Called by ICE just after I filed my I130 and I485 forms.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Are you saying hereby that the United States of America is a tyranny ruled by despotic civil servants and overreaching Judicial System where gross abuse is a norm of the day?

Is that what you are saying?

I didn't say that.

Here's exactly what I said in an unmodified post above

It's nice that you have this ideology but unfortunately you're looking at what happens daily in the US via tainted glasses.

Gross abuse of power by civil servants as well as over reaching in judicial system happens every single day.

I'm not going to derail the OPs thread and future searches on this subject since we won't agree on this.

I'll leave the thread by congratulating the OP on his success.

[asdfg 18]

I didn't say that.

Here's exactly what I said in an unmodified post above:

It's nice that you have this ideology but unfortunately you're looking at what happens daily in the US via tainted glasses.

Gross abuse of power by civil servants as well as over reaching in judicial system happens every single day.

It's not "my ideology". what you refer to are Principles that Founding Fathers built United States of America upon and I hold those principle dear and am attached to them , just as I am attached to US Constitution.

What is it then, I ask you, that you are trying to imply by denying the validity of those principles ?

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I understand that some posters on public forums (I am not naming names or making a personal statement,this is not about anyone in particular, it's just a general note of impression left after reading some posts on public forums) , so I understand some posters come from despotic third world countries , where there is indeed "The Man" who can do as he pleases with little to no regard to existing laws, abuse and demean and humiliate the citizens for pleasure as infamous Emperor of Rome Caligula would do.

Thus, even after coming to USA, these individuals project their own tyrannical government system upon the US , hence they are trembling, with fear and apprehension that "The Man" can just do to them as he pleases.

These individuals would do favor to themselves, as well as to United States, by according to our system of government greater Honor and understanding that we have no Chavez, Assad or Ghaddafi style "The Man" ruled form of government here where anyone vested of public trust can do to us as he/she pleases. Instead, WE THE PEOPLE electorally decide WHO our man will be and we put men there (Be it in ICE, USCIS, or any other Government Agency) to be IN OUR SERVICE, NOT to fear and tremble that some dumbduck will arbitrarily and without any legitimate grounds abuse his powers and do us harm for no existing reason.

This is a s far as "The Man" part of the reply concerned.

As to my reply to the OP, notice that I have made no mention of need or absence of a need for the professional help, I didn't even delve into the OP other than questioning how could what OP describes really take place? I am still very skeptical of OP account , though I refrained from calling him a troll or deliberately making the story up.

I wish OP lots of luck and best of what life has in store for him.

To the rest: HONOR your newly adopted Country, The United States of America!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Stick around a few more years and get a dose of reality in the real world. The odd and unusual happens. Frequently.

People hired to do a job and failing or doing it not like we think they are "supposed to do it"....happens. CO's that bribe for sex and monetary gain happens. Biased denials happen. Reasons beyond your reasoning and comprehension exist.

"The man" put in service by us does "his own thing" at times believe it or not. Such is life and it has nothing to do with the constitution. No system is perfect when it is run by humans.

Things take place that USCIS, ICE, and CO's do that are unusual, odd, out of pattern, but they still happen.

Glad you got through it OP. They called you in and they had their reasons best known to themselves. It does not surprise me just because we have not seen it before. There is a first time for everything and to bring the constitution into this is quite a quantum leap.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

What is it then, I ask you, that you are trying to imply by denying the validity of those principles ?

I don't see where Gowon has denied any validity of any "principles". Principles, pursuit of ideologies or whatever you want to call it involving human beings will never be perfect. The odd and unusual is the reality.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The OP, no offense to him, was recently a illegal alien who had no rights to be in this country at all. Judicial process and all that did not apply, just deport. The OP now is in a period of authorized stay given to him by the government, but he has still not gotten permission to stay indefinitely. So the OP already disregarded the US's laws and violated them. The system in place is meant to get rid of people who violate our laws and protect our citizens.

So ICE, until very recently, could arrest him, detain him, and deport him.

Your speech is meaningless in this context.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thank you guys.

He only said it's for verification. He checked my I797C and marriage certificate, took photocopies, and told me I'm fine. I think I was on their list as an overstayed student. He had an open case and he put my documents to this folder to close it.

I think they started calling people for double check. From now on more people will be invited everyday I guess.

Most likely correct. ICE showed you as overstayed and then "OOPs! Big surprise, you have filed for AOS" They probably just needed to verify you were "out of their jurisdiction"

You belong to USCIS now...congratulations!

