Anyone REALLY lost naturalization certificate in the mail after passport?

[MrKo 60]

Reading through the online platforms it looks like most people who claim they have "lost" their NC did either receive it eventually after longer wait, or simply never come back online thereafter to post an update. So I'm interested to see if anyone here REALLY ended up NEVER receiving the citizenship doc (after months or years)?

 

I'm also a little confused about the consequences of losing the NC after you've already received your passport. Some people say that you won't be able to sponsor your family members for immigration purposes without original NC, or you won't be able to apply for a new passport in case your current passport also gets lost. I found both to be untrue (correct me if I'm wrong). Because first, USCIS accepts your US passport as evidence of citizenship, you might need to provide your NC number or just a photocopy of your NC (if you did make a photocopy after oath ceremony) but that's all they need, they don't seem to require you to present an original NC. Secondly, to apply for a new passport in case your current passport also gets lost, according the DOS, "You may request a File Search instead of submitting evidence of U.S. Citizenship", that's also a lot faster than getting a replacement NC from USCIS.

 

So the only true consequence that I can think of, in case the NC really gets lost in the mail, is ID theft. And of course, emotionally, it is a valuable document that we've spent so much time getting and it's good to have, but once we have received our US passport there's really very little chance that we'll ever use our NC again in our future life, no?

[Mike E 11,745]

A lost naturalization certificate can have the following impacts:

 

* You might  be unable to register to vote online in some states.  Tennessee for example.  You can register in person with your passport 
 

* You might be unable to petition a spouse fir a green card.  At the AOS interview for my wife, my naturalization certificate was required 

 

* certain jobs in the federal government require a naturalization certificate 

[SteveInBostonI130 3,489]

My sister.  Her NC never made it to the passport center.  She requested a new NC from USCIS.  She has her replacement in a safety deposit box but her original is lost.

[MrKo 60]

4 minutes ago, Mike E said:

A lost naturalization certificate can have the following impacts:

 

* You might  be unable to register to vote online in some states.  Tennessee for example.  You can register in person with your passport 
 

* You might be unable to petition a spouse fir a green card.  At the AOS interview for my wife, my naturalization certificate was required 

 

* certain jobs in the federal government require a naturalization certificate 

* Does registering to vote online require you to present an ORIGINAL NC? If so how do present an original online? I assume a photocopy or scan might work?

* For the USCIS purposes, if we tell the officer that our NC was lost during the passport application, I don't think that's a big problem. The worst case scenario IMO is case being delayed but I don't think they will deny your application. Of course, delaying an immigration case is a nightmare that no one wants to deal with... I understand.

* This probably might be the real impact since jobs in federal government could have special rules.

[MrKo 60]

12 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

My sister.  Her NC never made it to the passport center.  She requested a new NC from USCIS.  She has her replacement in a safety deposit box but her original is lost.

Sorry to hear that but thanks for sharing. According to others the postal office usually sends applications in bulk when initially applying, was she the only person who's NC never made it to the passport center? How long did she wait to get a replacement?

[Mike E 11,745]

10 minutes ago, MrKo said:

* Does registering to vote online require you to present an ORIGINAL NC? If so how do present an original online? I assume a photocopy or scan might work?

 

For that situation an electronic copy will work.  Don’t be surprised by how many people who fail to make an electronic or physical copy of their naturalization certificate.  We make people answer civics questions like how many amendments there are (who cares, really?) but don’t require  basic common sense to become a citizen.  
 

Quote

* For the USCIS purposes, if we tell the officer that our NC was lost during the passport application, I don't think that's a big problem. The worst case scenario IMO is case being delayed but I don't think they will deny your application. Of course, delaying an immigration case is a nightmare that no one wants to deal with... I understand.

 

Based on what?

 

That’s like saying if my wife lost her original birth documents due to a US goverment agency error that she would still get a green card. 
 

Quote

* This probably might be the real impact since jobs in federal government could have special rules.

lol.  Well thanks for minimizing my responses.  
 

I will never give the government a free pass for losing critical documents and nor will I belittle the situations of those who have had their documents lost by the government 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mike E

[SteveInBostonI130 3,489]

1 minute ago, MrKo said:

Sorry to hear that but thanks for sharing. According to others the postal office usually sends applications in bulk when initially applying, was she the only person who's NC never made it to the passport center? How long did she wait to get a replacement?

No idea if anyone else lost theirs, or even how to get that information.  She sent in her application, she called after a couple months when she didn't receive her passport, they said they never received her NC.

 

It took her about 6 months to get her replacement NC.

