Citizenship

[ZedbraGuy 6]

This might seem like a strange question to some and I'm not knocking your decision, but I have noticed that most people on VJ see gaining US citizenship as something of a certainty

My question is why?

I know as a citizen you can vote, but the system is broken so that doesn't really appeal to me

You can commit a felony without being deported, but again as I'm not a criminal that isn't important

So the only other benefit I can see is you remove the need to deal with the USCIS every ten years

I'm not American, I never will be and I am proud of where I come from

But why is it that most people seem to consider it as an inevitable part of the migration process

[Brian&Larissa 73]

This is a very personal choice. Becoming a citizen of the USA does not reduce someone's pride of where they came from. I speak for myself, but this decision is between my fiance and myself. Ultimately, it is my fiance's decision. Benefit of attaining citizenship: Easier to travel on a US Passport. Could she travel on a GC? Yes, but still more difficult. Does this sound vane? Yes, but it is truth. Most countries have no extreme visa process for a US citizen. Not all countries, but most. Are there economic benefits in becoming a US citizen? I am not 100% sure, but I really don't see any. Over time it would be cheaper as we wouldn't have to renew the GC and deal with USCIS, as you pointed out.

Always be proud of where you came from. Guess what: That is exactly what the USA is all about. The USA was/is a melting pot. Be proud of your heritage. That is what the USA is all about. Be proud to be an American, if you choose.

Respect everyone and everyone will respect you.

[christeen 966]

One word in our case... Options! My husband liked having the option of taking a job outside the USA and have the option of returning without any hassle regardless of how long he stayed out. No limits on how long he can remain outside the USA. Immigration laws change so having a second citizenship keeps all options open. He also had the option of transferring his maritime licence to the USA. For some, it opens the door to more job opportunities. And finally, not knowing what the future may bring, he liked havi g the option of staying here or go g to Europe and choosing what passport will gain him the easiest access when traveling abroad. It really had nothing to do with feeling "American" versus Italian, but since he lives here now and work here in the USA why not it if makes it easier?

I got my italian citizenship not because I feel a specific kinship to Italy, but because regardless of what immigration laws might come not place in the future, I will always have the option to go ther, live over ther etc..

So for many it is not a matter of having to give up anything or be less proud of where you are from, but a matter of both g to lose from doing it and only a gain. I think you may be putting more weight on the patriotic aspect and symbolic parts of citizenship versus the practical and economic and versatility it offers.

One word in our case... Options! My husband liked having the option of taking a job outside the USA and have the option of returning without any hassle regardless of how long he stayed out. No limits on how long he can remain outside the USA. Immigration laws change so having a second citizenship keeps all options open. He also had the option of transferring his maritime licence to the USA. For some, it opens the door to more job opportunities. And finally, not knowing what the future may bring, he liked havi g the option of staying here or go g to Europe and choosing what passport will gain him the easiest access when traveling abroad. It really had nothing to do with feeling "American" versus Italian, but since he lives here now and work here in the USA why not it if makes it easier?

I got my italian citizenship not because I feel a specific kinship to Italy, but because regardless of what immigration laws might come not place in the future, I will always have the option to go ther, live over ther etc..

So for many it is not a matter of having to give up anything or be less proud of where you are from, but a matter of both g to lose from doing it and only a gain. I think you may be putting more weight on the patriotic aspect and symbolic parts of citizenship versus the practical and economic and versatility it offers.

Plus it is REALLY easy (the easiest part of this whole immigration journey) and when your done... Your DONE with immigration! Good feeling and worth every penny!

[fantonledzepp 159]

If your country of origin allows dual citizenship, why not? It doesn't diminish your heritage. That's my opinion.

[ManCharsey 254]

The only thing about US citizenship I detest is the never ending taxes a citizen has to pay till they die lol (even taxes on social security smh). Other countries compared to the US pay just about 20% of the taxes the US pay...but then, comparing it to the benefits to be derived from it, I believe it is all worth it too.

[Ontarkie 13,917]

~~Moved to US Citizenship General Discussion , from Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion~~

[VickyP 34]

This might seem like a strange question to some and I'm not knocking your decision, but I have noticed that most people on VJ see gaining US citizenship as something of a certainty

My question is why?

I know as a citizen you can vote, but the system is broken so that doesn't really appeal to me

You can commit a felony without being deported, but again as I'm not a criminal that isn't important

So the only other benefit I can see is you remove the need to deal with the USCIS every ten years

I'm not American, I never will be and I am proud of where I come from

But why is it that most people seem to consider it as an inevitable part of the migration process

Zebra Guy I was asking myself the same question every once in a while but I do understand there are certain decisions that some people have to make to either be able to get the job they want or have less stress in certain circumstances.

But yeah..I am not American either and I will never be, too.

[JimmyHou 610]

All of the answers above are really good ones. Ease of travel is an obvious reason for anyone without a passport that gets you into most of the world without a visa. Permanence and stability is another one; for hose of us who no longer have ties to your former country, then why not take the plunge and become an American? I plan on maintaining my current citizenship, but others may not care.

