Minneapolis Shooting [spelling in title corrected]

[Crazy Cat 46,019]

9 hours ago, speedster said:

What body part was flung in the air and hit again? 

Who has made that claim?  She struck him with her car.  He fired in self defense.  Pretty clear justified.  This driver knew these were federal agents.....who had legally ordered her out of the car. 

Edited yesterday at 12:16 PM by Crazy Cat

[appleblossom 5,650]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Is a vehicle not a potential weapon?

 

Yes, but according to the DOJ's own guidelines, shootings for vehicle related incidents are only justified in very limited circumstances, neither of which fit from the videos I've seen. 

 

“Deadly force may not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing suspect.

 

Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle. Firearms may not be discharged from a moving vehicle except in exigent circumstances. In these situations, an officer must have an articulable reason for this use of deadly force.”

 

She was given conflicting instructions (some agents telling her to get out of the car, some telling her to move the car), nobody seemed to give her a warning or identify themselves, it doesn't look like she was aiming for the guy but instead backing up and then turning away from him, and he could have easily taken the time when he was getting ready to shoot to get out of the way instead. 

 

But as @ghostinthemachine said, I think we'll all just be coming at this from opposite viewpoints. There are already comments on this thread that are beyond belief for me, but I don't see the point in engaging in those. I'd love to debate (politely, and respectfully) sometimes, but the right wing viewpoints on this forum are often so extreme that it's just not worthwhile. I can't see how anybody can say that shooting this woman was justified, but I suspect others will not see how anybody can say it wasn't. The US is a very divided nation right now, and things like this will only make that worse unfortunately. 

[yuna628 9,949]

Was it justified? Hard to say. I see no evidence that the officer was run over or struck in any way. That does not mean he didn't feel as if he was going to be run over or struck. I don't know if the facts support his feelings however. I do see many things in video that made the situation almost certain to happen, and in fact it will likely happen again. There was some information that this officer had been struck before, and well I'd imagine some PTSD might be at play here. Still, as someone that once lived in an inner city, these sort of situations happened with our PD all the time. Some were justified and some were not - but all were complex cases. Could the family sue? I imagine they will try.

[Liam2021 592]

I'm rarely comments on any topic like this, but from my POV, let the investigation play out. Blocking federal agent vehichle on public street is wrong and the federal agent also too agressive in this situation. For me, if I see any vehicle with sirent light on the public street, I yield. Other than that, no one can go into my house without a warrant.

[Boiler 48,454]

Now the precedent has been set it is now ok to drive over the Just Stop Oil etc blocking roads

 

Interesting

 

i am more interested in who is funding this no shortage of useful idiots

[Crazy Cat 46,019]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I see no evidence that the officer was run over or struck in any way

The camera view from the front appears to show the officer was struck, imo...Regardless, she drove toward him.. Self Defense.My opinion.

Edited 22 hours ago by Crazy Cat

[Crazy Cat 46,019]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Could the family sue?

If I were the officer, I would absolutely sue some people.   These politicians are much, much, much, much too careless with their words and slanderous accusations.

Edited 22 hours ago by Crazy Cat

[Boiler 48,454]

I thought he ended up in hospital?

[yuna628 9,949]

42 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I thought he ended up in hospital?

Those claims were not correct and it would be helpful if officials could stop making things up.

43 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

The camera view from the front appears to show the officer was struck, imo...Regardless, she drove toward him.. Self Defense.My opinion.

I'm just not seeing anyone struck whatsoever. One officer screams for her to get out of the vehicle another is telling her to move the vehicle. Another points a gun? I know you know what you'd do in that situation, but there's a lot of people that wouldn't know what to do. Of course neither of us would put ourselves in that situation to begin with. But as I said to my husband this morning, people should not think that they can protest, agitate, get themselves into situations or whatever and expect everything to turn out like the Andy Griffith Show. I've seen it happen so many times in the city, and there's a lot of times the officer in question loses the case. The city ends up paying out. Don't know what will happen here. Got to feel for him if he thought she was going to hit him, but I don't see the evidence of it. It's a split decision he made.

