K1 AOS Gender examination????

[BlueBonnet 84]

This is my opinion only.

I have viewed the entire process from a "new" persons point of view.

When you are born in your country, on your birth cert. it gives some family history, it says you name, DOB, gender, a parent signs it ... ect. Then you go to school and have a student ID maybe, then you get a drivers licence, maybe some college. You file taxes and tell the government where you live/work/study.

The point is, at any time your government can access your entire life through the paperwork.

Now you want to come to a new country ... well .. they know nothing about you ... so you have to tell them.

Your country knows your gender .. they checked you at birth. But this country that you want to go to ... they dont.

Dont look at it as a personal affront. Try to respect the process. Anyone can look at me, and say .. shes is female .. but that isnt a physical exam .. so I have to do one .. and if they check to verify me as a female .. so be it. It is one law for everyone straight across the board, no one is exempt. It isnt a personal attack on you, and like a previous poster said, no one is making you do it. But if you want to go to the USA, then you respect and adhear to their rules, regulations and laws.

[AT20000 33]

Well I have NO problem AT ALL neither with DNA testing nor medical exam. I have had my medical examination France and they did not check my genitals! I have a problem with having anybody I did not chose as MY physician ask to see my genitals or worse stick his fingers in it when I have a natural son and a DNA test can do the job much better! I guess my current occupation in the medical & clinical research gives a little more "sense" to what I am saying maybe or is it not enough for you to be credible?

So u can be ironic as much as you want , wear all the jewerly you want (the one that made all these brillant comments will recognize herself, sorry for the others), mimic a drag queen if you want or go there dressed as a truck driver if it suits you! On a strict medical point of view :A peek at genitals DOES NOT insure AT ALL the TRUE gender of the patient being checked since some TRUE MALES are having their genitals stuck in their abdomen and plastic surgery has made so many improvements that even a very well trained surgeon will NEVER be able to make the difference between a "fixed" man and a real woman without checking the ovaries (that is to say with an invasive examination)OR checking DNA. So the medical foundation of that "peek" is....Nonexistant!

Pffffew! We're lucky no one decided to check another orifice or make us wear a tattoo on our forehead!I am kidding but I'm sure some would find it normal.If it was not that concerning, it would be laughable!

Im certainly not going kowtow like a sheep heading to slaughter & accept ANYTHING since I am NOT marrying an American guy because I desperatly want to immigrate to the USA....So here, there or in Papua, I do not care as long as we live together. That is maybe making a dramatic difference

[canadian_wife 1,791]

You have no 'right' to immigrate to the US. Until they amend the consitution to include immigration, you must jump through the hoops they want you to.

You won't have a DNA test, no matter how much you bark about it.

Just relax, make your case easy. Throwing a fit over a physical examination isn't worth the risk

Good luck

[AT20000 33]

This is my opinion only.

I have viewed the entire process from a "new" persons point of view.

When you are born in your country, on your birth cert. it gives some family history, it says you name, DOB, gender, a parent signs it ... ect. Then you go to school and have a student ID maybe, then you get a drivers licence, maybe some college. You file taxes and tell the government where you live/work/study.

The point is, at any time your government can access your entire life through the paperwork.

Now you want to come to a new country ... well .. they know nothing about you ... so you have to tell them.

Your country knows your gender .. they checked you at birth. But this country that you want to go to ... they dont.

Dont look at it as a personal affront. Try to respect the process. Anyone can look at me, and say .. shes is female .. but that isnt a physical exam .. so I have to do one .. and if they check to verify me as a female .. so be it. It is one law for everyone straight across the board, no one is exempt. It isnt a personal attack on you, and like a previous poster said, no one is making you do it. But if you want to go to the USA, then you respect and adhear to their rules, regulations and laws.

Blue Bonnet please don't take it for you neither (and above all my previous answer that was aimed to the very nice lady that made all these nice comments) but I am in the medical for 15 years.... I guess it gives me a bit of "weight" in what I am talking about.

Due to improvements of plastic surgery and all what I have said about male genitals remaining in the abdomen (which is quite frequent) I can tell you that NOWHERE on that planet A SERIOUS physician would write down on a certificate just by taking a peek "This is a woman or a fixed guy" and engage his professional responsability on that without a DNA test! This kind of peek-procedure has NO medical foundation. So when one is checking a person that ALREADY delivered a baby at one point, it means that AT LEAST this person is having a Uterus. JUST THIS FACT leaves NO DOUBT about the gender.

So I really do not mind them to take my DNA and even keep it (since I have nothing to hide) to check my gender and any criminal record if they want. But for the rest, I am sorry but the scandal it makes on CNN and national TV each time an athlete is facing that kind of checking PROVES it is offendant and degrading(remember the Williams sisters or more recently Caster Semenya )So what is offendant for an athlete is offendant for anybody. ABOVE ALL when a simple blood test could avoid that!

