Marriage ceremony in US, without legal paperwork filed

[Pennycat 880]

thomahal--

Sorry, but it sounds like you're just asking for trouble here. Honestly, you may have to just chalk this up to learning things the hard way (which a lot of people here have). Yes, the US immigration process is really long and difficult, even for people from [fill in whatever country your wife is from]. From now on, try to keep USCIS in the back of your head at all times, and don't do anything until you consider how it will impact your immigration process. Welcome to "Stockholm" :/ This is sort of what the whole "the immigration system is broken" thing is all about but I digress.

Basically, it sounds like you'd be playing a dangerous game on claiming to not be "really" married, which could have the K1 denied and you'd have to go for CR1 but then you wouldn't have the marriage certificate to show for a CR1 and then you've got a big problem in addition to having wasted nearly $1000 and 5 or so months on the K1. Submit your marriage licence, prepare CR1 and hope that you're one of the ones to come through faster than others.

Any sort of monkey business from here on out is just going to open you up to bigger problems than you've got now. If you're willing to take that gamble, I suppose that's your decision, but no one here will either advise that (having seen now badly things can go) nor really *can* based on the legality of such monkey business and this site's terms of service.

[The Burts 6]

Jeez..... This whole thing sounds very confusing and troublesome that might will risk your future with your beloved one.

Since whats done is done and you are looking for help here, I would like to ask you to be straight forward and truthful to VisaJourney since we are all like one big family here and willing to lend a helping hand wherever we can.

We are all going through this very stressful journey and long process so that we can be reunited with our loved ones. Please check some of my answers and questions in red fonts.

Hi and thanks for any help you can give.

I had no concept precisely how Byzantine this whole process would be. I have gotten pieces of information from many sources which have seemed to indicate several different courses of actions. I won't go through all the twists and turns, but instead will try to give a brief summary that may help in getting an answer as to where to go from here.

I am a US citizen. I am trying to get officially married to a woman from New Zealand and have her immigrate to the US. What does official marriage mean in US?

I visited her in NZ for 3 months and she visited me here for 3 months.

I asked her to marry me and, weirdly enough, she said yes (while visiting me here in the States). So we started in on having a ceremony. What type of ceremony did you have and where did it took place? Im sorry for asking much, but I am trying to figure out how we can help you through this.

Everything I had read to that point indicated that a K3 visa would get her here in a reasonable time frame after she returned to NZ following her visit here (since her tourist visa was going to be up very quickly after the wedding). K3 is a non-immigrant Visa for married partners that I guess would need you to file your marriage certificate.

Basically, ON THE EVE OF THE CEREMONY, I started to see people saying that yes, there is a bunch of info from the Government site and on tons of "visa help" sites regarding the wonders of the K3 visa- but, as it turns out, it is, basically, all BS.

I see.

OK, after all the planning and searching.... now what?

We are not willing to wait for over a year to start our marriage. So ok, we will not file the Marriage Certificate and will bring her over on a K1, gladly repay the Marriage license fee, and register the marriage without another ceremony in the 90 days we have after her arrival. If you have the Marriage Certificate, file for CR-1. I think the time frame is almost the same as the K1 that you are trying to do. In my opinion, I think being honest might will help you better and reunite soon then cheating the system and risk your future.

After searching this site, I have seen several questions re: religious and other ceremonies performed IN OTHER COUNTRIES with different answers given, but nothing specifically addressing our situation. In my country Namibia, we got only 2 official ceremonies regarding marriage (1. Magistrate Court Wedding Ceremony & 2. Church Wedding Ceremony and both issues married certificates that recognized by law and registered on the same day of your ceremony). We have had a ceremony here in the States, but have not filed the paperwork. Some of this ceremonies, we call them Family introductions, Lobola/Bridal Price We are not legally married or Engagement Party when you not legally married yet. Does anyone have any sure answers as to how this is going to affect the K1 visa application?

Thanks again for any information you can give.

Welcome to Visa Journey and good luck with all that you have to do.

Monika

[KayDeeCee 4,900]

Trying to file for a K-1 after already getting married sounds like a horrible idea. Why not just register the marriage with the courts and file for a spousal visa? You both can still visit each other while waiting.

[thomahal 6]

First of all I want to thank everyone here for responding to my issue. This response is beyond anything I could have possibly imagined when first posting and I am very grateful for your time.

