A Plea to Long Time, Level-Headed Members Who Still Post Here

[Pooky 3,348]

Did you just call Pooky old?

Oi! I resemble that comment!

[Darnell 8,478]

Go look in OT Steve, what do you see? How many threads can you see that have interesting topics up for discussion that have replies? How many threads can you see that are an obvious bait that have replies?

All these holier than thous who 'would post in OT if it wasn't a cesspool' people are talking bullshit. They have no more interest in engaging in lively discussions about a variety of topics than you do. You want people to talk about your pet topics but in a way that suits you or not at all and you think that's being a grown up?

What I believe is that people for the most part want to engage in light hearted banter without doing too much thinking or research and occasionally this gets out of hand and becomes ugly and the sensitive folks get their feathers ruffled. That's how it is, that's how people are. Like it or lump it, but change it? I don't think you can make people keep their emotions in check and some people are simply not capable of articulating anything other than emotional claptrap and if you think for one moment I am going to be civil to boorish, bigoted folks you have another think coming. What you are saying is that everyone's opinion has equal merit and should be given respect and I am telling you that that is the biggest pile of poo yet.

I don't like moderation, but I accept that this board is moderated and stay within the guidelines, or accept any punishment meted out for not doing so. I don't hope to influence the moderators one way or another, they do their job and I am grateful that they are for the most part fair considering they operate on the basis of responding to complaints rather than reading everything and removing everything that falls outside of the TOS. I also believe that there are some opinions that should not be swept under the carpet on a site that caters for immigrants from all around the world who have varying degrees of understanding of the immigration process and what is and isn't within the rules of immigration and that should be dealt with at the very least with posts condemning the opinions that make VJ OT appear to reflect a narrow minded, bigoted view of the American people and what they stand for.

IMO, those 'worst offenders' for the last 3 quarters should be banned from VJ, accounts closed. I understand what yer saying here, and actually agree with it. The final 'what to do', again IMO, is to flush them , be here no more. Warnings via PM from the management hasn't worked (I'm assuming PMs were sent) and they're still doing it.

[TBoneTX 43,065]

IMO, those 'worst offenders' for the last 3 quarters should be banned from VJ, accounts closed.

Si, man, perhaps on the basis of number of warnings issued over a particular time span.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

I almost wonder if you have to perform and live stream onto OT ritual human sacrifice of a beloved VJer, topped off with a cannibalistic finale, to get banned around here.

[Heracles 417]

Now this is too funny. So just because we disagree with one another we are baiting or bringing down OT.

I can count on one hand how many times legacy members with right leaning views have come on and personally insulted people or thrown out labels akin to bigot, racist, brown hater, etc etc. It's obvious that to some here, that is an acceptable form of discussion. They don't know how or care to discuss, for example, the impact of illegal aliens and so forth but simply block their ears and claim that person hates brown people or is a bigot. Furthermore, then claim we are the ones debating like thirteen year olds.

People talk about the good old days. Come again? Those were the days when the board was ripe with ultra-libs who got away with every TOS violation under the sun but the second you fought back - suspension period. Yes the same people who simply enter a thread to follow members around they dislike.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

its official. steven is getting whipped at his own game & now he's looking for help.

for this 'plea' to be taken remotely serious YOU would need to quit throwing red herring all day. at least 60% of you theads are designed to cause flame wars. then bump that % up to once someone disagrees with your pov. thats when the, 'bigoted' 'racist' '**' 'flat earther' 'narrow minded' 'xenophobe' 'right wing terrorist' to name a few cans of your trademark gasoline start pumping out of your keyboard. then it goes to 'you're a troll', 'this is XYZ post under your real account'.. face it steven the days of the mods showing gross favoritism & bias are gone... if you quit looking for flame wars, you'll quit getting them.

you're an organizer move it to OT. steven you posted a OT style red herring thread in the site & related -A Plea to Long Time, Level-Headed Members Who Still Post Here-... did you think the people you bicker with & routinely attack aren't going to come read & respond to this?

OMG! this is probabaly a TOS violation. but, the 'experiment' was intended to be an unmoderated forum & it was for sometime for everyone. then certain people wanted certain others moderated. thats when the 'spam patrol' was born. the 'spam patrol' actually was instructed to & did only moderated 1 person, kept the board free of that poster & actual spam. oddly the same people asking for that person to be gone, kept talking about him 24/7...all the while it was still pretty much anything goes for everyone else. well thats not right is it? he was let back to at least defend himself..he then was booted..came back..booted..came back on & on. meanwhile people were still going on unmoderated. a group of people...actually several different groups of people didn't appreciate the tone of the conversations on the 'experiment' nor the results coming from those conversation..'cross sites'. so cross sites were launched back....hmm a TOS that almost mirrors another we were all firmiliar with was now in place....yet still not applied word for word. the former 'spam squad' forced into a 'moderator' role were instantly in a no win sitsuation. so what to do? lets see what happens. you know what happened steven. it became crystal clear that some people wanted an unmoderated forum for themselves, but not for everyone. because when the moderators on the 'experiment' did anything. it was days of 'wha wha abuse of power'. so they let it go some more. it came back to the same thing. the ones wanting the unmoderated forum couldn't take the flames coming back at them. so they left. soMEone finally got the original 'problem' to chill...but people still don't like the venom when it gets spit right back at them. so it remains a 'ghost town'....

lead change by setting an example if you want the OT to chill steven.

N/S me either

Spot on there..

[TBoneTX 43,065]

ritual human sacrifice [...] topped off with a cannibalistic finale

Watch your language, Dear... it's lunchtime.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

It's only 9.39am here -- one can easily wash down human sacrifice, with or without cannibalism, with a Coke Zero at this time of the morning.

