Locals STUNNED by what Dakota Access protesters LEFT behind [edited title]

[Vengatore 53]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

so your argument is that the purpose of the protest (for white people/hipsters) was to "disparage the native american community"? that doesn't even make sense.

from the video you posted above the act of disparaging was attempted most visibly by the pipeline co. i get being mad about white kids being spoiled and not knowing the true weight of things, but we shouldn't lose sight of the enemy here and that is big oil and the government coddling of big oil. we have to get on to other sources of energy and get systems of delivery for the energy of the future in place.  because meanwhile..this sort of thing is going to continue affecting water/life all over the country http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6487e9e57a8e41d28397a0d8e25882f0/massive-2013-oil-spill-north-dakota-still-not-cleaned. 

 

The hipsters just go there because the Tv cameras are there.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Vengatore said:

 

The hipsters just go there because the Tv cameras are there.

if you say so. i don't know how hipsters think, i can't grow a beard.

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Just now, Vengatore said:

 

The hipsters just go there because the Tv cameras are there.

I'm sure that they'd be thrilled for you to speak for them all just as you enjoy 'white people' speaking for the native Americans 

[Merle 458]

One of my best friends is from ND. He doesn't live there but most of his family does. His dad was telling him how farmers there have had their fences cut, their cattle killed/lost, and their property destroyed by these classless protestors. Farmers who have nothing to do with any of this. 

[YecaCruz 374]

40 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

wasn't there a pipeline employee that was shot while he was pretending to be a protestor? speaking personally i've never once thought nd residents are racist or cruel. i should hope all fingers point to dapl and rest there.

the whole dapl thing reminds me of 'earnest goes to camp'. anway, i feel like we're in the last 15 minutes of that movie. standing rock as very few options at this point to stop anything and we shouldn't be questioning the intentions of those who have given their time/money/presence to assist. 

i can't get on board with the damage from the protesting is intangible. just wait for that first spill. doubtful 'a company' will ever take responsibility to clean anything up without being pushed.

 Hahaha! Earnest movies! Good stuff although the Halloween one scared the bananas out of me as a kid. Glad to know you don't think we're jerks. I also hope fingers do point to DAPL but living here and seeing the facebook attacks against my few friends who speak out against the hypocrisy, photoshopped images, and violent protests suggests otherwise. So unfortunately I do question those who hijack and drown out the original intent and message of the protest of the tribe with their time and money and presence through violence, social media attacks. I can't minimalize what my friend Julie N. has to put with for also standing up for what they see as wrong. I can't to that to Roger's neighbors, the farmer that goes to my church that I mentioned, and the hell that family went through this summer and fall. There is no justification for putting others through that in the name of "what's right". Never. Perhaps this is where we can agree to disagree

 

 I'm just glad the tribe finally spoke up to remove the camps and even finally tried to stop the instigators.

 

 I imagine unless you live here and hear people talking smack about Standing Rock in our really lame mall or the Chinese buffet here in Bismarck the relational damage won't be apparent. But it's here and I hear it. I know people who have been targeted and affected by these protests. There is fallout from that.  

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. It's always interesting to hear what others think and say about this crazy situation.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by JJGussiaas (Gush)

[smilesammich 10,727]

7 minutes ago, JJGussiaas (Gush) said:

 Hahaha! Earnest movies! Good stuff although the Halloween one scared the bananas out of me as a kid. Glad to know you don't think we're jerks. I also hope fingers do point to DAPL but living here and seeing the facebook attacks against my few friends who speak out against the hypocrisy, photoshopped images, and violent protests suggests otherwise. So unfortunately I do question those who hijack and drown out the original intent and message of the protest of the tribe with their time and money and presence through violence, social media attacks. I can't minimalize what my friend Julie N. has to put with for also standing up for what they see as wrong. I can't to that to Roger's neighbors, the farmer that goes to my church that I mentioned, and the hell that family went through this summer and fall. There is no justification for putting others through that in the name of "what's right". Never. Perhaps this is where we can agree to disagree

 

 I'm just glad the tribe finally spoke up to remove the camps and even finally tried to stop the instigators.

 

 I imagine unless you live here and hear people talking smack about Standing Rock in our really lame mall or the Chinese buffet here in Bismarck the relational damage won't be apparent. But it's here and I hear it. I know people who have been targeted and affected by these protests. There is fallout from that.  

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. It's always interesting to hear what others think and say about this crazy situation.

 

in your opinion, do you think it's possible some of the damage to resident/farmer property could have been carried out by pipeline co?  i'm just pretty immune to 'the protesters are the problem' argument, i feel like some people will always be against protesters and cast them in a worthless/destructive light - no matter what the cause is or how many protesters have genuine/righteous/nonviolent demands. speaking round these visa journey parts, protest-haters had a field day with the occupy movement on a derogatory level with zero interest in the wall street corruption they were trying to reign in (or get government to reign in)..

