Honeymoon abroad after F1 marriage

[VanessaTony 3,567]

If she's in status for 3 more years under the F-1, why not get married and honeymoon, and do not make up your mind about adjusting at this time? You can reassess later on, so you can't be accused of visa fraud by anyone on this board or USCIS.

I don't think she's likely to be denied entry just based on the marriage, and if CBP asks you about whether she's going to stay or adjust status you can say at this point she's planning to be in the US for school but she hasn't made up her mind about anything else.

As the OP has already stated that she wants to AOS that she wants to remain in the US, saying "not sure yet" is a lie. They know they want to stay together in the US, at least at this time.

"Do not make up your mind" is telling them what they need to do or say to get over the line, that it's not fraud if they tell themselves this. That's not true. You're just trying to tell them how to get around the law. The intent is there. Please stop suggesting immigration fraud.

[Little_My 463]

For 2, immigrant intent is rarely raised at AOS interviews, even for people who entered under a tourist visa or VWP. It did happen to someone on this forum awhile back who entered under VWP and adjusted status after several months, but even though the interviewer questioned intent, AOS was still granted. Presumably the adjuster was able to explain how they lacked the intent to adjust when they entered but then changed their mind.

If she's in status for 3 more years under the F-1, why not get married and honeymoon, and do not make up your mind about adjusting at this time? You can reassess later on, so you can't be accused of visa fraud by anyone on this board or USCIS.

I don't think she's likely to be denied entry just based on the marriage, and if CBP asks you about whether she's going to stay or adjust status you can say at this point she's planning to be in the US for school but she hasn't made up her mind about anything else.

You are missing the point here. The issue isn't whether or not intent would be raised in the AOS interview - the issue is that if she leaves with the F1 visa, and then tries to re-enter with the F1 visa when she is obviously planning to adjust status and immigrate to the US, she is committing visa fraud. Again, a crime is a crime even if the person committing it is not caught. If she were to do this, and get back to the US, then yes - chances are she would AOS without any trouble. The risk is at the time of entry. What if she is asked about her marriage? What if she is asked if she is planning to permanently immigrate to the US? There is absolutely no way she could now answer that honestly and be let back in. She would either have to lie and say "no, we are not planning to file for a greencard for me", which would be lying - or, she would say "yes, we do plan to get me a greencard", at which point she would be denied entry with 99% certainty.

Intent is a funny thing. Once you have it, you can't really undo it or take it back. And yes, many people do exactly what you are suggesting and get away with it. It still doesn't make it right - and, I reiterate what I have said before - being denied entry and possibly, in a worst case scenario, being slapped with a ban, would not be a risk I was personally willing to take, when what's at stake is future with my spouse.

[grrrrreat 109]

As the OP has already stated that she wants to AOS that she wants to remain in the US, saying "not sure yet" is a lie. They know they want to stay together in the US, at least at this time.

"Do not make up your mind" is telling them what they need to do or say to get over the line, that it's not fraud if they tell themselves this. That's not true. You're just trying to tell them how to get around the law. The intent is there. Please stop suggesting immigration fraud.

I am not at all suggesting immigration fraud. Please stop accusing me of it because I am offering a different perspective than you. There's nothing illegal about getting married, coming back to the U.S. on a F-1 visa to finish school, and deciding what to do and where to live once the F-1 is closer to expiring. Postponing the decision about staying in the U.S. is not the same as having an intent to immigrate.

Everyone commenting should remember that this person is on a pre-existing F-1 visa with three years of validity, not VWP or B-2 entering for the first time with mere weeks or months left on their stay. This is not fraud and I am not advocating fraud.

