Carson equates slaves to immigrants, social media blasts comment

[Dakine10 5,452]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I can see it, do you see it in your's?

  No. Since you proclaim to be the expert on hypocrisy, why don't you point it out for me.

[yuna628 9,547]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Ben Carson: Look up definition of immigrant

I think maybe Dr. Carson's issue was he thought people were smart enough to understand a word. Guess not 

 

im·mi·gra·tion

ˌiməˈɡrāSH(ə)n/

noun

 

1. the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/03/07/ben-carson-slaves-immigrants-facebook-armstrong-williams-show-sot-ctn.cnn

 

Ben Carson clarified what he meant when he likened slaves to immigrants who choose to come to the US by saying whether you come to the US voluntarily or involuntarily you are an immigrant.

NB, I know you have not suddenly become completely blind. A slave is not an immigrant. An immigrant takes the ACTION to LIVE in the US of their own FREE WILL. A slave does not. If we could all admit that he made a completely ridiculous and indefensible comment that was stupid beyond belief and move on, it'd be a lot easier.

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

NB, I know you have not suddenly become completely blind. A slave is not an immigrant. An immigrant takes the ACTION to LIVE in the US of their own FREE WILL. A slave does not. If we could all admit that he made a completely ridiculous and indefensible comment that was stupid beyond belief and move on, it'd be a lot easier.

 

It would have been easier if Carson had fessed up that what he said was nonsense, and that he spoke before thinking. But it's kinda a funny to se the MDRs double down and present an alternate fact definition of immigration, that includes abduction, false imprisonment, rape, physical abuse, and slavery. If they were in charge of the judiciary, they'd reclassify all the laws regarding sex trafficking under immigration.

 

That's some pure 98-octane kool-aid these kids are guzzling down I tell ya.

 

[Dashinka 23,421]

8 hours ago, Dakine10 said:

  No. Since you proclaim to be the expert on hypocrisy, why don't you point it out for me.

Easy.

 

Definition of hypocrite

1. 1 :  a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Beyond that, I have never proclaimed to be an expert on hypocrisy, but I can recognize it when I see it.  This thread is a great example.  No one has yet explained how what Ben Carson said was so bad, and yet when President Obama said essentially the same thing, not a peep from the MDL.  Yes, Dr. Carson may not be as eloquent as President Obama, but the themes were the same, so the criticism, or lack thereof should be as well.  I for one think President Obama was correct and never criticized him for his words in this matter just as I won't criticize Dr. Carson for his words either. 

[OriZ 3,157]

30 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Easy.

 

Definition of hypocrite

1. 1 :  a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Beyond that, I have never proclaimed to be an expert on hypocrisy, but I can recognize it when I see it.  This thread is a great example.  No one has yet explained how what Ben Carson said was so bad, and yet when President Obama said essentially the same thing, not a peep from the MDL.  Yes, Dr. Carson may not be as eloquent as President Obama, but the themes were the same, so the criticism, or lack thereof should be as well.  I for one think President Obama was correct and never criticized him for his words in this matter just as I won't criticize Dr. Carson for his words either. 

Much ado about nothing. So he called them immigrants, looking at what they ended up being not what they were brought here as, whoopty doo lets attack him for using the wrong word lol

[Dakine10 5,452]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Easy.

 

 

   Apparently not so easy. I didn't ask you for a definition of hypocrisy, I asked you to point it out. I think if you don't see the difference, you have already admitted you can't do that. 

 

  It has been explained to you. I can't read minds, but assuming Carson and Obama were thinking the same thing, Obama expressed a clear though out sentiment, while Carson's was clumsy and poorly stated. My criticism of Carson is and has almost always been for not realizing that tact and public speaking are necessary. Yes, some of his ideas are way out there, but for the most part, while being intelligent is important, but so is being able to express yourself. Many politicians before him have found that out the hard way. 

 

  

[Dakine10 5,452]

2 hours ago, OriZ said:

Much ado about nothing. So he called them immigrants, looking at what they ended up being not what they were brought here as, whoopty doo lets attack him for using the wrong word lol

  Saying regardless of how someone got here is fine. That is essentially what Obama said. 

 

  Saying people brought here in the hold of a slave ship had the same dreams of optimism for a better future, and visions of happiness and prosperity as let's say you did, is just senseless. People who were ripped away from their families and children, brought to a horrible existence and worked till they died would not have that outlook. It was an absolutely awkward and insensitive way of saying it, and I'm sure Carson did not actually mean it to sound that way, but ultimately it did.

 

   The guy is smart. He should realize he needs a course in public speaking more than anything else.

[bcking 3,157]

2 hours ago, OriZ said:

Much ado about nothing. So he called them immigrants, looking at what they ended up being not what they were brought here as, whoopty doo lets attack him for using the wrong word lol

My problem with what he said wasn't that he called them immigrants. Don't know if anyone has pointed out, but Obama referred to slaves as immigrants before as well. I agree with what others are saying that technically they shouldn't really be considered immigrants because an immigrant should be taking the action themselves out of free will to move to a country. Being kidnapped and forced to live somewhere else is not "immigration". However I can understand the point he was trying to make, as you mention. In the end they were immigrants because when given the power to choose they stayed.

 

My problem was that he spoke as if they also had an "American Dream" when they came here. I think that is an insult to the people brought over as slaves. They weren't on those ships "dreaming of opportunity and a better life". Their "better life" was back at home. They were going to hell.