It is NOT like if I was going there giving them nothing! They have all the birth certificates of me and my parents (all sworn before a court of course)They have my son's birth certificate too (so unless Im a fish and I changed sex after I gave birth... There is only one solution) all the (empty)criminal records possible so don't tell me they know nothing about me! I am sure the police in my own country does not know that much! LOL

Edited September 18, 2010 by AgnesT

[candn 17]

Much ado about nothing. They may NOT even want to look at your nether regions. I think you are working yourself up for nothing at this point. IF they do decide to give you such an exam, you have the right to decline. It makes no difference to the doctor one way or the other. He or she is not the one trying to get to the U.S.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Comment inappropriate for the Immigration forums has been removed. Acceptable parts of the removed post are returned here:

Gary and Alla: There is ONE medical overseas before the interview. IF you file for AOS within one year of that medical exam, there is no need for another.

As mentioned in other posts, the qualification of one's gender can be met in many ways. I guess C-section scars can qualify.

__________________________________________________________

Moderator's hat off - re: gender check for immigrants. They are basically assuming that if you write male you are male and if you write female you are female. A quick check will ascertain those particular differences unless someone is deliberately trying to disguise their gender. They don't expect people to be doing that. If the 'quick peek' shows problems, then yes, they would probably explore further but a normal male or female is not going to have problems. It really is a non-issue. A quick peak really is all that it is - and it isn't a close peek either. There is definitely no touching. (At least in countries not considered high fraud countries and yours isn't considered high fraud)

A DNA test will run you around $1200 and takes several weeks to several months to receive results. It is not normally done and very few medical facilities are set up to do DNA testing. You would have to make an appointment at a special facility and add whatever time all of this additional testing takes to your process, if you are even allowed to submit a DNA result instead of a quick peek. USCIS/DOS do use DNA tests (paid for by the applicant) generally if someone is requesting a family member to immigrate (other than spouse) and their home country has a known problem with documents (missing, destroyed, altered, never kept, etc.). Such DNA test are not to prove gender but to prove consanguinity (degree of relationship) . I strongly suspect that if you asked for a DNA test instead of a quick visual check it would raise suspicions that maybe you did have something to hide as the request is so unexpected - and in their eyes - probably unreasonable.

The Immigration physician may not be a doctor you have personally chosen, but it is the doctor who is appointed by USCIS to determine if you are medically fit to enter the US. If you wish to come to the US, then you need to satisfy their criteria, which includes the medical exam. Quite honestly, they are going to be more on the lookout for the possibility of you having any contagious disease that would put the US population at risk - such as tuberculosis - than if you are an altered male or female.

The other question I have is that you said you already had a physical exam for immigration. If that is so, I have two comments: 1) they have already confirmed your gender during that exam to the degree they normally do for non-high fraud countries. If they didn't look below the waist then they saw enough elsewhere on you physically to determine you are a female. So that is what you were getting all upset about and as you can see, it really wasn't a big deal. 2) if you have had your medical exam and are immigrating to the US on a K-1, in all likelihood you will not need another medical exam. If you get married within the stated time period and apply to adjust status, if your K-1 medical was done less than a year prior to your applying for your green card, you do not need a new medical. You just need to provide an updated vaccination history on the appropriate form.

So, if you have already done your medical, you can safely disregard any comments others make to you about how you are going to be grilled by immigration to prove your gender. You will find there are a lot of 'experts' out there on immigration who have no idea what they are talking about. The people who told you that you could expect a grilling gender exam appear to fall into that category.

Good luck to you

Edited September 19, 2010 by Kathryn41

[newlyweds2010 208]

Nobody checked me "down there". The maximum of the physical contact was when the doctor touched me around my neck and under my armpits to make sure that the lymph nodes were ok.

[sciencenerd 56]

I was present for my wife's physical and she did not have to remove her clothes at all - it depends a lot on the doctor it seems. Also, transsexual people can immigrate as their current sex if their legal sex has been changed, implying that USCIS is not as interested in your genital configuration as your legal sex, which is proven by documentation.

[newlyweds2010 208]

And frankly, since you have been in the medical field for 15 years, you will agree that it is much worse to have an X-ray taken that nobody will ever check (you need a radiologist to figure out whether everything is fine, not a general doctor or a nurse or an immigration officer).

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Blue Bonnet please don't take it for you neither (and above all my previous answer that was aimed to the very nice lady that made all these nice comments) but I am in the medical for 15 years.... I guess it gives me a bit of "weight" in what I am talking about.

