mmigrant detained after press conference

[Boiler 47,041]

Argentina used to be a VWP country, now it is not, wonder why.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Argentina used to be a VWP country, now it is not, wonder why.

Probably something Obama did. 

[jg121783 3,921]

8 hours ago, smilesammich said:

also, no human being is illegal fyi.

Maybe not but there are plenty of people who are illegal aliens which is what the term "illegal" is short for. But you knew that already.

[smilesammich 10,727]

7 hours ago, jg121783 said:

Maybe not but there are plenty of people who are illegal aliens which is what the term "illegal" is short for. But you knew that already.

no maybe. those 'illegals' have just as much right to exist as you. not everyone denies civilization should have the basic right to move about the planet. no one chooses what country they're born in or where their parents take them as children and i think its crazy that people born in certain areas cant decide they want something better or even just different and move. oh i also know why the term 'alien' is preferred.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

58 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

no maybe. those 'illegals' have just as much right to exist as you. not everyone denies civilization should have the basic right to move about the planet. no one chooses what country they're born in or where their parents take them as children and i think its crazy that people born in certain areas cant decide they want something better or even just different and move. oh i also know why the term 'alien' is preferred.

I think it's crazy you think that we should have open borders. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

47 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I think it's crazy you think that we should have open borders. 

it's really not that crazy, it just isn't going to be reality any time soon..

Quote

The core principle of libertarianism is what is called the non-aggression principle. It holds that people are free to do anything they want so long as their conduct is peaceful. That is, so long as people are not murdering, assaulting, raping, burglarizing, defrauding, trespassing, or otherwise initiating force against others, they are free to engage in any action they want. In sum: anything that’s peaceful.

Thus, liberty necessarily encompasses such principles as freedom of association, freedom of travel, freedom of movement, economic liberty, freedom of trade, and liberty of contract.

Those principles necessarily lead to but one conclusion: Open borders, or the right of people to travel across borders in search of a better life, sustain and improve their lives through labor, enter into mutually beneficial transactions and contracts with others, trade, invest, open businesses, hire people, visit, tour, or engage in any other peaceful activity.

Yet, there are people within the libertarian movement who claim that open borders are actually contrary to libertarian principles and that government-controlled borders are the true libertarian position.

The thing is, though, proponents of government-controlled borders end up having to go through all sorts of contortions and distortions to arrive at this conclusion. In fact, whenever I read their arguments, I get the feeling that they are doing their darnest to pound a square philosophical peg into a round hole.

For example, some libertarian advocates of government-controlled borders claim that under the principle of open borders, people would be free to trespass on private property. Therefore, they argue, open borders can’t be libertarian and should be rejected in favor of government-controlled borders.

But that’s just a bogus straw man. Under open borders, both liberty and private property rights are fully protected. Under libertarianism, including open borders, no one has the right to trespass on another person’s property.

But note something important here: People have a right to go where invited and to associate with others. Those are peaceful activities. They are as important aspects of liberty as freedom of speech and freedom of religion and every other aspect of liberty.

It’s these particular fundamental rights associated with open borders — i.e., freedom of association, freedom of movement, freedom of travel, economic liberty, liberty of contract, freedom of trade, free markets, and free enterprise — that government-controlled borders destroy.

 

http://www.fff.org/2016/05/19/open-borders-libertarian-position-immigration/

[Merle 458]

2 hours ago, smilesammich said:

no maybe. those 'illegals' have just as much right to exist as you. not everyone denies civilization should have the basic right to move about the planet. no one chooses what country they're born in or where their parents take them as children and i think its crazy that people born in certain areas cant decide they want something better or even just different and move. oh i also know why the term 'alien' is preferred.

I want to live in a nicer, bigger house. I've decided i want something better and different. There are some really nice houses near me that fit the bill. I think I will move in to one this weekend. 

[Boiler 47,041]

An undocumented home owner?

[Merle 458]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

An undocumented home owner?

Or criminal. I'll let you decide on the label.

[smilesammich 10,727]

12 minutes ago, Merle said:

I want to live in a nicer, bigger house. I've decided i want something better and different. There are some really nice houses near me that fit the bill. I think I will move in to one this weekend. 

always the same arguments..go for it, hope you don't get arrested. if you can't remember my side of the argument on this, read the link i just posted. discusses private property.

 

 

 

 

[MacUK 983]

40 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

it's really not that crazy, it just isn't going to be reality any time soon..

 

http://www.fff.org/2016/05/19/open-borders-libertarian-position-immigration/

So some borders are open and some aren't?

 

Going by that logic then there can't be open borders. If a property owner can control who enters their property under this utopian pipedream then the legal possessors of a sovereign state (ie. the government) can control who enters their property.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by MacUK

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, MacUK said:

So some borders are open and some aren't?

 

Going by that logic then there can't be open borders. If a property owner can control who enters their property under these utopian pipedream then the legal possessors of a sovereign state (ie. the government) can control who enters their property.

 

 

who says a property owner can't control who enters their personal property? utopian pipedream eh? so you agree free movement is ideal.

[MacUK 983]

Just now, smilesammich said:

who says a property owner can't control who enters their personal property? utopian pipedream eh? so you agree free movement is ideal.

You have said that property owners can't control who enters their property when you advocate that governments can't decide who enters their borders. It's just a matter of scale.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, MacUK said:

You have said that property owners can't control who enters their property when you advocate that governments can't decide who enters their borders. It's just a matter of scale.

not scale, but how you interpret basic human right in comparison with arbitrary and all-encompassing potential government action. if you start from the basis that: immigrants = leech on citizens, instead of:  border regulation = leech on basic humans rights, then you're never going to properly envision my "utopian pipedream".

[MacUK 983]

Your fantasy world must be wonderful, I bet it has unicorns and pixie dust too.

 

Personally I prefer reality with rules that prevent us descending in to anarchy.

What happens in your dream world when someone doesn't go along with the "everything's allowed as long as its peaceful" mantra? You slap them gently on the wrist, talk to them about how upset their lawlessness makes you, send them an email using a harsh font?