Initial clarifications: Marriage licensed is not filed- the ceremony was performed by my Father, a retired Minister, so we are sure on this point. Yes, simple courthouse procedure will of course need to be done when (/if!) we get to that point. That's what I was intending to get across by noting that we would get another license- sorry if I was not clear as I could have been on all of these and more.

I will next need to respond to those who have taken the occasion to call me a liar.

I was very explicit in my post- we had a marriage ceremony in all good faith because of what we were being told by the USCIS on their website re: the K3 visa. As posters on this very thread have noted, this posted information is, at a minimum, wildly inaccurate (Maria&Seve: "Well the K3 doesn't exist anymore").

Sure, I should have researched the the K3 visa on many sites (and several different kinds of sites), found the page on the USCIS https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas ...and immediately understood- oh, obviously all this information on this government website that I have been directed to is absolutely useless and misleading.

Shame on me. Obviously "it is your fault for not researching it enough." People being told one thing here and another thing there- yep, first step is to blame the people asking the question.

Clearly. And thank you for your brilliant contribution.

Then on being told, for the first time, in free content on a site making money from helping people with this perfectly clear and straight forward process that I am too stupid and dishonest to navigate my way through, that yes it is still listed, promoted, directed to, people still are taking money to help you file it... but uh, it doesn't mean anything anymore, I had to scramble to figure out what to do next.

Since the certificate had not been filed and since one site stated unequivocally (and some of the posters on this thread have pretty strongly indicated) that ceremony and legal registration are two completely separate things and specifically that the USCIS does not care at all about ceremonies only the legal registration (and since that logically makes sense to me- thus the requirement to return the license for legal registration as a final step to differentiate it from "just" a ceremony) I said fine, we'll just let people know that our ceremony stated we loved each other, we were committed to each other, and we are ready to share our lives together and we could wait for the official documentation at a time when the USCIS would, apparently, prefer that it occur.

At no time did we have ANY intention to lie to ANYONE- thus the dang post out in the dang open here on this forum, our not filing ANYTHING while I TRY and get a straight answer from SOMEONE and the multitudinous pictures we shared from the ceremony on social media, etc., etc., etc.

Please do NOT pretend that this is some kind of cut and dried issue. Please do NOT insult either myself or my wife or our integrity. Please, the few of you who were like this, get the hell of your high horse and LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL POST. We have been told a great variety of things INCLUDING IN THIS THREAD! And we are simply TRYING to get some kind of reliable information as to what the heck is going on. We will not even be OPEN to any kind of dishonest or unethical way to proceed even if people think it would work.

That is as kindly as I can (or will) respond to people unjustifiably calling me a liar.

Now to the issue at hand. It sounds like there is no way to be sure what the USCIS will do since there seems to be no clear definition of what they view as a "marriage." Interesting cultural arguments aside, I am surprised that this is so with an agency that would seem to have a great need to be explicit on this point. Again, since neither of us have any intention whatsoever of doing anything other than being perfectly open (nor did the original post give anyone reason to jump to that conclusion, in my opinion), it sounds like that is a question that needs a clear answer.

[it is very confusing to me because I see the whole point of legal registration as a way to prevent people from just saying, “Yeah, ok, we're married now,” and start to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage without being legally bound to the obligations that come with it. That seems to offer a clear demarcation and a sensible one at that. While we are thrilled we were able to give our loving commitment to each other before family and friends, we have no intentions of enjoying the legal benefits of marriage until we are legally bound by the obligations that come with it.]

It further sounds like a clear answer may be very difficult to obtain (at least) since, as several have pointed out, there is apparently a great deal of discretion of the individual interviewer as to how to view all this (how sure are people of this?)

So my first FU question is: is there a way to simply get a clear, straight answer from the USCIS? I have been told that calling their number is simply useless (very interesting thread here on that and other issues: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/220499-k-1-petition-information/ “OK, why can't we get through to you? The 1-800 line is useless. Those are contract employees and they are trained to select answers from a menu of 14 answers. They pick which one is best for your question. “). Are there other ways that people here have experience with reliably cutting through conflicting information with the USCIS? We are fully intending to follow the rules- gee, would it be great if it was at all clear what those are.