Edited April 23, 2012 by grrrrreat

[grrrrreat 109]

You are missing the point here. The issue isn't whether or not intent would be raised in the AOS interview - the issue is that if she leaves with the F1 visa, and then tries to re-enter with the F1 visa when she is obviously planning to adjust status and immigrate to the US, she is committing visa fraud. Again, a crime is a crime even if the person committing it is not caught. If she were to do this, and get back to the US, then yes - chances are she would AOS without any trouble. The risk is at the time of entry. What if she is asked about her marriage? What if she is asked if she is planning to permanently immigrate to the US? There is absolutely no way she could now answer that honestly and be let back in. She would either have to lie and say "no, we are not planning to file for a greencard for me", which would be lying - or, she would say "yes, we do plan to get me a greencard", at which point she would be denied entry with 99% certainty.

Intent is a funny thing. Once you have it, you can't really undo it or take it back. And yes, many people do exactly what you are suggesting and get away with it. It still doesn't make it right - and, I reiterate what I have said before - being denied entry and possibly, in a worst case scenario, being slapped with a ban, would not be a risk I was personally willing to take, when what's at stake is future with my spouse.

I specifically said she couldn't enter with the intent to immigrate. I suggested waiting to decide about whether to immigrate until later, well after the port of entry.

"Intent is a funny thing. Once you have it, you can't really undo it or take it back." This is not a rule and is not legal reasoning.

[Little_My 463]

I am not at all suggesting immigration fraud. There's nothing compatible with getting married, coming back to the U.S. on a F-1 visa to finish school, and deciding what to do and where to live once the F-1 is closer to expiring. Postponing the decision is not the same as lying about it.

Everyone commenting should remember that this person is on a pre-existing F-1 visa with three years of validity, not VWP or B-2 entering for the first time with mere weeks or months. There's nothing wrong with postponing the decision about whether to stay in the U.S. until later. It is not the same as entering the U.S. with intent to immigrate.

I got my F1 in 2009. I got married to my husband in February 2011. I knew right then, and before the wedding, that we were going to file for AOS and get me a greencard. Whether or not I had done that immediately after our wedding - which we did - or postponed filing for AOS for months, would have made no difference in terms of my intent. The intent was there. And the intent is there for the OP. There is no such thing as "postponing intent", which is what they would be doing - not postponing the decision itself, because the decision has been made already. It does not matter whether it is F1, VWP or B2 - they are all non-immigrant visas that come with the same restrictions, one of them being not using them to come to the US with intent to immigrate. The OP's wife has intent to immigrate, and that's what it all boils down to.

[grrrrreat 109]

I got my F1 in 2009. I got married to my husband in February 2011. I knew right then, and before the wedding, that we were going to file for AOS and get me a greencard. Whether or not I had done that immediately after our wedding - which we did - or postponed filing for AOS for months, would have made no difference in terms of my intent. The intent was there. And the intent is there for the OP. There is no such thing as "postponing intent", which is what they would be doing - not postponing the decision itself, because the decision has been made already. It does not matter whether it is F1, VWP or B2 - they are all non-immigrant visas that come with the same restrictions, one of them being not using them to come to the US with intent to immigrate. The OP's wife has intent to immigrate, and that's what it all boils down to.

It's cool, we disagree about whether an F-1 can decide later whether to immigrate or not. It's fair. But do not accuse me of fraud. I take it very seriously.

[jkb11 26]

How about:

1. Get married

2. Go on honeymoon

3. Re-enter on F1

4. File for CR-1

5. Go to home country just for the interview

6. Return to the U.S. as LPR

That is the version you and your fiancee agree upon. Your fiancee will then have no intent of adjusting her status after arrival on F1, thus not breaking any laws or committing fraud. Of course, if you surprise her at the day of filing and slip her an additional I-485 form to fill out, well, her intent remained clear at the time of entry. Your intent has nothing to do with it. Oh, what a lovely surprise would that be. Wink, wink.

Cheers!

