Deportation?

[MarocAEHabiby 2]

FIVE arrests and still confused??????????? :help:

As I said, he was younger-we aren't talking about a 25+ year old getting into trouble. We met when we were 16 and 17 respectively and got married young. He hung out with the wrong crowd and got arrested for stupidity (such as shouting at a guy who insulted how he spoke-disorderly conduct) when he was under 21. I'm not making excuses for him, but I know it must have been tough coming here with no family and the many opportunities to fall into the wrong crowd. He's since changed, and according to immigration law he is eligible for AOS based on his marriage to me, although I guess the discretion of the IJ can deny any petition for AOS. That said, I don't mean to be snarky but how is your reply/comment constructive?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

As I said, he was younger-we aren't talking about a 25+ year old getting into trouble. We met when we were 16 and 17 respectively and got married young. He hung out with the wrong crowd and got arrested for stupidity (such as shouting at a guy who insulted how he spoke-disorderly conduct) when he was under 21. I'm not making excuses for him, but I know it must have been tough coming here with no family and the many opportunities to fall into the wrong crowd. He's since changed, and according to immigration law he is eligible for AOS based on his marriage to me, although I guess the discretion of the IJ can deny any petition for AOS. That said, I don't mean to be snarky but how is your reply/comment constructive?

I don't know if the persons comment was really constructive except to point out that with 5 arrests, why are you confused about why he was denied.

There are a few rules here and there like don't claim to be a USC (this is a biggie), don't use someone else's SSN, and there's also another about moral turpitude. A few others here and there of course but these are some biggies.

The US starts holding stuff against people when they hit 18. If you're brought over as a child then the overstay doesn't start until you're 18. If you claim to be a USC, same thing being under 18 can change things. The fact that he was under 21 is completely irrelevant because he was still of legal age. He's shown a complete disdain for the laws (once I could probably understand, twice even but FIVE?) and it's still TECHNICALLY recently. It's not like it was 20+ years ago that he committed these crimes. You're asking USCIS to believe that he's a changed man now and it just so happens that he's changed now that he wants to claim immigration benefits.

You said he fell into the wrong crowd and I understand that... but I suppose an argument is there are plenty of other people who came over in his same situation and didn't commit crimes... didn't get arrested let alone five times. People with a strong moral compass wouldn't commit crimes no matter the crowd. They'd pick their friends better if they wanted to succeed and be good rather than just do whatever they want.

My little sister is a fruit loop. While I know that school and the people at school didn't help, she was brought up with the same parents, at the same school and we too didn't have the easiest time of it at school but you don't see the rest of us breaking the law. It's totally a personal strength/personality thing and the US has decided he's not worth the risk. I hope for your families sake you figure something out but you said you're willing to go to his country so maybe you should start looking into that...

Edited May 9, 2011 by Vanessa&Tony

[VanessaTony 3,567]

My husband was ordered deported back in 2008 and didn't leave.

Also just a note here. He committed five criminal acts which he was arrested for (no convictions you said) and just three years ago decided that being ordered deported didn't work for him and broke THAT law too. Certainly hasn't helped his "I'm a law abiding person" argument...

[MarocAEHabiby 2]

Also just a note here. He committed five criminal acts which he was arrested for (no convictions you said) and just three years ago decided that being ordered deported didn't work for him and broke THAT law too. Certainly hasn't helped his "I'm a law abiding person" argument...

I agree completely with you on all your points and I am not making any excuses for him. He hasn't been in trouble with the law since late 2004 and although he was ordered deported it really put me in a rock and hard place because I don't speak Arabic or French and was unable to find a job in Morocco. He would have been completely unable to work to support us back home so we worked it out so he could stay home with our daughter while I worked to support us. Morocco wouldn't have afforded us the same luxury (minimum wage per hour is roughly $2). We also remained here based on the advice of another attorney who stated some relief would be available after 10 years of continuous residency. Anyways, I wanted to find out if anyone here has experience with a joint motion to reopen and if so what was that experience? I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I agree completely with you on all your points and I am not making any excuses for him. He hasn't been in trouble with the law since late 2004 and although he was ordered deported it really put me in a rock and hard place because I don't speak Arabic or French and was unable to find a job in Morocco. He would have been completely unable to work to support us back home so we worked it out so he could stay home with our daughter while I worked to support us. Morocco wouldn't have afforded us the same luxury (minimum wage per hour is roughly $2). We also remained here based on the advice of another attorney who stated some relief would be available after 10 years of continuous residency. Anyways, I wanted to find out if anyone here has experience with a joint motion to reopen and if so what was that experience? I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys

You still haven't told us specifically why the judge used his discretion to deny. Vanessa pointed out some specific things that would result in a denial, but those are mostly INA 212 inadmissibilities. Judges don't use their discretion when there's a clear inadmissibility. They simply deny based on the inadmissibility. I'd like to know the specific reason the judge used his discretion to deny. It takes a pretty serious negative factor (or factors) to overcome being an immediate relative of a US citizen.