My second FU question is: some are saying that the CR-1 does not take a LOT longer to process. I am getting used to the idea that 10 different answers on these questions will contain 10 different sets of data... but I am seeing elsewhere that the difference is more than double- so like 5-7 months for K1, 13-16 months for CR-1. We were still considering this as it sounds like she would be able to work sooner with the CR-1. But folks, while every couple is different- I'm sorry, but for sure with us, double the time apart is no small thing. Maybe that is partly due to me being 51 and my wife being in her forties and this being a first marriage for both, don't know; but wow is that tough for us. We can do it, yes- but not a small thing, folks.

As to the post about it being "illegal" to not turn your marriage license in- uh, I think that needs to be reread? I am sure that if a couple WANTS it to be turned in, it is indeed illegal for a “recorder” or an “officer” to impede the process. That just does not sound at all like a couple that doesn't turn in the paperwork is committing some kind of crime. Not any kind of lawyer, so obviously could be wrong on that point- anyone with more info on this (where exactly does the quote come from?).

Alright, huge post, I am sorry for that. And again I am grateful for all replies and also again I will confront those that I feel are unjust.

[Meant2B 8]

It sounds very shaky what you want to do. You said you filed for the marriage license and had ceremony. They may check since she's visited here. Also you are playing with fraud by lying. It seems safer/wiser to just do it legal have the officiant file the paperwork and go for the CR1. Yes it will take longer but you've already done the ceremony and that's the legal way. It seems you are asking us here for advice on fraud and that's a no way. Were you married by a minister, justice of peace (if done in a courthouse, there's definitely a paper/computer record of it)? They keep paperwork so it can come back to bite you later.

[thomahal 6]

Meant2B, assume you didn't get a chance to read what I wrote above your post.

Meant2B, assume you didn't get a chance to read what I wrote above your post.

Sorry, somehow posted it twice (?)

Edited August 16, 2016 by thomahal

[Shauneg 763]

First of all I want to thank everyone here for responding to my issue. This response is beyond anything I could have possibly imagined when first posting and I am very grateful for your time.

Initial clarifications: Marriage licensed is not filed- the ceremony was performed by my Father, a retired Minister, so we are sure on this point. Yes, simple courthouse procedure will of course need to be done when (/if!) we get to that point. That's what I was intending to get across by noting that we would get another license- sorry if I was not clear as I could have been on all of these and more.

I will next need to respond to those who have taken the occasion to call me a liar.

I was very explicit in my post- we had a marriage ceremony in all good faith because of what we were being told by the USCIS on their website re: the K3 visa. As posters on this very thread have noted, this posted information is, at a minimum, wildly inaccurate (Maria&Seve: "Well the K3 doesn't exist anymore").

Sure, I should have researched the the K3 visa on many sites (and several different kinds of sites), found the page on the USCIS https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas ...and immediately understood- oh, obviously all this information on this government website that I have been directed to is absolutely useless and misleading.

Shame on me. Obviously "it is your fault for not researching it enough." People being told one thing here and another thing there- yep, first step is to blame the people asking the question.

Clearly. And thank you for your brilliant contribution.

Then on being told, for the first time, in free content on a site making money from helping people with this perfectly clear and straight forward process that I am too stupid and dishonest to navigate my way through, that yes it is still listed, promoted, directed to, people still are taking money to help you file it... but uh, it doesn't mean anything anymore, I had to scramble to figure out what to do next.

Since the certificate had not been filed and since one site stated unequivocally (and some of the posters on this thread have pretty strongly indicated) that ceremony and legal registration are two completely separate things and specifically that the USCIS does not care at all about ceremonies only the legal registration (and since that logically makes sense to me- thus the requirement to return the license for legal registration as a final step to differentiate it from "just" a ceremony) I said fine, we'll just let people know that our ceremony stated we loved each other, we were committed to each other, and we are ready to share our lives together and we could wait for the official documentation at a time when the USCIS would, apparently, prefer that it occur.

At no time did we have ANY intention to lie to ANYONE- thus the dang post out in the dang open here on this forum, our not filing ANYTHING while I TRY and get a straight answer from SOMEONE and the multitudinous pictures we shared from the ceremony on social media, etc., etc., etc.