Edited April 23, 2012 by jkb11

[aayitrun 66]

How about:

1. Get married

2. Go on honeymoon

3. Re-enter on F1

4. File for CR-1

5. Go to home country just for the interview

6. Return to the U.S. as LPR

that is wrong. if u re-enter on f1 with the intent to immigrate (which it clearly seems you do) then that is fraud straight up whether or not they catch u this time it will make things difficult in the long run. not to mention its highly likely that the f1 entry will be denied and u dont want to send ur newlywed bride home.

imho, dont mess with this.

entering on f1 is going to be fraud anyway u do it and it will make life hell later during gc / citizenship process. just refund it and go to hawaii. i went to hawaii, it was awesome and all u need is a DL to get there and back.

Edited April 23, 2012 by aayitrun

[L+T 71]

Thanks for the speedy advice (to you and all others as well). A few extra tidbits in response to this:

1. She is in-status on her F1 for three more years.

2. If we do go with A, how much risk is there down the road at her AOS interview? If we delay the certificate until some number of days after the honeymoon, would it still be a problem that we met, got engaged and conducted a ceremony prior to her re-entry? It would be great if someone could give me a sense of how much risk we would be introducing into her life by trying A.

3. Several people asked what I was thinking about expedition. What I had in mind was something like passport expedition services -- I know there are several companies out there offering high-speed passport processing for a price. But from what everyone is saying, it sounds like there is no such option here, regardless of which immigration paperwork is necessary.

4. It is sounding like the only real option is to postpone the honeymoon and take the financial hit. Do others agree with this?

EDIT: I see that while I wrote this, several people have advised against option A. I do not mean to violate TOS by pushing on option A above, so please consider my request null and void in that case.

Option 4: Take a vacation while still single. She is student with 3 years left, what is the hurry?

[Krikit 1,163]

Please see what you can do about rescheduling your honeymoon plans. Most places will only charge an administrative fee and hold the remainder if you give them a call and talk to them. Here are a couple of posts from a former CBP Officer which you may want to take heed of. The CBP has the final call on who gets to enter the US and I have seen them in action. It is not something I would ever want to roll the dice on.

You could use the Canadian marriage license to file, but it is FAR more risky as the bar of evidence to prove non-immigrant intent at entry would be more difficult to gather. The conventional wisdom is that those who are married to USC's have immigrant intent, i.e they will eventually wish to be together at some point in time. The challenge is to show that the intent did not exist at that entry.

How would the OP handle questioning from a AO along the lines of what was said at the border during the AOS interview. Did the OP exclude any pertinent information that would change a CBP officer's determination of the eligibility for entry. Did the OP commit a material misrepresentation by either deliberately giving misleading information or by wilfully concealing information. It's a high stakes situation with a very bad result if you happen to roll snake eyes by getting the AO that wants to probe into the legality of the entry. Losing that game results in immediate removal with a permanent ban on entering the US with no option for a waiver.

I know that is a situation I wouldn't want to put myself in if I could help it. But I'm not the OP.

As a former POE officer, I can tell you with certainty that no one (not the consulate, not the person that you may call at the POE, etc.) can tell you with certainty what will happen at the POE because there are too many factors involved... There are thousands of POE officers and each of them may have completely different reactions and ideas about how to handle your situation.

But the facts are these...

1) One can only be admissible to the US under a tourist status if they are indeed intending to enter the US under the terms of the status. That is stay in the US for no more than 6 months and return home.

2) One is not admissible to the US if they have the intent on immigrating to the US and staying unless that have a visa that provides for that (K-1, K-2, CR-1). Actually the presumption in law that that every alien has the intention to stay and it is the responsibility of the alien to prove to the satisfaction of the CBP officer that this is not the case. This is known as the INA 214B provision.

3) Once a I-129F is filed, you have put the USCIS and therefore CBP on notice that you have a significant tie to the US that would give you reason to stay past the terms of your visitor status...

So when you go to the POE, you have the higher bar of proving to the CBP Officer that you have no intention of immigrating to the US during that entry. Bring proof of your ties to Canada that would require you return home is a good thing to bring. But ultimately the best proof you have is yourself and how you react to and your answers to the questions that the CBP Officer asks of you.