[Captain Ewok 1,857]

We are discussing an automated policy whereby members accruing a certain number of suspensions in a given period of time will automatically get "additional" time off. The "time off" would escalate if that frequency is higher.

Example (these are not solid times; example only):

Member A gets 2 suspensions within a 1 month period: Algorithm issues an additional 3 day suspension.

Member A gets 5 suspensions within 6 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 14 day suspension.

Member A gets 8 suspensions within 12 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 28 day suspension.

Member A gets 10 suspensions within 18 months period: Algorithm issues an additional two month suspension.

Members will be warned in advanced of how close they are to hitting a limit (via and automated email if they are suspended).

This is not official (yet) nor are the dates or total list of "triggers" set. The goal would be to allow the mods to do their job and automatically have habitual offenders "caught" and warnings issued. VisaJourney should be a pleasure for everyone to use. There will be disagreements, sure, however there should never be a case where people feel like they are forced off the site by purposefully "mean" members or any other type of "dark cloud".

[The_Dude 1,142]

We are discussing an automated policy whereby members accruing a certain number of suspensions in a given period of time will automatically get "additional" time off. The "time off" would escalate if that frequency is higher.

Example (these are not solid times; example only):

Member A gets 2 suspensions within a 1 month period: Algorithm issues an additional 3 day suspension.

Member A gets 5 suspensions within 6 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 14 day suspension.

Member A gets 8 suspensions within 12 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 28 day suspension.

Member A gets 10 suspensions within 18 months period: Algorithm issues an additional two month suspension.

Members will be warned in advanced of how close they are to hitting a limit (via and automated email if they are suspended).

This is not official (yet) nor are the dates or total list of "triggers" set. The goal would be to allow the mods to do their job and automatically have habitual offenders "caught" and warnings issued. VisaJourney should be a pleasure for everyone to use. There will be disagreements, sure, however there should never be a case where people feel like they are forced off the site by purposefully "mean" members or any other type of "dark cloud".

This still doesn't address the arbitrary and capricious nature in which moderators enforce TOS in OT.

[Heracles 417]

Its understandable to let emotions get the best of us sometimes, but shouldn't we try to always return to a neutral level headedness?

Personally, I like to enter a new thread with a clean slate. Hence, why I rarely bring up comments made in the past. People who agree with some on one issue but then disagree with others on another are objective; however, they are far and few. I couldn't tell you what I posted a week ago, let alone keeping track of what others posted many years ago. I also don't follow members around that I dislike for the sole purpose of antagonizing them. I was suspended the other week (for a week) because of a member bringing up a comment taken out of context from two to three years ago. My mistake was trying to, once again, explain its context; yet I was suspended.

OT cannot win because people will ###### it's being over-regulated, then people will say nothing is being done.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Booyah!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

This still doesn't address the arbitrary and capricious nature in which moderators enforce TOS in OT.

Right. Different moderators handle violations differently, some give out more suspensions than others.

Unless you issue guidelines that are clear, concise and unambiguous on precisely what constitutes a violation and what does not, and unless each suspension is transparent to the community so everyone knows precisely what behaviors result in suspensions, your algorithm will be useless.

To use a workplace cliche, what you have here is a process problem, not a technology problem.

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

We are discussing an automated policy whereby members accruing a certain number of suspensions in a given period of time will automatically get "additional" time off. The "time off" would escalate if that frequency is higher.

Example (these are not solid times; example only):

Member A gets 2 suspensions within a 1 month period: Algorithm issues an additional 3 day suspension.

Member A gets 5 suspensions within 6 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 14 day suspension.

Member A gets 8 suspensions within 12 months period: Algorithm issues an additional 28 day suspension.

Member A gets 10 suspensions within 18 months period: Algorithm issues an additional two month suspension.

Members will be warned in advanced of how close they are to hitting a limit (via and automated email if they are suspended).

This is not official (yet) nor are the dates or total list of "triggers" set. The goal would be to allow the mods to do their job and automatically have habitual offenders "caught" and warnings issued. VisaJourney should be a pleasure for everyone to use. There will be disagreements, sure, however there should never be a case where people feel like they are forced off the site by purposefully "mean" members or any other type of "dark cloud".

hopefully, the algorithm won't count the additional suspension in the total count, as a 2 suspension in one month could have 3 outta 5 strikes with 5 months to look forward to.

these won't be retroactive, will they?

[Heracles 417]

Right. Different moderators handle violations differently, some give out more suspensions than others.

Unless you issue guidelines that are clear, concise and unambiguous on precisely what constitutes a violation and what does not, and unless each suspension is transparent to the community so everyone knows precisely what behaviors result in suspensions, your algorithm will be useless.

To use a workplace cliche, what you have here is a process problem, not a technology problem.

Like anything, much comes down to opinion. For example, I say a joke about Incas and I get suspended for a week. You guys berate Aussies and label them dirty rotten convicts (weekly) but that is funny because they are Caucasians. Do you see the quagmire here for mods?

Otto suspended me because of a picture which both he and my bud Rob claim was promoting the abuse of women. Whereas, to the rest of us that are "level-headed", it was clearly a silly pic and nothing more.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Like anything, much comes down to opinion.

Which is why you need an initial set of guidelines which are concise and unambiguous. And then, as the moderators make decisions on a case by case basis, each decision needs to be transparent to the community so we all understand how the standards are being applied.

The current set-up where moderator decisions are made in a room with the lights turned off simply won't be effective.