Please do NOT pretend that this is some kind of cut and dried issue. Please do NOT insult either myself or my wife or our integrity. Please, the few of you who were like this, get the hell of your high horse and LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL POST. We have been told a great variety of things INCLUDING IN THIS THREAD! And we are simply TRYING to get some kind of reliable information as to what the heck is going on. We will not even be OPEN to any kind of dishonest or unethical way to proceed even if people think it would work.

That is as kindly as I can (or will) respond to people unjustifiably calling me a liar.

Now to the issue at hand. It sounds like there is no way to be sure what the USCIS will do since there seems to be no clear definition of what they view as a "marriage." Interesting cultural arguments aside, I am surprised that this is so with an agency that would seem to have a great need to be explicit on this point. Again, since neither of us have any intention whatsoever of doing anything other than being perfectly open (nor did the original post give anyone reason to jump to that conclusion, in my opinion), it sounds like that is a question that needs a clear answer.

[it is very confusing to me because I see the whole point of legal registration as a way to prevent people from just saying, “Yeah, ok, we're married now,” and start to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage without being legally bound to the obligations that come with it. That seems to offer a clear demarcation and a sensible one at that. While we are thrilled we were able to give our loving commitment to each other before family and friends, we have no intentions of enjoying the legal benefits of marriage until we are legally bound by the obligations that come with it.]

It further sounds like a clear answer may be very difficult to obtain (at least) since, as several have pointed out, there is apparently a great deal of discretion of the individual interviewer as to how to view all this (how sure are people of this?)

So my first FU question is: is there a way to simply get a clear, straight answer from the USCIS? I have been told that calling their number is simply useless (very interesting thread here on that and other issues: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/220499-k-1-petition-information/ “OK, why can't we get through to you? The 1-800 line is useless. Those are contract employees and they are trained to select answers from a menu of 14 answers. They pick which one is best for your question. “). Are there other ways that people here have experience with reliably cutting through conflicting information with the USCIS? We are fully intending to follow the rules- gee, would it be great if it was at all clear what those are.

My second FU question is: some are saying that the CR-1 does not take a LOT longer to process. I am getting used to the idea that 10 different answers on these questions will contain 10 different sets of data... but I am seeing elsewhere that the difference is more than double- so like 5-7 months for K1, 13-16 months for CR-1. We were still considering this as it sounds like she would be able to work sooner with the CR-1. But folks, while every couple is different- I'm sorry, but for sure with us, double the time apart is no small thing. Maybe that is partly due to me being 51 and my wife being in her forties and this being a first marriage for both, don't know; but wow is that tough for us. We can do it, yes- but not a small thing, folks.

As to the post about it being "illegal" to not turn your marriage license in- uh, I think that needs to be reread? I am sure that if a couple WANTS it to be turned in, it is indeed illegal for a “recorder” or an “officer” to impede the process. That just does not sound at all like a couple that doesn't turn in the paperwork is committing some kind of crime. Not any kind of lawyer, so obviously could be wrong on that point- anyone with more info on this (where exactly does the quote come from?).

Alright, huge post, I am sorry for that. And again I am grateful for all replies and also again I will confront those that I feel are unjust.

Sure no problem.....

Penalty for solemnizing marriage without license, or failing to keep arecord thereof.

451.120. Any person who shall solemnize any marriage wherein the parties have not obtained a license, as provided by this chapter, or shall fail to keep a record of the solemnization of any marriage, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be fined not exceeding five hundred dollars, and in addition shall be subject to a civil action by the parent, conservator or other person having care or custody of the person so married, to whom services are due wherein the recovery shall not exceed the sum of five hundred dollars; and any recorder who shall issue a license contrary to the provisions of this chapter shall be subject to a like punishment.

Penalty for failure to issue, record or return license.

451.130. 1. If any recorder willfully neglect or refuse to issue a license to any person legally entitled thereto on application, on payment or tender of the fee provided for in section 451.150, or shall fail to refuse to record such license, with the return thereon, as herein provided, he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be fined in any sum not less than five nor more than one hundred dollars.

2. Every officer or person who shall fail to return a license within fifteen days after the issuing of the same, or who shall make a false return thereon, or any recorder who shall willfully make a false record of any marriage license or return thereon, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished as provided in the preceding part of this section.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/chapters/chapText451.html

[thomahal 6]

Shauneg: Thank you very much for the link. I guess I am still not understanding how this could possibly be read to mean anything other than that the "officer" and the "recorder" have to follow through in the ways described. But I can call the Local Recorder office here, where we paid for the license, and ask them. Thanks for the info and the link in any case.