So all in all, yes, there is a greater risk to yourself that you will be denied at the POE.. but you can't win if you don't play... I wouldn't cancel my travel plans on what could happen.. just be prepared and answer the questions truthfully. If they deny you, they deny you.. but let the CBP make the decision, not you by changing your travel plans...

[jaycali 415]

For 2, immigrant intent is rarely raised at AOS interviews, even for people who entered under a tourist visa or VWP.

It actually depends on the local office. Doubt it's an issue normally for F-1, but certain local offices are notorious for placing hopeful tourist newlyweds in removal proceedings.

It's very rare that in-status F-1 students are refused entry or even asked very many questions at POE, but entering with the intent to AOS down the line is still immigration fraud and could result in severe circumstances later down the line. The rammifications of this are massive and not worth the risk for $4,000.

that is wrong. if u re-enter on f1 with the intent to immigrate (which it clearly seems you do) then that is fraud straight up whether or not they catch u this time it will make things difficult in the long run.

I disagree. It's not fraud to enter on F-1 if you plan to file an I-130 for a CR-1/IR-1 down the line. Remember, CR-1/IR-1 involves an interview in the beneficiary's home country, and thus having the beneficiary eventually leave. What's illegal is entering on F-1 with intent to AOS. It's a bit like entering the US on the VWP or B-2 to visit your spouse while having an I-130 pending. There's obviously immigrant intent down the line, but the intent is not there on the given visa.

Edited April 23, 2012 by jaejayC

[Peter_Pan 661]

How about going to the honeymoon, then getting married?

[Gosia & Tito 199]

A couple of small quibbles with your advice, although I don't think we disagree on the big ideas.

A. 30-60-90 rule does exist, although it's not a technical rule. It is a general guideline many attorneys use to guide clients regarding when to adjust status. It is based on a now-outdated court case. You're right that it is not legal to represent that you do not have an intent to immigrate if you actually do, and we also agree that it is hard to see how it would come up at the border in this context.

B. AP can be expedited. It doesn't have to be an absolute emergency, it can simply be urgent. I am not aware of a rule that says you can't get expedited AP for vacation or honeymoon plans, and others have been able to AP relatively quickly. Here are USCIS's guidelines regarding expedited AP, although I believe in practice they operate a little more flexibly than they specify. Perhaps you would qualify under the loss to individual part: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=5436f0cb861c5210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=4c790a5659083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

C. K-3s still exist, but they are generally considered obsolete because they take the same time as the CR-1s. Consulates are still able grant K-3s, but typically a CR-1 is ready before or around the same time as the K-3 is and they will cancel the application for K-3 as soon as the CR-1 becomes available.

What?

Sorry but this (A, B) is incorrect and lot of wishful thinking. That 30-60-90 rule is just hogwash. Anyone can request expediting AP but form there to actually happening is a big distance, and a deposit on a wedding is jut not going to cut it.

However, if OP files AOS now (as in this week), has a chance to have AP by mid July (AP takes in average 90 days, sometimes a few days short) and that is assuming it is approved. APs petitions not getting approved are rare but do happen.

[Marlon&Fallon 13]

Perhaps your best option is to have them reschedule your reservation for a later date, like December or there about, since you said it's none refundable? That might be enough time for things to get sorted out and make travel possible without any trouble.

[aayitrun 66]

I disagree. It's not fraud to enter on F-1 if you plan to file an I-130 for a CR-1/IR-1 down the line. Remember, CR-1/IR-1 involves an interview in the beneficiary's home country, and thus having the beneficiary eventually leave. What's illegal is entering on F-1 with intent to AOS. It's a bit like entering the US on the VWP or B-2 to visit your spouse while having an I-130 pending. There's obviously immigrant intent down the line, but the intent is not there on the given visa.

ur absolutely right. what i meant was intent to AOS. naturally there is a chance that it could all go well. but, during aos if it accidentally slips out it could be a problem. go with the sure thing, dont hinge your future on 4000$.