[YecaCruz 374]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

in your opinion, do you think it's possible some of the damage to resident/farmer property could have been carried out by pipeline co?  i'm just pretty immune to 'the protesters are the problem' argument, i feel like some people will always be against protesters and cast them in a worthless/destructive light - no matter what the cause is or how many protesters have genuine/righteous/nonviolent demands. speaking round these visa journey parts, protest-haters had a field day with the occupy movement on a derogatory level with zero interest in the wall street corruption they were trying to reign in (or get government to reign in)..

In my opinion, no. During this protest it wasn't the company that trespassed on farmer properties and sometimes (not always) terrorized them. The company didn't jump on horses and run down an herd of buffalo. The co didn't steal hay for their horses or livestock because they didn't want to make a run to Walmart. They didn't illegally poach deer or spray paint and damage their own equipment. The co didn't burn vehicles and tires then just leave them on the side of the road and ditches for the county to clean up. DAPL didn't routinely turn to facebook to attack local businesses and the police department. The co didn't try to make incendiary devices out of camping propane tanks and then blame police for it. The company didn't show up in Mandan with a pig's head on a stake during Thanksgiving telling the "pilgrims to go home". What does any of that have to do with the protesters disagreeing with DAPL? I don't see the how personally. You care about the environment? Cool, great but don't burn rubber and vehicles with plastic and others fuels as those fumes spill into the air. Don't dig giant holes in the camp ground for all your trash...seems a little opposite of what they are saying. Let your words and your actions match.

 

In this case the protesters were the problem, in my opinion. There didn't seem to be any authority or organization within their group to reign them in when things were getting out of control. Or if there was, many were disregarding said authority. I remember a local news blip about Standing Rock elders telling the instigators to knock it off (my vernacular) but it didn't seem to have an effect. That demonstrates to me that there were a large group of people there who weren't actually there for the tribe or their mission. Elders are so highly regarded and respected in Native American culture and to brush them off like "whatev bro"...really!? If you wanna stand with the tribe then you respect the tribe and all their culture. Does one go on vaca to France and not try to "do as France does"? I would hope so because you are no longer in North America and it's culture. Don't say you've come to stand with them if you don't really give a rat's booty when they request something. 

 Stuff like that gave the original intent of the protest a really bad light; so I'm on the other side of your coin where I find it hard to sympathize with them in many areas in this particular case. I know that there were way more peaceful protesters than the media shows; the ones that actually came to pray and stand by the tribe's decision to stand up for what they believed was wrong. Good. Let them pray, beat the drums and stand united in one voice.

 

The other part of me thinks or wonders for my part as long as I drive my car, fly in a plane, use my cell phone, live in a house, put smelly lotion on my sandpaper-dry hands, all of which are products of petroleum and crude, am I not part of the reason these oil companies exist? If so isn't it hypocritical of me, even in the slightest, to say "oil is the devil, get out of here, we don't want you" and what not? Who will extract the oil to fuel our demands for it if there are no oil companies?

 

I feel like this is way off topic from the article. I hope this isn't considered hijacking a post  But well that's all my opinion since you asked.

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

42 minutes ago, JJGussiaas (Gush) said:

In my opinion, no. During this protest it wasn't the company that trespassed on farmer properties and sometimes (not always) terrorized them. The company didn't jump on horses and run down an herd of buffalo. The co didn't steal hay for their horses or livestock because they didn't want to make a run to Walmart. They didn't illegally poach deer or spray paint and damage their own equipment. The co didn't burn vehicles and tires then just leave them on the side of the road and ditches for the county to clean up. DAPL didn't routinely turn to facebook to attack local businesses and the police department. The co didn't try to make incendiary devices out of camping propane tanks and then blame police for it. The company didn't show up in Mandan with a pig's head on a stake during Thanksgiving telling the "pilgrims to go home". What does any of that have to do with the protesters disagreeing with DAPL? I don't see the how personally. You care about the environment? Cool, great but don't burn rubber and vehicles with plastic and others fuels as those fumes spill into the air. Don't dig giant holes in the camp ground for all your trash...seems a little opposite of what they are saying. Let your words and your actions match.

 

In this case the protesters were the problem, in my opinion. There didn't seem to be any authority or organization within their group to reign them in when things were getting out of control. Or if there was, many were disregarding said authority. I remember a local news blip about Standing Rock elders telling the instigators to knock it off (my vernacular) but it didn't seem to have an effect. That demonstrates to me that there were a large group of people there who weren't actually there for the tribe or their mission. Elders are so highly regarded and respected in Native American culture and to brush them off like "whatev bro"...really!? If you wanna stand with the tribe then you respect the tribe and all their culture. Does one go on vaca to France and not try to "do as France does"? I would hope so because you are no longer in North America and it's culture. Don't say you've come to stand with them if you don't really give a rat's booty when they request something. 

 Stuff like that gave the original intent of the protest a really bad light; so I'm on the other side of your coin where I find it hard to sympathize with them in many areas in this particular case. I know that there were way more peaceful protesters than the media shows; the ones that actually came to pray and stand by the tribe's decision to stand up for what they believed was wrong. Good. Let them pray, beat the drums and stand united in one voice.