[Shauneg 763]

Shauneg: Thank you very much for the link. I guess I am still not understanding how this could possibly be read to mean anything other than that the "officer" and the "recorder" have to follow through in the ways described. But I can call the Local Recorder office here, where we paid for the license, and ask them. Thanks for the info and the link in any case.

It doesn't say only if the couple wants them to. Would it be failing to keep a record?

451.120. Any person who shall solemnize any marriage wherein the parties have not obtained a license, as provided by this chapter, or shall fail to keep a record of the solemnization of any marriage, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be fined not exceeding five hundred dollars, and in addition shall be subject to a civil action by the parent,

Maybe it is just best to call and ask. Might your father know? I truly wish you luck and hope you can go your K1 route without hiccups. I am interested in hearing their response to you.

[Penguin_ie 5,999]

On your questions:

- I think you don't need to ask USCIS (and yes, it is very very difficult to get a straight answer out of them- we call their callcenter the "missinformation line" around here); I think you need to call your local court house, perhaps ask your dad who has experience with this, or a couple of local lawyers who know about matrimonial law.

- You are mostly correct with your timelines; K1 takes about 6 months, CR-1 about a year. As mentioned, she could visit during this time, just not live with/ work in the USA.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Penguin_ie

[thomahal 6]

It doesn't say only if the couple wants them to. Would it be failing to keep a record?

451.120. Any person who shall solemnize any marriage wherein the parties have not obtained a license, as provided by this chapter, or shall fail to keep a record of the solemnization of any marriage, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be fined not exceeding five hundred dollars, and in addition shall be subject to a civil action by the parent,

Maybe it is just best to call and ask. Might your father know? I truly wish you luck and hope you can go your K1 route without hiccups. I am interested in hearing their response to you.

I will call them and try to post their response here.

I think if I did turn in the marriage certificate and the Recorder failed to keep a record of it, then yeah, they would be liable. You can tell, I think, from the beginning of this statute and the others quoted that they are directed at "Any person who shall solemnize any marriage..." etc. We were the solemnizees, not the solemnizers .

So I think all this is clearly directed at the "officer," the "recorder" that receives a filed license and fails to register/process it. But like I said, I should call to make sure- I could have that wrong. Dad was sure it was not a problem at all to simply not turn it in and have it voided as a result.

Thanks for the luck... whatever the outcome here, I am thinking we are going to need it ! And our Best Wishes to everyone here in their visa journeys as well!

[O&GForever 387]

Since the certificate had not been filed and since one site stated unequivocally (and some of the posters on this thread have pretty strongly indicated) that ceremony and legal registration are two completely separate things and specifically that the USCIS does not care at all about ceremonies only the legal registration (and since that logically makes sense to me- thus the requirement to return the license for legal registration as a final step to differentiate it from "just" a ceremony) I said fine, we'll just let people know that our ceremony stated we loved each other, we were committed to each other, and we are ready to share our lives together and we could wait for the official documentation at a time when the USCIS would, apparently, prefer that it occur.

I would caution you in telling the government you just had a ceremony to show your love each other, especially if you choose to go through with the K1 visa. When it comes time for the interview, the consulate could interpret that as a wedding. If you look through this site, you will find many stories of couples having cultural ceremonies or family celebrations. The consulate viewed the couple as married even if the couple didn't consider themselves to be. I am one of those couples. We an engagement party with my no in-laws. No vows were exchanged or rings given. No license was signed or registered with the government. Yet the consulate said we were husband and wife and denied our K1. We are now having to go through the CR1 process, which means more money and more time apart. Yes, some of the denials were because of the country the visa was going through, but it does serve as a reminder for others too. Just something to think about.

[cdneh 3,112]

First of all I want to thank everyone here for responding to my issue. This response is beyond anything I could have possibly imagined when first posting and I am very grateful for your time.

Initial clarifications: Marriage licensed is not filed- the ceremony was performed by my Father, a retired Minister, so we are sure on this point. Yes, simple courthouse procedure will of course need to be done when (/if!) we get to that point. That's what I was intending to get across by noting that we would get another license- sorry if I was not clear as I could have been on all of these and more.