 

 

 

 

 

[MrKo 60]

15 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

Based on what?

 

Based on USCIS's official documentation where it says "Proof of petitioner's U.S. Citizenship in the form of a valid U.S. Passport; Birth Certificate; OR Naturalization Certificate":

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/checklists/I-130_Petition_Checklist.pdf

 

I also learned that not everyone has their citizenship documents especially those who become citizens automatically upon naturalization of their parent. Another USCIS document https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/A4en.pdf introduces how to have citizenship recognized:

 

How do I apply to have my citizenship recognized?
You have two options:
• You can apply to the U.S. Department of State for a U.S. passport. A passport is evidence of citizenship and also serves as a travel document if you need to travel. For information about applying for a U.S. passport, see the U.S. Department of State Web site at www.state.gov.
• If you are already in the United States, you also have the option of applying to USCIS using Form N-600, Application for Certificate of Citizenship. However, you may find applying for a passport to be more convenient because it also serves as a travel document and could be a faster process.

 

My understanding to USCIS's above words is that they "kinda" suggest that in case you do not have a citizenship document and you're eligible for filing N600, you can still simply just apply for a US passport instead of paying over $1000 for N600, because it's faster and cheaper, and then solely use your passport as your citizenship evidence, including when the time you need to file I130 for your family members.

 

27 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

lol.  Well thanks for minimizing my responses.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to minimize your response. If I gave you that feeling I apologize for that.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

I will never give the government a free pass for losing critical documents and nor will I belittle the situations of those who have had their documents lost by the government 

 

Agree with you on that.

[MrKo 60]

46 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

No idea if anyone else lost theirs, or even how to get that information.  She sent in her application, she called after a couple months when she didn't receive her passport, they said they never received her NC.

 

It took her about 6 months to get her replacement NC.

 

 

 

 

 

I can imagine how much frustration she has gone through. Glad that she got her replacement.

[Mike E 11,745]

1 hour ago, MrKo said:

Based on USCIS's official documentation where it says "Proof of petitioner's U.S. Citizenship in the form of a valid U.S. Passport; Birth Certificate; OR Naturalization Certificate":

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/checklists/I-130_Petition_Checklist.pdf

 

An I-130 is not the same as an I-485. The requirements are different.

 

The requirements for an I-130 and I-129F are thin compared to subsequent phases. For instance our I-129F was approved without the beneficiary providing birth records. When we got to consular processing stage, we needed more. When we got to I-485 stage, we needed even more.

 

And one more time: I was not given the option of providing my US passport at the I-485 interview. I wasn't told:

 

"Let me see your proof of US citizenship."

 

I was told:

 

"Let me see your naturalization certificate."

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, MrKo said:

 

I also learned that not everyone has their citizenship documents especially those who become citizens automatically upon naturalization of their parent. Another USCIS document https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/A4en.pdf introduces how to have citizenship recognized:

 

How do I apply to have my citizenship recognized?
You have two options:
• You can apply to the U.S. Department of State for a U.S. passport. A passport is evidence of citizenship and also serves as a travel document if you need to travel. For information about applying for a U.S. passport, see the U.S. Department of State Web site at www.state.gov.
• If you are already in the United States, you also have the option of applying to USCIS using Form N-600, Application for Certificate of Citizenship. However, you may find applying for a passport to be more convenient because it also serves as a travel document and could be a faster process.

 

Which is at best naive advice from USCIS, and at worst criminally negligent advice from USCIS. There are those who don't have their Certificate of Citizenship as adults, and their parents as long since lost their naturalization and marriage certificates. Or worse for children born abroad to US citizens, the evidences of physical presence of the parent(s) has withered away. 

 

Such automatic citizens  find themselves in a tough spot today. I see these posts on various forums at least once a month. A recent one was a guy who was natural born citizen born outside the USA to an American father but is unable to prove physical presence of the father. Meanwhile the guy had racked up a long rap sheet of convictions and the governments wants to deport him.

 

If your child was born in the USA, register the birth that week, and get at least two birth certificates, get the child an SSN, and then get the child a passport and passport card.

 

If your child was born outside the USA and was born a citizen, get the child a CRBA as soon as possible, get the child a passport and passport card, and then get the child an SSN. If you cannot get a CRBA, then get the child a certificate of citizenship.

 

If your child was born outside the USA and acquired citizenship later, get the child a passport and passport card, an SSN if the child hasn't one, and then get the child a certificate of citizenship.

 

[JeanneAdil 6,723]

7 hours ago, MrKo said:

* Does registering to vote online require you to present an ORIGINAL NC? If so how do present an original online? I assume a photocopy or scan might work?