[little_dreamer 11]

I understand that some posters on public forums (I am not naming names or making a personal statement,this is not about anyone in particular, it's just a general note of impression left after reading some posts on public forums) , so I understand some posters come from despotic third world countries , where there is indeed "The Man" who can do as he pleases with little to no regard to existing laws, abuse and demean and humiliate the citizens for pleasure as infamous Emperor of Rome Caligula would do.

Thus, even after coming to USA, these individuals project their own tyrannical government system upon the US , hence they are trembling, with fear and apprehension that "The Man" can just do to them as he pleases.

These individuals would do favor to themselves, as well as to United States, by according to our system of government greater Honor and understanding that we have no Chavez, Assad or Ghaddafi style "The Man" ruled form of government here where anyone vested of public trust can do to us as he/she pleases. Instead, WE THE PEOPLE electorally decide WHO our man will be and we put men there (Be it in ICE, USCIS, or any other Government Agency) to be IN OUR SERVICE, NOT to fear and tremble that some dumbduck will arbitrarily and without any legitimate grounds abuse his powers and do us harm for no existing reason.

This is a s far as "The Man" part of the reply concerned.

As to my reply to the OP, notice that I have made no mention of need or absence of a need for the professional help, I didn't even delve into the OP other than questioning how could what OP describes really take place? I am still very skeptical of OP account , though I refrained from calling him a troll or deliberately making the story up.

I wish OP lots of luck and best of what life has in store for him.

To the rest: HONOR your newly adopted Country, The United States of America!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man." ~ Thomas Jefferson

You gotta let me know where u got ur high horse lmao

[asdfg 18]

Stick around a few more years and get a dose of reality in the real world. The odd and unusual happens. Frequently.

People hired to do a job and failing or doing it not like we think they are "supposed to do it"....happens. CO's that bribe for sex and monetary gain happens. Biased denials happen. Reasons beyond your reasoning and comprehension exist.

"The man" put in service by us does "his own thing" at times believe it or not. Such is life and it has nothing to do with the constitution. No system is perfect when it is run by humans.

Things take place that USCIS, ICE, and CO's do that are unusual, odd, out of pattern, but they still happen.

Glad you got through it OP. They called you in and they had their reasons best known to themselves. It does not surprise me just because we have not seen it before. There is a first time for everything and to bring the constitution into this is quite a quantum leap.

To be precise there are two distinctly different subjects:

#1 - Matter of jurisdiction and out of pattern, unheard of event (like one described by OP).

# 2- Matter of abuse of power.

I have not raised the latter because it was absent from OP and in any event irrelevant to inconsistency I was pointing out in OP.

It was you and some other posters who kept bringing this "abuse of power" subject. In response I replied with my opinion that this is The United States of America , we have supremacy of Law (Constitution being the Highest Law of the Land) here over arbitrary wishes of men and no man can overrule it.

And I stand by my opinion. I challenge anyone of you to prove me wrong, that US is a lawless land where anyone wearing a uniform or vested of public trust and office can act like Caligula with impunity.

But the question I raised all along was whether it was likely for ICE to act in such an out of pattern way (not abusive but just totally out of its' way) and do things outside of its' jurisdiction and , on top of it, on such an odd fashion and so unlike what it is always doing.

First there is an issue of Jurisdiction. ICE either has jurisdiction or it doesn't. If removal proceedings are initiated the case is no longer is with USCIS. All USCIS can do is advise client that he or she is outside of its' jurisdiction. USCIS may still assume the control over the case IF ICE terminates its' proceedings in court and returns the subject under USCIS. In any event two never have a jurisdiction over the same case simultaneously.

What OP describes makes it look as if ICE did the job of USCIS (it's the USCIS Immigration Officer's job to review files and documents, before , during and after interview, as long as the case is under its' jurisdiction). How could this be that ICE interfered in the middle of the process without assuming the jurisdiction?

Second, it is very unlike for ICE to call people and ask them to visit their office for a chat. If ICE really wants to get you it just locates the house where they know you live (or have last known you have lived) and just come and get you from there in handcuffs.

In some instances (if there is a conflict of jurisdiction and USCIS doesn't want to alert subject so that he or she wouldn't flee or abscond) , the ICE will quietly wait in the building where subject goes for AOS interview and either question or arrest and assume full custody of the subject right then and there.