Another reason is freedom; I know, this sounds like a cliche, but everyone on VJ comes from countries with varying degrees of civil liberties and oppression. Some people on here got their green cards through asylum and have gone through things that make them want to forget their home countries. Others love their home countries but know they can't go back. People who would be discriminated against on the basis of sexual identity or gender or race or religion may feel safer with a US passport, even if they travel back home. In fact, even without discrimination, many countries treat Western citizens better than their own people as soon as they land at the airport. I'm not saying that the US is discrimination-free or that there aren't countries that are further along in this area than the US, but the US does offer a good balance of freedom, economic opportunity, and a reasonable immigration process.

Finally, I think some people just fall in love with this country; I know I'm one of them. The political system is broken, there's a lot of anger, there's corruption and gun violence and crumbling infrastructure, but it's still a country that took US in when it didn't have to. I was allowed to study here, to get a job, to buy a house, to travel freely, to settle permanently, and to apply for citizenship hopefully soon! The US hasn't handed us anything on a silver platter; everything's been a struggle, but the country has offered us an opportunity to work our butts off and see how well we could do. Citizenship is just own more opportunity to work towards. The citizenship oath is oddly worded and anachronistic, but a lot of people on here take it seriously and a lot of us wouldn't think twice about fighting for our adopted country. I honestly think that if I didn't feel this way, I would just keep my green card. It's an inconvenience having to get a visa to go to Europe, but it takes 3 weeks to get a Schengen visa and the UK is pretty generous with multiple-year visas, so I can handle the inconvenience.

So I guess for me citizenship is a way of saying I've enjoyed being a guest in your club, and I've decided to become a member.

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

Two passports gives you more options than one.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

I am no less Canadian than I was before I took the US oath. THere are considerations when let's say your US spouse dies (this was recently discussed (like yesterday in the Canadian forum), if the remaining spouse is a US citizen, the Estate tax is deferred until the death of the 2nd spouse but if you are still a PR the IRS requires the estate tax be paid immediately (vs deferred). Its something to consider, not the only reason but a darn good one.

I suspect that if I returned permanently to Canada - perhaps in retirement if my US husband wasn't alive, I might renounce my US citizenship at that time to avoid the tax issues.

I'll be darned if I pay US money every 10 years to maintain my GC instead of being a US citizen.

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

THere are considerations when let's say your US spouse dies (this was recently discussed (like yesterday in the Canadian forum), if the remaining spouse is a US citizen, the Estate tax is deferred until the death of the 2nd spouse but if you are still a PR the IRS requires the estate tax be paid immediately (vs deferred). Its something to consider, not the only reason but a darn good one.

I suspect that if I returned permanently to Canada - perhaps in retirement if my US husband wasn't alive, I might renounce my US citizenship at that time to avoid the tax issues.

Estate tax is only levied on amounts exceeding $5,340,000. The OP might not have that inconvenience of being a multi-millionaire..

And if you aren't living in the US and earning from a US employer, then you wouldn't have any income to be taxed. Your taxes would be paid to Canada, not both places on the same income.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Good to know - its a point brought up many times during 'Should I become a citizen' discussions.

Estate tax is only levied on amounts exceeding $5,340,000. The OP might not have that inconvenience of being a multi-millionaire..
And if you aren't living in the US and earning from a US employer, then you wouldn't have any income to be taxed. Your taxes would be paid to Canada, not both places on the same income.

[kzielu 1,147]

This might seem like a strange question to some and I'm not knocking your decision, but I have noticed that most people on VJ see gaining US citizenship as something of a certainty

My question is why?

I know as a citizen you can vote, but the system is broken so that doesn't really appeal to me

You can commit a felony without being deported, but again as I'm not a criminal that isn't important

So the only other benefit I can see is you remove the need to deal with the USCIS every ten years

I'm not American, I never will be and I am proud of where I come from

But why is it that most people seem to consider it as an inevitable part of the migration process

I think these are all good questions. I personally will do that to be able to get security clearance so I can apply for jobs within my company I am really interested in. But other than that - I am with you on "I'm not American and I never will be". After 30+ years living outside, I can't turn into American in 3 years, it will entirely artificial anyway. I will apply for citizenship and if I become a citizen, I will support this country but my polish curse (like I often mention it to my wife when she gets annoyed with things I do) will always be with me.

[aaron2020 11,651]

The only thing about US citizenship I detest is the never ending taxes a citizen has to pay till they die lol (even taxes on social security smh). Other countries compared to the US pay just about 20% of the taxes the US pay...but then, comparing it to the benefits to be derived from it, I believe it is all worth it too.

LPRs are subject to the same tax rules as US citizens.

[aaron2020 11,651]

I suspect that if I returned permanently to Canada - perhaps in retirement if my US husband wasn't alive, I might renounce my US citizenship at that time to avoid the tax issues.

The US has this covered.

There is an exit tax on your worldwide assets that needs to be addresses when you give up your US citizenship.

To be blunt - it would be a hugh loophole (and stupid tax policy) to let people enjoy the benefits of citizenship and then avoid the tax responsibilities by simply giving up citizenship. That's why there is an exit tax.

Edited February 11, 2014 by aaron2020