[speedster 56]

6 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Feel free to add your take in the debate, just bring the receipts.  An investigation will determine if this was justified or not and investigations take time.  I know, Jacob Frey has already made up his mind, but from the videos I have seen, this appears justified, still it is too early to make that full conclusion.  What may conclude at least politically, is this is what the Left wants by their bombastic and detrimental rhetoric, and their constant need to portray lawlessness and the folks that support that as victims.  Heck, look at the judge that just resigned in WI, according to her, it was everyone else's fault she had to resign except her's.  She was convicted of a felony and WI state law prohibits anyone convicted of a felony from serving as a judge.

 

Is a vehicle not a potential weapon?  I am not sure what you are talking about being hit again.  Are you saying law enforcement agencies do not train to protect themselves along with the public when being attacked?  What if the ICE agent had found a way to get out of the path of the vehicle and she had struck and killed someone else?  I suspect you might be saying something different, or maybe the agent should have just let her run over him, you know "progress".

Huh, why you look at that awful training practices, oh if he had time to pull out a gun then he had time to take 2 steps to the right.

But wait there's more: 

What's this? The ICE officers to firmly planted feet the exact second he fired the firearm. The gun was shot from the side, not the front. 5 shots from the side.

Regardless of all that, any lawyer and previous cases will tell you that the minute the vehicle turned it's wheels away the officer was never in danger. Remember EVERY shot needs to be justified if shot 1 was justified, doesn't mean shot 2-5 was. Police involved shootings has shown us this

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

[Crazy Cat 46,019]

Some people think the officer had unlimited time to handle the situation.....In fact, he had a split second as he saw the vehicle lunge forward.  His life was in danger, and he acted within the law.  Case closed as far as I am concerned.

 

This is my last comment on this subject.

Edited 21 hours ago by Crazy Cat

[Dashinka 26,415]

13 minutes ago, speedster said:

Huh, why you look at that awful training practices, oh if he had time to pull out a gun then he had time to take 2 steps to the right.

But wait there's more: 

What's this? The ICE officers to firmly planted feet the exact second he fired the firearm. The gun was shot from the side, not the front. 5 shots from the side.

Regardless of all that, any lawyer and previous cases will tell you that the minute the vehicle turned it's wheels away the officer was never in danger. Remember EVERY shot needs to be justified if shot 1 was justified, doesn't mean shot 2-5 was. Police involved shootings has shown us this

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Yep, let the investigation play out, and if a bad shoot, that agent should face the consequences, but I am glad to see your mind is made up.  If the investigation does conclude it was justified, will you accept that?

 

I am not sure what Party you are referring to as I do not belong to a Party.  Used to be a Democrat (long time ago), but their headlong drive to socialism turned me off them.

 

I am curious as to why these extreme left activists are tracking, following and harassing ICE agents?  Are the ICE agents enforcing laws not on the books?  Shouldn’t these activists be protesting the actual lawmakers?

Edited 21 hours ago by Dashinka

[speedster 56]

21 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Yep, let the investigation play out, and if a bad shoot, that agent should face the consequences, but I am glad to see your mind is made up.  If the investigation does conclude it was justified, will you accept that?

 

I am not sure what Party you are referring to as I do not belong to a Party.  Used to be a Democrat (long time ago), but their headlong drive to socialism turned me off them.

 

I am curious as to why these extreme left activists are tracking, following and harassing ICE agents?  Are the ICE agents enforcing laws not on the books?  Shouldn’t these activists be protesting the actual lawmakers?

 

Let what investigation play out? The one DHS is doing where Noem said she was a domestic terrorist before they even found out her name or got her out of the car to the ambulance ICE was blocking.
Or letting a independent agency of the BCA take care of this?

If an nonpartisan group with a full investigation conclude it was justified, I will accept it. 

[TBoneTX 48,894]

I suspect that the "wife" (perhaps a radical leftist) dragged the victim (perhaps nice, per her mother) to the scene to participate in filming, for social media et al.  The "wife" all but admitted it on the scene.

[appleblossom 5,650]

43 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I am not sure what Party you are referring to as I do not belong to a Party

 

It's a George Orwell 1984 quote.