I will next need to respond to those who have taken the occasion to call me a liar.

I was very explicit in my post- we had a marriage ceremony in all good faith because of what we were being told by the USCIS on their website re: the K3 visa. As posters on this very thread have noted, this posted information is, at a minimum, wildly inaccurate (Maria&Seve: "Well the K3 doesn't exist anymore").

Sure, I should have researched the the K3 visa on many sites (and several different kinds of sites), found the page on the USCIS https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas ...and immediately understood- oh, obviously all this information on this government website that I have been directed to is absolutely useless and misleading.

Shame on me. Obviously "it is your fault for not researching it enough." People being told one thing here and another thing there- yep, first step is to blame the people asking the question.

Clearly. And thank you for your brilliant contribution.

Then on being told, for the first time, in free content on a site making money from helping people with this perfectly clear and straight forward process that I am too stupid and dishonest to navigate my way through, that yes it is still listed, promoted, directed to, people still are taking money to help you file it... but uh, it doesn't mean anything anymore, I had to scramble to figure out what to do next.

Since the certificate had not been filed and since one site stated unequivocally (and some of the posters on this thread have pretty strongly indicated) that ceremony and legal registration are two completely separate things and specifically that the USCIS does not care at all about ceremonies only the legal registration (and since that logically makes sense to me- thus the requirement to return the license for legal registration as a final step to differentiate it from "just" a ceremony) I said fine, we'll just let people know that our ceremony stated we loved each other, we were committed to each other, and we are ready to share our lives together and we could wait for the official documentation at a time when the USCIS would, apparently, prefer that it occur.

At no time did we have ANY intention to lie to ANYONE- thus the dang post out in the dang open here on this forum, our not filing ANYTHING while I TRY and get a straight answer from SOMEONE and the multitudinous pictures we shared from the ceremony on social media, etc., etc., etc.

Please do NOT pretend that this is some kind of cut and dried issue. Please do NOT insult either myself or my wife or our integrity. Please, the few of you who were like this, get the hell of your high horse and LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL POST. We have been told a great variety of things INCLUDING IN THIS THREAD! And we are simply TRYING to get some kind of reliable information as to what the heck is going on. We will not even be OPEN to any kind of dishonest or unethical way to proceed even if people think it would work.

That is as kindly as I can (or will) respond to people unjustifiably calling me a liar.

Now to the issue at hand. It sounds like there is no way to be sure what the USCIS will do since there seems to be no clear definition of what they view as a "marriage." Interesting cultural arguments aside, I am surprised that this is so with an agency that would seem to have a great need to be explicit on this point. Again, since neither of us have any intention whatsoever of doing anything other than being perfectly open (nor did the original post give anyone reason to jump to that conclusion, in my opinion), it sounds like that is a question that needs a clear answer.

[it is very confusing to me because I see the whole point of legal registration as a way to prevent people from just saying, “Yeah, ok, we're married now,” and start to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage without being legally bound to the obligations that come with it. That seems to offer a clear demarcation and a sensible one at that. While we are thrilled we were able to give our loving commitment to each other before family and friends, we have no intentions of enjoying the legal benefits of marriage until we are legally bound by the obligations that come with it.]

It further sounds like a clear answer may be very difficult to obtain (at least) since, as several have pointed out, there is apparently a great deal of discretion of the individual interviewer as to how to view all this (how sure are people of this?)

So my first FU question is: is there a way to simply get a clear, straight answer from the USCIS? I have been told that calling their number is simply useless (very interesting thread here on that and other issues: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/220499-k-1-petition-information/ “OK, why can't we get through to you? The 1-800 line is useless. Those are contract employees and they are trained to select answers from a menu of 14 answers. They pick which one is best for your question. “). Are there other ways that people here have experience with reliably cutting through conflicting information with the USCIS? We are fully intending to follow the rules- gee, would it be great if it was at all clear what those are.

My second FU question is: some are saying that the CR-1 does not take a LOT longer to process. I am getting used to the idea that 10 different answers on these questions will contain 10 different sets of data... but I am seeing elsewhere that the difference is more than double- so like 5-7 months for K1, 13-16 months for CR-1. We were still considering this as it sounds like she would be able to work sooner with the CR-1. But folks, while every couple is different- I'm sorry, but for sure with us, double the time apart is no small thing. Maybe that is partly due to me being 51 and my wife being in her forties and this being a first marriage for both, don't know; but wow is that tough for us. We can do it, yes- but not a small thing, folks.