Due to improvements of plastic surgery and all what I have said about male genitals remaining in the abdomen (which is quite frequent) I can tell you that NOWHERE on that planet A SERIOUS physician would write down on a certificate just by taking a peek "This is a woman or a fixed guy" and engage his professional responsability on that without a DNA test! This kind of peek-procedure has NO medical foundation. So when one is checking a person that ALREADY delivered a baby at one point, it means that AT LEAST this person is having a Uterus. JUST THIS FACT leaves NO DOUBT about the gender.

So I really do not mind them to take my DNA and even keep it (since I have nothing to hide) to check my gender and any criminal record if they want. But for the rest, I am sorry but the scandal it makes on CNN and national TV each time an athlete is facing that kind of checking PROVES it is offendant and degrading(remember the Williams sisters or more recently Caster Semenya )So what is offendant for an athlete is offendant for anybody. ABOVE ALL when a simple blood test could avoid that!

It is NOT like if I was going there giving them nothing! They have all the birth certificates of me and my parents (all sworn before a court of course)They have my son's birth certificate too (so unless Im a fish and I changed sex after I gave birth... There is only one solution) all the (empty)criminal records possible so don't tell me they know nothing about me! I am sure the police in my own country does not know that much! LOL

FWIW, my mother has no ovaries or uterus. She had a radical hysterectomy when she was 23 because of ovarian cancer. Short of a DNA test, it would be impossible to confirm with any certainty that she was a female at the time of her birth. If she needed some sort of medical confirmation of her gender for any purpose whatever, I'm certain she would be more than happy to have doctor take a "peek" rather than forcing her to go to the expense and time of having a DNA test performed.

Anyway, I'm not aware of any requirement that they confirm the gender of the applicant during the physical examination, but they do have to screen them for medical grounds of inadmissibility, which includes communicable diseases of public health significance, physical or mental disorders with harmful behavior, and drug abuse or addiction. Communicable diseases that would make a person inadmissible include several venereal diseases. Mental illnesses with harmful behavior can leave physical scars on the body. IV drugs can be injected almost anywhere on the body. How could a medical examiner confirm that they had screened the applicant for medical inadmissibilities if they restricted their examination above the waist?

A "simple blood test" is not 100% confirmation that a person does not have a medical inadmissibility. A recent infection with syphilis might exhibit chancre sores before it was detectable in the blood. Needle scars can remain long after the drugs are no longer detectable in the blood. A mental illness with harmful behavior is never detectable in the blood. A physical examination might reveal signs of any of these.

If you have an objection to any part of the immigration process then you have the right to refuse to cooperate. You also have to accept that the result of your refusal will be that your application will be denied.

If it makes you feel any better, they're going to take your blood, as well.

[Darnell 8,478]

Since you've already had yer medical exam in France, you'll need to remember

that once you are IN the USA -

it's it been less than 1 year when you are filing the AOS package -

then is no need for another medical exam - but you'll need to see a

civil surgeon to update vaccination records with the I-693 form.

And that's it.

If it's been more than 1 year AFTER the last medical exam, then you

MIGHT be told to have a complete medical exam by a civil surgeon in

the USA. MAYBE.

Question is about the Medical Exam done for 'Adjustment of Status' , in USA, after arriving in USA on a K-1 visa.

*** moving to AOS forum ***

Edited September 19, 2010 by Darnell

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

Well, let's be clear this in NOT gonna happen to me! They can check my DNA if they want (which is the ONLY way to be sure) but I do not find this kind of behavior funny AT ALL this is shocking. In addition on a strict medical point of view "a peek" have never proved a patient to be truly a female (I guess that due to my medical occupation I can say that I know what I am talking about). Do they ask that to American Women before they marry? I doubt, otherwise they would be suffocating under a pile of lawyers summons. Do they do that to manly guys they receive? neither. So what is not acceptable for their women is not acceptable for me neither.

Any other nightmares of that type?

Goood one less peron.. haga.. guess you wont be immigrating and you just wasted your money.. you should stay where you are then since you have a "PERSONAL" issue. I did my medical here in Tennessee, USA about 6 hears ago.. it's a requirement and completely optional step.. you go think on that and decide where you's like to me... you're the one in 1/1,000,000,000 people refer to.. but oh well.

[Elham 1]

I didn't have such a thing!!! doctor just listened to my heart beat and touched my neck and asked some questions!!

[RightClicK 17]

I don't know what are you flipping over ? , Would not you sacrifice by your heart to be with your husband or your love ? , yes, you would (if you love him) , well, then checking you isn't a big thing to sacrifice by comparing with your life . Isn't it ?

I would show them my a$$ but just even approve me its gonna be 9 months of waiting soon , I don't give a ####### to what they want or see, I want to be with my wife , my LIFE .

Think again.

Best regards n Best luck

Sam

Edited September 19, 2010 by SamOnline

[nenooye 8]

surprising answers! i told my self..oh ohh get ready for that neno!