I don't have any experience with joint motions. I don't know anyone who has any specific experience. However, I do know how to use Google, and apparently these motions are rarely granted. You actually need to convince the Service counsel for the Department of Homeland Security to side with YOU and join your motion to reopen. This is comparable to getting an opposing attorney to side with you against a judge.

Your husband was ordered deported, but he's still in the US. Was he given voluntary departure, and then just failed to depart? If so then the Service counsel will be statutorily barred from joining your motion to reopen. The Service counsel would likewise be statutorily barred from joining your motion if any other legal impediment prevents your husband from adjusting status, like the INA 212 inadmissibilities mentioned above.

Seriously, consult with a few other immigration lawyers. There appears to be a good chance your joint motion will not be approved, and you need to decide what your next course of action will be. Once you get past the BIA then the legal process begins to get very expensive.

[nurse1967 287]

Arrested 5 times is ridiculous. I don't care what the reasons are. Evidently our government thinks he needs to go back to Morocco. Once again he has broken the law by staying. You made the decision to have 2 kids with someone like him. Can't really blame anyone but him and yourself. Probably not going to find much sympathy around here from MENA folks. Most of our significant others didn't have the best language skills either but they didn't go getting themselves arrested 5 times.

[belinda63 2,990]

Arrested does not mean guilty. I made a local cop angry and he arrested me four separate times for a total of 18 charges ALL of which were dismissed.

[Otto 83]

** Please be mindful of your posts - including judgmental remarks; or refrain from posting. We're here to help/support each other if and when we can.

Terms of Service (TOS)

[MarocAEHabiby 2]

Arrested 5 times is ridiculous. I don't care what the reasons are. Evidently our government thinks he needs to go back to Morocco. Once again he has broken the law by staying. You made the decision to have 2 kids with someone like him. Can't really blame anyone but him and yourself. Probably not going to find much sympathy around here from MENA folks. Most of our significant others didn't have the best language skills either but they didn't go getting themselves arrested 5 times.

As I've asked ever so politely to other posters-if you have nothing constructive and/or pertinent to what I am asking refrain from responding. I don't wish or care to hear about your opinions or negativity.

[MarocAEHabiby 2]

Arrested does not mean guilty. I made a local cop angry and he arrested me four separate times for a total of 18 charges ALL of which were dismissed.

Thanks Belinda, I appreciate your wisdom. For some of the arrests (three) he actually was with his loser friends and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I love how people presume guilty before proven. If he was such a terrible guy he obviously wouldn't have had the charges dismissed.

[MarocAEHabiby 2]

This is an excerpt from the BIA denial after our appeal:

"We address the respondent's arguments that the Immigration Judge failed to properly weigh the evidence in denying adjustment of status as a matter of discretion. The Board reviews matters of discretion de novo. We disagree with the respondent that the Immigration Judge failed to give sufficient weight to the respondent's family ties in the United States, specifically his United States citizens wife and child. We also disagree that the Immigration Judge placed too much emphasis on the respondent's multiple arrests for criminal behavior, given that the respondent has never been convicted of a crime. See Matter of Thomas 21 I&N Dec. 20 (BIA 1995) (holding that an arrest can be considered as a negative discretionary factor)." and "While the respondent was never convicted of a criminal offense, the evidence of his argumentative and confrontational behavior were properly considered by the Immigration Judge. We agree with the Immigration Judge that the negative factors outweigh the equities. See Matter of Arai, 13 I&N Dec.494 (BIA 1970)."