In yet other cases (and this is how removal proceedings are initiated) the ICE will send a letter to the subject advising them that they have x number of days to leave US, list the sections of INA under which the alien is removable and challenge the alien to show before Judge why they should still be authorized to be present in US. Neither of those well known patterns involve ICE calling someone at home and asking to come and visit for a private talk or for review of documents.

Third, although something obscure not turning up in Google search isn't an indication of it not existing, yet , as far as immigration matters are concerned, the circumstances the OP describe are fairly common (how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people apply for AOS after expiration or non-immigrant status? Surely many do so adjusting from F-1!). With so many thousands of similar cases surely someone would have already posted about ICE calling them to show up for a chat, how come no thread turns up when you search for relevant keyword?

But I will leave that third concern aside (perhaps of those thousands who went through similar process none has posted anything searchable by Google) , it still doesn't eliminate the two above.

How does OP explain it? He doesn't, he simply says this is what it is and ICE is a mystery that can do whatever.

None of which by the way holds the water.

In my turn, I have refrained from accusing the OP of being a troll. We still don't know whether what he says is an accurate description of events or not. All I said was that in light of the questions raised above, am remaining skeptical about the whole story and find it very odd that what OP described could indeed take place in a real life.

And I wished OP plenty of good luck.

I wish you the same.

`

Edited January 27, 2013 by asdfg

[Moomin 292]

To be precise there are two distinctly different subjects:

1. Matter of jurisdiction and out of pattern, unheard of event (like one described by OP).

2. Matter of abuse of power.

[...blablabla...]

Second, it is very unlike for ICE to call people and ask them to visit their office for a chat.

[blabla]

How does OP explain it? He doesn't, he simply says this is what it is and ICE is a mystery that can do whatever.

None of which by the way holds the water.

[blabla]

OP doesn't have to explain it. OP lawyered up and presented his evidence. If anything, he came prepared. Had he shown up with fear partially because of someone trying to freak him out, then it's possible the outcome of that talk would've been different. Fear won't get you far - facts will.

While it is not common to get a call from niether USCIS or ICE, it is still possible. Not every person has access to the internet and not everybody posts questions. VJ wasn't first with the news of Italy suddenly being hard on co-sponsors either. Internal procedures usually stay that way for the purpose of catching someone offguard.

`

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

To be precise there are two distinctly different subjects:

#1 - Matter of jurisdiction and out of pattern, unheard of event (like one described by OP).

# 2- Matter of abuse of power.

I have not raised the latter because it was absent from OP and in any event irrelevant to inconsistency I was pointing out in OP.

It was you and some other posters who kept bringing this "abuse of power" subject. In response I replied with my opinion that this is The United States of America , we have supremacy of Law (Constitution being the Highest Law of the Land) here over arbitrary wishes of men and no man can overrule it.

And I stand by my opinion. I challenge anyone of you to prove me wrong, that US is a lawless land where anyone wearing a uniform or vested of public trust and office can act like Caligula with impunity.

But the question I raised all along was whether it was likely for ICE to act in such an out of pattern way (not abusive but just totally out of its' way) and do things outside of its' jurisdiction and , on top of it, on such an odd fashion and so unlike what it is always doing.

First there is an issue of Jurisdiction. ICE either has jurisdiction or it doesn't. If removal proceedings are initiated the case is no longer is with USCIS. All USCIS can do is advise client that he or she is outside of its' jurisdiction. USCIS may still assume the control over the case IF ICE terminates its' proceedings in court and returns the subject under USCIS. In any event two never have a jurisdiction over the same case simultaneously.

What OP describes makes it look as if ICE did the job of USCIS (it's the USCIS Immigration Officer's job to review files and documents, before , during and after interview, as long as the case is under its' jurisdiction). How could this be that ICE interfered in the middle of the process without assuming the jurisdiction?

Second, it is very unlike for ICE to call people and ask them to visit their office for a chat. If ICE really wants to get you it just locates the house where they know you live (or have last known you have lived) and just come and get you from there in handcuffs.

In some instances (if there is a conflict of jurisdiction and USCIS doesn't want to alert subject so that he or she wouldn't flee or abscond) , the ICE will quietly wait in the building where subject goes for AOS interview and either question or arrest and assume full custody of the subject right then and there.

In yet other cases (and this is how removal proceedings are initiated) the ICE will send a letter to the subject advising them that they have x number of days to leave US, list the sections of INA under which the alien is removable and challenge the alien to show before Judge why they should still be authorized to be present in US. Neither of those well known patterns involve ICE calling someone at home and asking to come and visit for a private talk or for review of documents.

