial hardship.  She wanted a $10k wedding and a 2-carat diamond ring, which costs around $14k in VN.  I told her we need to work things out.  She continued to accuse me of not completely trusting in her and that she was ending the relationship with me.  She then ordered me to delete all the photos of her and I ended the conversation there because it was just getting stranger by the second.
     "The wedding demands were already a huge big red flag and her accusatory attitude basically put the nail in the coffin.  She is far worse than Ex-Wife!  My brother-in-law says she wanted the expensive diamond ring so that she could resell it in VN.  My mom's Vietnamese sisters said the wedding demands were excessive and to not cave to those demands.  This is a breakup that I feel relieved about.  I'm convinced God was watching over me.  This woman either has a major anger problem or the relationship was a fraud and I exposed it.
     "Just wanted to tell you all of this.  Fortunately she was not the most clever person out there.   I exposed her motives in relatively little time.  You can report my experience on VJ if you would like to warn others."

[cyclone27 710]

Wedding costs vary in Vietnam but in fairness there is a lot to it compared to western weddings. 

 

I gave my wife a budget and she was really good about organizing things and it was a top notch affair.

 

i think after all the red envelopes were counted the reception was paid for as well  as other related expenses. I prob was out of pocket maybe 2k.

[millefleur 5,039]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

She wanted a $10k wedding and a 2-carat diamond ring, which costs around $14k in VN.  I told her we need to work things out.  She continued to accuse me of not completely trusting in her and that she was ending the relationship with me.  She then ordered me to delete all the photos of her and I ended the conversation there because it was just getting stranger by the second.

Laundry list of red flags right there. It started with the wining and dining...everything about this screams SCAMMER.

 

Sadly I think these types will go after the very lonely (wealthy) people who have succeeded in life financially but have not been lucky in love. Those types are just walking around with a target on their back. I'm glad this guy had the sense to see through this and did not get duped emotionally. It just blows my mind how many scammers are out there and how many succeed.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by millefleur

[Dashinka 23,320]

11 hours ago, millefleur said:

Greed corrupts the mind. It becomes like an addiction, you just want more and more and it's never enough.

 

Who even in the US has $70k to spare, and in cash/dark money I'm assuming? There's no way anyone involved in this didn't know that it was highly illegal and wrong and probably used ill gotten money. Such people would've never been interested in owning or operating a legimate business, when they know that the black market offer$ so much more. 

 

I wonder if this is going to elevate Vietnam to "high fraud" status?

 

 

I don't think the USC is the one paying the $70k or whatever amount in this sense.  In fact, the USC may be getting a taste of the fee charged to the fraudulent beneficiary

[cyclone27 710]

US citizen is making 70k or most of it. Basically marry and go separate ways after green card. I don’t think there is any other benefit apart from the money.

[USS_Voyager 1,971]

4 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

She wanted a $10k wedding and a 2-carat diamond ring, which costs around $14k in VN. 

$10k is a little bit ridiculous. That's about two weddings. My wedding costed about less than $4,000 and that was at one of the top places in Saigon, 9-course meal, unlimited beer and wine for 2 hours, and two live bands! 

 

[USS_Voyager 1,971]

4 hours ago, cyclone27 said:

i think after all the red envelopes were counted the reception was paid for as well  as other related expenses. I prob was out of pocket maybe 2k.

You gotta like that, don't ya? I think for my wedding, I ended up just about breaking even. For my wife's wedding, I think there was even extra money to spare! 

 

Now, I know the above sounds weird (my wedding and my wife's wedding?). I am from Saigon, in the South, and my wife is from Ha Noi, in the North. We met in the US and I already had a GC and she was already a US citizen, so there is no immigration in this. However, being from two places, all of my relatives were in the South and all of hers were in the North, so we decided to do two weddings in Vietnam. She would handle hers and I would handle mine. That was a crazy time, two freaking weddings in a span of 2 weeks in two locations 1000 miles apart... 

[cyclone27 710]

^Actually wedding was not so much fun - standing and taking photos with hundreds of guests before during and after all was said/done.

[Boiler 43,622]

One positive aspect of this is that there is a clear understanding of what the deal is, what makes VJ so fascinating is the obvious cases where 2 parties were coming at this with very different motivations and objectives.

 

Now there is bound to be some difference, in any relationship, but the disparity in some of these cases are definitely OMG.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 hours ago, USS_Voyager said:

$10k is a little bit ridiculous. That's about two weddings. My wedding costed about less than $4,000 and that was at one of the top places in Saigon, 9-course meal, unlimited beer and wine for 2 hours, and two live bands! 

 

But by US standards, $10k is cheap.  And for a lonely old guy who has no knowledge of VN customs, $10k may SEEM cheap, even in VN.

[TBoneTX 43,291]

The most dangerous food is Wedding Cake.

[USS_Voyager 1,971]

4 hours ago, Boiler said:

One positive aspect of this is that there is a clear understanding of what the deal is, what makes VJ so fascinating is the obvious cases where 2 parties were coming at this with very different motivations and objectives.

 

Now there is bound to be some difference, in any relationship, but the disparity in some of these cases are definitely OMG.

 

If you look at the contemporary history of Vietnam and the US, it actually all makes sense. At least to me, anyway. First of the Vietnamese people, we don't do a whole lot of online dating. Most of them are on the online dating sites are just trolls. I am not saying there aren't any, but the common scheme of the scammer hanging around internet dating sites waiting for a US citizen "mark", that is not common in Vietnam. We just don't like to do that. 

Second of all, if you look at the history, in 1975, what we (in the US) called the Vietnam War ended (in Vietnam, they called it the Glorious Victory against the Imperial American Empire). The Communists of the North took over the US-supported South of Vietnam. Immediately after the war, there were about 300,000-500,000 Vietnamese mostly from the South successfully escaped to the US. In the following 10-20 years, another 500,000 people joined them as refugees, the so-called "boat people". The point I am trying to make is, most of the people in South Vietnam today have at least a relative in the US, just not in the category that can sponsor them or sponsor them fast enough, because all of Immediate Relatives were already sponsored. These are the cousins, second-cousins, great uncles, aunty twice removed... Before the war, they all lived together in this one village, now half the family is in the US and half is in Vietnam. Therefore, there is this massive pull toward immigrating to the US, if not for them, for the next generation, the sons and daughters of the cousins and second cousins and great uncles,... 

 

All of that said, typically in Vietnam, they just look at this as a pure business, as a mean to "family unification". So deal is usually structured in installments. If the going price is $70,000, the ringleader probably gets $20,000 for the "finder's fee" and "lawyer's fees" because they had to look for a willing US citizen participant. The US citizen gets $50,000 in installments. Probably $10,000 when the "contract" is "signed". Then the US citizen will get 2-3 free trips to Vietnam all expenses paid for to build the back story for USCIS/Consulate. By the time the wedding is done and all paper submitted, the US citizen probably get another installment and when the visa is approved, another installment. They probably hold the last installment until the ROC is approved and the divorce is finalized. That's it. Pure business. There is no love involved. The beneficiary usually already have a love interest so that they are willing to pay this premium. The minute the beneficiary arrives in the US, he/she probably live with relative and already have employment waiting for them, usually in a nail salon or restaurant. 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by USS_Voyager

[Boiler 43,622]

I was not really thinking of Vietnam specifically, there are definitely different traits which you can see on here Quite interesting.