 

The other part of me thinks or wonders for my part as long as I drive my car, fly in a plane, use my cell phone, live in a house, put smelly lotion on my sandpaper-dry hands, all of which are products of petroleum and crude, am I not part of the reason these oil companies exist? If so isn't it hypocritical of me, even in the slightest, to say "oil is the devil, get out of here, we don't want you" and what not? Who will extract the oil to fuel our demands for it if there are no oil companies?

 

I feel like this is way off topic from the article. I hope this isn't considered hijacking a post  But well that's all my opinion since you asked.

 

just saying, if the co wanted to get rid of obstruction and have nothing to deal with other than peaceful praying elders the best way to do that is to pretend to be a protester and wreak havoc. its definitely not an unused tactic..so i would assume some amount of that sort of thing went on/will continue with dapl. not saying it all was covert destruction, but i believe the company had a game plan to weaken standing rock's resistance.

i don't think there's any benefit to shame yourself because you use oil, i gas up my car just like everybody else.  the reality is - we need to look towards other sources. i have a feeling the way america works, we're going to have to literally come to the brink of pollution induced extinction or literally dry up every drop before the majority of americans realize something must change. in order to advocate for alternative energy sources does one have to boycott all petroleum and crude products? i don't think so. obama droned thousands, does that mean i can't criticize trump for his failed yemin raid? of course not (now that's off topic).

bottom line i think too much attention is being paid to protesters and not enough attention is being paid to standing rock because ultimately, this is much bigger than standing rock alone. it is about water, access to clean water and future generations.

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

30 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

just saying, if the co wanted to get rid of obstruction and have nothing to deal with other than peaceful praying elders the best way to do that is to pretend to be a protester and wreak havoc. its definitely not an unused tactic..so i would assume some amount of that sort of thing went on/will continue with dapl. not saying it all was covert destruction, but i believe the company had a game plan to weaken standing rock's resistance.

i don't think there's any benefit to shame yourself because you use oil, i gas up my car just like everybody else.  the reality is - we need to look towards other sources. i have a feeling the way america works, we're going to have to literally come to the brink of pollution induced extinction or literally dry up every drop before the majority of americans realize something must change. in order to advocate for alternative energy sources does one have to boycott all petroleum and crude products? i don't think so. obama droned thousands, does that mean i can't criticize trump for his failed yemin raid? of course not (now that's off topic).

bottom line i think too much attention is being paid to protesters and not enough attention is being paid to standing rock because ultimately, this is much bigger than standing rock alone. it is about water, access to clean water and future generations.

 

Pretend to be a protester and wreck havoc.  See sec 1A DNC and Hillary playbook

[Dashinka 23,246]

8 hours ago, smilesammich said:

calm down. start with your assertion that i said the first story was 'wrong' - which i didn't. i said allen west has an agenda (he does) and that agenda includes shaming protesters. it is always about silencing dissent with the right, always.

What is wrong with shaming hypocrites?

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

47 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

just saying, if the co wanted to get rid of obstruction and have nothing to deal with other than peaceful praying elders the best way to do that is to pretend to be a protester and wreak havoc. its definitely not an unused tactic..so i would assume some amount of that sort of thing went on/will continue with dapl. not saying it all was covert destruction, but i believe the company had a game plan to weaken standing rock's resistance.

 

 

I think those of us who live near reservations in this area know that there are definitely some bad apples already existing amongst the bunch.  It isn't something I blame them for after both our country and Canada tried to destroy their cultures until the very recent past and haven't since done much to help them.  That being said, I can't discount that those who commit felonies in other aspects of their lives, might very well commit felonies while protesting.  It would not be surprising.

 

This isn't also to ignore that some mentally unstable people might have been attracted to protest at DAPL from outside communities as well.

Edited February 9, 2017 by N-o-l-a

[smilesammich 10,727]

55 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Pretend to be a protester and wreck havoc.  See sec 1A DNC and Hillary playbook

this tactic goes back way farther than that..

[smilesammich 10,727]

53 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

What is wrong with shaming hypocrites?

1st amendment buddy, protesting is fundamental. i get that you hate hippies, but i have to ask... you don't think standing rock should protest? what else can they do, chances are their water will be affected in the near future.

[OriZ 3,157]

4 hours ago, smilesammich said:

in your opinion, do you think it's possible some of the damage to resident/farmer property could have been carried out by pipeline co?  i'm just pretty immune to 'the protesters are the problem' argument, i feel like some people will always be against protesters and cast them in a worthless/destructive light - no matter what the cause is or how many protesters have genuine/righteous/nonviolent demands. speaking round these visa journey parts, protest-haters had a field day with the occupy movement on a derogatory level with zero interest in the wall street corruption they were trying to reign in (or get government to reign in)..

Believe it or not I'm not a fan of wall st. I enjoy taking as much money away from them as I can. But you and I both know that's not all the occupy movement was about. 

 

PS if you think pipelines are bad, try trains. Oh wait.

[smilesammich 10,727]

19 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Believe it or not I'm not a fan of wall st. I enjoy taking as much money away from them as I can. But you and I both know that's not all the occupy movement was about. 

 

PS if you think pipelines are bad, try trains. Oh wait.

a well regulated wall street would be fine by me. and im definitely not making any money off wall street, im more like soylent green for the wall street machine.