* For the USCIS purposes, if we tell the officer that our NC was lost during the passport application, I don't think that's a big problem. The worst case scenario IMO is case being delayed but I don't think they will deny your application. Of course, delaying an immigration case is a nightmare that no one wants to deal with... I understand.

* This probably might be the real impact since jobs in federal government could have special rules.

Tennessee and this can be different from state to state even county to county

i took Adil's appliction in to the office to register him

they never asked to see his ID or naturalization document (i took them but they just took the application and sent out a voter registration card about 2 weeks later

[HRQX 4,145]

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

An I-130 is not the same as an I-485. The requirements are different.

That is true. But note that the interview notice says "petitioner's evidence of United States Citizenship"

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

And one more time: I was not given the option of providing my US passport at the I-485 interview. I wasn't told:

 

"Let me see your proof of US citizenship."

 

I was told:

 

"Let me see your naturalization certificate."

If an IO wrongfully takes adverse action for only showing US passport instead of naturalization certificate then hopefully their supervisor catches the error. The applicant can also contact the CIS Ombudsman: https://www.dhs.gov/topic/cis-ombudsman/forms/7001 "I have received an action or decision that involves clear errors of fact or gross and obvious misapplication of the relevant law by USCIS."

 

USCIS PM link: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a

[MrKo 60]

6 hours ago, Mike E said:

 

An I-130 is not the same as an I-485. The requirements are different.

 

The requirements for an I-130 and I-129F are thin compared to subsequent phases. For instance our I-129F was approved without the beneficiary providing birth records. When we got to consular processing stage, we needed more. When we got to I-485 stage, we needed even more.

 

And one more time: I was not given the option of providing my US passport at the I-485 interview. I wasn't told:

 

"Let me see your proof of US citizenship."

 

I was told:

 

"Let me see your naturalization certificate."

 

 

 

 

Which is at best naive advice from USCIS, and at worst criminally negligent advice from USCIS. There are those who don't have their Certificate of Citizenship as adults, and their parents as long since lost their naturalization and marriage certificates. Or worse for children born abroad to US citizens, the evidences of physical presence of the parent(s) has withered away. 

 

Such automatic citizens  find themselves in a tough spot today. I see these posts on various forums at least once a month. A recent one was a guy who was natural born citizen born outside the USA to an American father but is unable to prove physical presence of the father. Meanwhile the guy had racked up a long rap sheet of convictions and the governments wants to deport him.

 

If your child was born in the USA, register the birth that week, and get at least two birth certificates, get the child an SSN, and then get the child a passport and passport card.

 

If your child was born outside the USA and was born a citizen, get the child a CRBA as soon as possible, get the child a passport and passport card, and then get the child an SSN. If you cannot get a CRBA, then get the child a certificate of citizenship.

 

If your child was born outside the USA and acquired citizenship later, get the child a passport and passport card, an SSN if the child hasn't one, and then get the child a certificate of citizenship.

 

I understand what you saying. But I think we're talking about different things here. What I wanted to say is that, by law, a US passport, once approved and received, should be sufficient when it comes to proving your citizenship status whenever needed, including sponsoring family members for immigration purposes. At least that's what USCIS official documentations say.

 

But you seem to be talking about incidents where lawful citizens being improperly treated when they are not in possession of naturalization/citizenship certificates. The reason behind these horrible incidents doesn't seem to be the law or regulation itself, but rather due to human factors or human "errors", be it lack of legal knowledge or bureaucracy or even racism, which is of course a problem that needs to be recognized and addressed. And I agree that as long as it hasn't been fixed and as long as we still live in an imperfect world, we should always be more prepared and cautious rather than depending our lives on others and expecting them to always know the law and treat us as we want to be treated.

[MrKo 60]

Just FYI, it's been over 10 days since my passport application has been approved. I have received my passport and passport card over a week ago but to this day my NC has not arrived. I called the passport service today and they told me my NC had been mailed out on the day my passport was approved. I hope, like I said in this post, it would eventually show up.

[Hadassah123 523]

2 hours ago, MrKo said:

Just FYI, it's been over 10 days since my passport application has been approved. I have received my passport and passport card over a week ago but to this day my NC has not arrived. I called the passport service today and they told me my NC had been mailed out on the day my passport was approved. I hope, like I said in this post, it would eventually show up.

My husband and I applied for our daughter's first passport the last week of December. Her passport came in the mail the last week of January and her birth certificate came in a separate envelop a week after. Which makes me think that's similar to your situation. Additional documents just get sent separately from the passport itself.