[CaliCat 3,957]

2 hours ago, OriZ said:

Much ado about nothing. So he called them immigrants, looking at what they ended up being not what they were brought here as, whoopty doo lets attack him for using the wrong word lol

 

Under your act utilitarianism view, and in an alternate fact reality, you could also say that the concentration camps in Europe were workshops where many jews learned or improved a skill that helped them succeed in the post-war world; after all, it's not where they started, but where they ended up, that really counts. 

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

You can twist it any way you want, but they are still immigrants by any definition of the word. does not lessen the atrocity or change anything but it is the correct word. Yes it was forced immigration, but they are still immigrants. This is why so many dont take the liberal press and their lackeys serious anymore. If anyone wants to criticize on a real issue such as the new idiotic health care bill I am all in  

 

 

http://www.forcedmigration.org/about/whatisfm

What is forced migration?

Snip Snip

 

Trafficked people

These are people who are moved by deception or coercion for the purposes of exploitation. The profit in trafficking people comes not from their movement, but from the sale of their sexual services or labour in the country of destination. The trafficked person may be physically prevented from leaving, or be bound by debt or threat of violence to themselves or their family in their country of origin. Like smuggling, by its very clandestine nature, figures on the number of people being trafficked are extremely difficult to obtain.

 

 

 

[yuna628 9,547]

10 hours ago, CaliCat said:

 

It would have been easier if Carson had fessed up that what he said was nonsense, and that he spoke before thinking. But it's kinda a funny to se the MDRs double down and present an alternate fact definition of immigration, that includes abduction, false imprisonment, rape, physical abuse, and slavery. If they were in charge of the judiciary, they'd reclassify all the laws regarding sex trafficking under immigration.

 

That's some pure 98-octane kool-aid these kids are guzzling down I tell ya.

 

That's the problem with politics these days, and maybe the world in general. No one will ever admit they are wrong, lied, or made mistakes anymore. And it's so polarized people twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend the nonsense. It's childish really.

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

Much ado about nothing. So he called them immigrants, looking at what they ended up being not what they were brought here as, whoopty doo lets attack him for using the wrong word lol

Words mean things OriZ. If it were so simple as using the wrong word, we'd all be forgiving. But it's not just the wrong word. It's a whole wrong philosophy. He's said these very same paragraphs carbon copy for years, and that's how I know it's not just a ''choice of wrong words''. You can find the same ideas being pushed onto our youth in some religious and home schools today. It's a philosophy that tries to wrap slavery in a pretty package instead of admitting a grave wrong. When he says these things he's not 'stupid', we know he's smart - he actually believes them.

 

NB: Migration is a completely different meaning to the word Immigration. To migrate describes the movement of a person whether they are moving of their own free will or not. It's purpose is merely to describe movement with no distinction. He did not choose to use that word.

Edited March 9, 2017 by yuna628

[CaliCat 3,957]

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

You can twist it any way you want, but they are still immigrants by any definition of the word. does not lessen the atrocity or change anything but it is the correct word. Yes it was forced immigration, but they are still immigrants. This is why so many dont take the liberal press and their lackeys serious anymore. If anyone wants to criticize on a real issue such as the new idiotic health care bill I am all in  

 

 

http://www.forcedmigration.org/about/whatisfm

What is forced migration?

Snip Snip

 

Trafficked people

These are people who are moved by deception or coercion for the purposes of exploitation. The profit in trafficking people comes not from their movement, but from the sale of their sexual services or labour in the country of destination. The trafficked person may be physically prevented from leaving, or be bound by debt or threat of violence to themselves or their family in their country of origin. Like smuggling, by its very clandestine nature, figures on the number of people being trafficked are extremely difficult to obtain.

 

 

 

 

Funny enough, the MDRs are the one twisting themselves bent out of shape to try and make the concept of slavery fit into the definition of immigration. It's a commendable attempt, but one that falls short anyway.

 

By the same alternate fact logic, the concentration camps provided employment, shelter, and food, for many who would otherwise have been unemployed, destitute, and homeless, during the war.

 

Equating the process of enslavement and immigration is a long stretch. Some positions are indefensible, such as is the case of Mr. Carson's in this matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Teddy B 17,251]

13 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

That's the problem with politics these days, and maybe the world in general. No one will ever admit they are wrong, lied, or made mistakes anymore. And it's so polarized people twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend the nonsense. It's childish really.

Definitely the world in general. I don't know when it became so horrible for people to admit they were wrong, even for the simplest of things. Sad really.

[CaliCat 3,957]

21 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

That's the problem with politics these days, and maybe the world in general. No one will ever admit they are wrong, lied, or made mistakes anymore. And it's so polarized people twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend the nonsense. It's childish really.

Words mean things OriZ. If it were so simple as using the wrong word, we'd all be forgiving. But it's not just the wrong word. It's a whole wrong philosophy. He's said these very same paragraphs carbon copy for years, and that's how I know it's not just a ''choice of wrong words''. You can find the same ideas being pushed onto our youth in some religious and home schools today. It's a philosophy that tries to wrap slavery in a pretty package instead of admitting a grave wrong. When he says these things he's not 'stupid', we know he's smart - he actually believes them.

But you see, words, facts, and figures mean very little in this new world of ours.

 

We're dealing with the same people who said the crowd attending the inauguration was in the millions, something the American people know was a lie

 

Remember this?

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by CaliCat