As to the post about it being "illegal" to not turn your marriage license in- uh, I think that needs to be reread? I am sure that if a couple WANTS it to be turned in, it is indeed illegal for a “recorder” or an “officer” to impede the process. That just does not sound at all like a couple that doesn't turn in the paperwork is committing some kind of crime. Not any kind of lawyer, so obviously could be wrong on that point- anyone with more info on this (where exactly does the quote come from?).

Alright, huge post, I am sorry for that. And again I am grateful for all replies and also again I will confront those that I feel are unjust.

Now that you've typed your novella, and got all of your righteous indignation off your chest, pay attention. You are married. You yourself call the lady in question your wife. If you would like to run the risk of trying your shenanigans out on the USCIS, knock yourself out. Be aware, you may create a longer separation than you hope by trying what you are suggesting.

If you come on to a public forum, and ask your questions, you may get answers that you do not like. Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them wrong. You are misunderstanding the intent of the people who took the time to respond to you. No one is attacking you. People are trying to help you. Just because you believe other websites have lied to you, or confused you, or you feel aggrieved because you failed to do due diligence, don't expect people on VJ to instruct you on how to circumvent the rules. No one is going to hand you validation for that. Not on VJ.

I am not sure what you think your age has to do with anything. My husband and I were 56 and 58, are you suggesting we should have had special consideration because our advanced years meant the potential of a shorted time together? Seriously? I would like to have known that, really, having those nearly two years of my life held hostage by the government. Would have been nice to get that time back, and get a chance to enjoy finally being together in the same country, instead of standing over my husband's hospital bed, hoping an organ donor would magically appear.

You are married. File for the correct Visa, which is a CR-1.

[thomahal 6]

On your questions:

- I think you don't need to ask USCIS (and yes, it is very very difficult to get a straight answer out of them- we call their callcenter the "missinformation line" around here); I think you need to call your local court house, perhaps ask your dad who has experience with this, or a couple of local lawyers who know about matrimonial law.

- You are mostly correct with your timelines; K1 takes about 6 months, CR-1 about a year. As mentioned, she could visit during this time, just not live with/ work in the USA.

I may be wrong, but the matrimonial law does not at all seem to be in question here. If you do not file your license, you are not legally married (again, I will double check tomorrow, but Dad was pretty clear about that and it is very difficult to imagine a world (to me) where your marriage would not need to be registered in order to be legally binding).

Instead, it seems to be all about how the USCIS views the situation even though the matrimonial law seems to be a no brainer (famous last words, we'll know more after the call). There are multiple threads on the forum re: OVERSEAS ceremonies of all kinds and some of the respondents above mention some of them. But the law here in the US SEEMS to be clear, we are not legally married yet.

If this IS any kind of big deal to the USCIS even given this, we will adjust accordingly, absolutely... but that kinda brings me right back to the need to ask the USCIS . That seems to be the pertinent question- is a non-binding ceremony somehow a problem. I have been told no, not at all. I have been told... uh, maybe. I have been told, yes. I have been referred to in the way I have been referred to by some of the posters here.

Welcome to the wonderful world of visa applications, I guess?

*reason for edit: SOMEHOW I am making double posts- sorry, will try to figure out what I am doing wrong.

Edited August 16, 2016 by thomahal

[EM_Vandaveer 2,423]

I will call them and try to post their response here.

I think if I did turn in the marriage certificate and the Recorder failed to keep a record of it, then yeah, they would be liable. You can tell, I think, from the beginning of this statute and the others quoted that they are directed at "Any person who shall solemnize any marriage..." etc. We were the solemnizees, not the solemnizers .

So I think all this is clearly directed at the "officer," the "recorder" that receives a filed license and fails to register/process it. But like I said, I should call to make sure- I could have that wrong. Dad was sure it was not a problem at all to simply not turn it in and have it voided as a result.

Thanks for the luck... whatever the outcome here, I am thinking we are going to need it ! And our Best Wishes to everyone here in their visa journeys as well!

Your father is the "solemnizer", do you want him to do something illegal?