Now here is the conclusion from Matter of Thomas:

We have taken into account the respondent’s favorable equities in this

country including his length of residence, family ties (lawful permanent resident wife, their 4-year-old United States citizen child, lawful permanent resident mother and half-brother), and employment history. We find, however,

that these factors do not outweigh the adverse factors presented by the record, including the respondent’s immigration history, probable guilt for murder in the second degree, attempted murder in the second degree, assault in the second degree, criminal possession of a weapon in the second, third, and fourth degrees, and admitted use of drugs in prison, for which he was disciplined. Accordingly, we find that the respondent has failed to satisfy his burden of

establishing that he merits voluntary departure as a matter of discretion. Therefore, his request for voluntary departure is denied in the exercise of discretion. For these reasons, the respondent’s appeal is dismissed.

And the summary of the conclusion from Matter of Arai (I cannot copy and paste, as it is old scanned document):

A favorable exercise of administrative discretion is warranted where positive factors, such as family ties, length of residency, and hardship, outweigh adverse considerations.

So the first thing that I do not understand is why they chose to reference either of these matters, as my husband was never accused of drug dealing, killing someone, drug use, possession of a weapon (Thomas) or anything even in the same ball park. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, basically being a idiot and raising his voice arguing with stupid people. The second matter seems to be decision which should have helped us, as he had family ties (myself and child), 7 years in the US, and I was unemployed at the time and unable to support myself on my own.

That said, I really want to focus on my question which is whether or not anyone has had any experience with the joint motion to reopen, and if so what was the outcome-negative or positive. Thanks again all and please if you want to discuss anything other that my question feel free to PM me or not bother posting at all...thanks!

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Are you still only a permanent resident , that changes things alot. Being the spouse of a USC is one thing and gets a lot of forgiveness points but if you are an LPR a couple of things change. The number of forgiveness points being amrried to you is worth and the fact there is no immedate visa number available and there is no forgiveness of an overstay. If so the decision make a lot more sense and there is a lot less availble to you at this time.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

This is an excerpt from the BIA denial after our appeal:

(snip...)

So the first thing that I do not understand is why they chose to reference either of these matters, as my husband was never accused of drug dealing, killing someone, drug use, possession of a weapon (Thomas) or anything even in the same ball park. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, basically being a idiot and raising his voice arguing with stupid people. The second matter seems to be decision which should have helped us, as he had family ties (myself and child), 7 years in the US, and I was unemployed at the time and unable to support myself on my own.

They quoted both the Thomas and Arai cases to reinforce that the judge has discretion in weighing the positive and negative factors. They weren't trying to make a direct comparison between those negative factors. Thomas obviously had overwhelming negative factors. The judge apparently determined that the negative factors in your husband's case were enough to outweigh the positive factors, and the BIA apparently agreed with him.

That said, I really want to focus on my question which is whether or not anyone has had any experience with the joint motion to reopen, and if so what was the outcome-negative or positive. Thanks again all and please if you want to discuss anything other that my question feel free to PM me or not bother posting at all...thanks!

I haven't seen any posts on VJ from anyone else who had submitted a joint motion to reopen. Even if you find someone, their case would have to be nearly identical to yours in order to be able to infer anything from their experience. For example, you couldn't make a direct comparison to someone whose AOS had been denied because they had a single conviction for shoplifting a pack of gum and then managed to successfully get the Service counsel to join their motion to reopen. Is a single conviction for shoplifting a pack of gum a less severe negative factor than five arrests? Is it more? Who knows?

I'm going to prognosticate, and predict that your motion will be denied. Do you have a plan for what you will do next? Have you discussed this possibility with your attorney? Will you file an appeal in a district court? How long are you willing to leave your husband in detention while you try to fight this? How much money are you willing to spend on legal fees?

Are you still only a permanent resident , that changes things alot. Being the spouse of a USC is one thing and gets a lot of forgiveness points but if you are an LPR a couple of things change. The number of forgiveness points being amrried to you is worth and the fact there is no immedate visa number available and there is no forgiveness of an overstay. If so the decision make a lot more sense and there is a lot less availble to you at this time.

Where did you get the impression that she's an LPR? If that were the case then there would be no judge's discretion involved. He wouldn't be eligible to adjust status because of the overstay - case closed. In the BIA denial she quoted it said "his United States citizens wife and child". I think she's clearly a USC.

[Krikit 1,163]

Moving from Family-Based AOS Process to Effects of Major Changes.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Krikit

[katiemanny 64]

Her husband was ordered to self deport and been arrested 5 times, judge denied AOS, doesn't that seal the deal, I think its time to lawyer up, PERIOD. there's nothing VJ members can do here. This will be like a WWII battle against the Nazis.