Third, although something obscure not turning up in Google search isn't an indication of it not existing, yet , as far as immigration matters are concerned, the circumstances the OP describe are fairly common (how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people apply for AOS after expiration or non-immigrant status? Surely many do so adjusting from F-1!). With so many thousands of similar cases surely someone would have already posted about ICE calling them to show up for a chat, how come no thread turns up when you search for relevant keyword?

But I will leave that third concern aside (perhaps of those thousands who went through similar process none has posted anything searchable by Google) , it still doesn't eliminate the two above.

How does OP explain it? He doesn't, he simply says this is what it is and ICE is a mystery that can do whatever.

None of which by the way holds the water.

In my turn, I have refrained from accusing the OP of being a troll. We still don't know whether what he says is an accurate description of events or not. All I said was that in light of the questions raised above, am remaining skeptical about the whole story and find it very odd that what OP described could indeed take place in a real life.

And I wished OP plenty of good luck.

I wish you the same.

`

No, it was not me who kept bringing anything. The post you quoted of me was my first in this thread.

As to the rest of your comment, I understand how ICE and USCIS are "supposed to" and "usually" work.

I have been around the board and fully understand the difference.

You are entitled to your suspicion and I am entitled to see no big deal with an "out of ordinary" procedure.

I merely implied that the human machine is prone to variables and not functioning according to what it is "supposed to do"

and therefore no one needs to read more into it when the OP says he can not explain it either.

Your utopia government machine does not exist in my humble opinion and experience. The wheels are not oiled as well as they could be.

But, yes, it is a great country in which we are allowed to have a difference of opinion.

Have a good day ~

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It's not "my ideology". what you refer to are Principles that Founding Fathers built United States of America upon and I hold those principle dear and am attached to them , just as I am attached to US Constitution.

What is it then, I ask you, that you are trying to imply by denying the validity of those principles ?

One of those...

[Xanax 349]

This thread has gotten way off topic and I don't think OP will be back as his question has been answered. Maybe we could let this die?

[asdfg 18]

With all due respect, both of you ,Ebunoluwa and moomin, are incorrect.

You are confused about range of variables within however wide circle vs out of range.

What I noted in OP was something just out of range and inconsistent with what is known to be as variables.

For example: Police, in the course of investigation, may come up with any new tactics and strategy or employ some yet unknown tools to more efficiently prosecute a crime.

But it is highly unlikely for a Police to do something outside of its' range.

For example, it's unlikely for a State Trooper or Local Police Officer to pilot an F-15 to chase a suspect. It just doesn't happen, no matter how unorthodox method of pursuit any Police department out there would possibly choose.

Also , we all at some point heard or saw on TV-news channels one or another report of the excessive use of force by Police but none ever involved Police randomly kicking 90 years old retiree in the butt , whose sole offence was merely strolling the public sidewalk during the normal business hours.

Not to compare the OP story to these examples , but the point is that some things are just out of the range of possible and far outside of any imaginable variables.

I am not saying what OP wrote is just as impossible, but at least very odd, highly unlikely and unusual enough to keep me skeptical.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

With all due respect, both of you ,Ebunoluwa and moomin, are incorrect.

You are confused about range of variables within however wide circle vs out of range.

What I noted in OP was something just out of range and inconsistent with what is known to be as variables.

For example: Police, in the course of investigation, may come up with any new tactics and strategy or employ some yet unknown tools to more efficiently prosecute a crime.

But it is highly unlikely for a Police to do something outside of its' range.

For example, it's unlikely for a State Trooper or Local Police Officer to pilot an F-15 to chase a suspect. It just doesn't happen, no matter how unorthodox method of pursuit any Police department out there would possibly choose.

Also , we all at some point heard or saw on TV-news channels one or another report of the excessive use of force by Police but none ever involved Police randomly kicking 90 years old retiree in the butt , whose sole offence was merely strolling the public sidewalk during the normal business hours.

Not to compare the OP story to these examples , but the point is that some things are just out of the range of possible and far outside of any imaginable variables.

I am not saying what OP wrote is just as impossible, but at least very odd, highly unlikely and unusual enough to keep me skeptical.

What in the world are you on about?

Look - the OP found himself in an unusual immigration situation. He did what anybody with half a brain in his situation would do. He sought legal counsel.

Surely you can Google how helpful it is for an alien to show up in any Homeland Security office with his lawyer at his side.

[blankmedia 41]

This is almost as bad as reading youtube comments, but I can't seem to stop.