B1/B2 Visa for Parents Advise Needed

[DmytriiD 186]

Hi Community,

I am pretty sure this was already asked here, but I need some assistance with this.
So, in 2018 I moved to the US on K1 Visa and me and my wife were planning a wedding, so we invited our families.
My parents (citizens of Ukraine) both got denied and after that we never tried again, but we would like to try get them visas so they can visit again.

They applied for b1/b2 visas and denial was stating the following (I requested US Embassy in Kiev to provide explanation in writing by email and they did):
*the email is very long, but the below is the most important
"They have been found ineligible for a nonimmigrant visa under Section 214(b) of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act.  A denial under Section 214(b) means that they were not able to demonstrate that their intended activities in the United States would be consistent with the classification of the nonimmigrant visa for which they applied. An alien shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he or she establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, that he/she is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 101(a) (15). They have not demonstrated that they have sufficient ties to compel them to return to their home country after their travel to the United States. When they reapply, they will have to show further evidence of their ties or how their circumstances have changed since the time of the original application.  It may help to answer the following questions before reapplying: (1) Did I explain my situation accurately? (2) Is there any additional information I can present to establish my residence and strong ties abroad?"

Interview was very short:
Officer: Are you married?
Parents: Yes
Officer: What is reason of your travel to the US?
Parents: To attend our son's wedding. (they offered a written invitation to our wedding and officer took to look at it as well as our marriage certificate).
Officer: Do you have any other kids?
Parents: No
Officer: Who will be paying for your trip?
Parents: Our son insisted to pay for us, but we can pay ourselves. (they had bank statements to prove but officer didnt ask).
Officer: How did your son move to the US?
Parents: (my parents told the story that I moved on K1 visa)
Officer: Where do you work?
Parents: They both said where they work (my mom is a professor in the University and dad is retired police office, currently runs small business; mom offered a latter from work but office refused to look at it)
Officer: What countries did you visit in last year?
Parents: They named around 10-15 countries mainly in Europe as well as Egypt
Officer: You were not able to demonstrate that your intended activities in the United States would be consistent with the classification of the nonimmigrant visa for which you applied.

That is it.
So, what confuses me is the part about "they were not able to demonstrate that their intended activities in the United States would be consistent with the classification of the nonimmigrant visa for which they applied" ? So is visiting son's wedding is not b1/b2 visa ?
But anyway, I think visa type was correct and the actual reason is "ties to home country".

What advise you guys can give? I would like to have an ability to have my parents over to visit me, because otherwise when I get citizenship I will have to move them as family based immigration, but neither I or them want to do that because they don't speak English at all, so the life will be not fun if you can't communicate with outside world and also in my culture it is kind of not okay to live with own kids after they are 18 (or same for me, I don't want to live with them, I would like to have my own private life). But looks like this might be a case if US b1/b2 visa will never be granted to them...in the end of the day I don't want to abandon my parents when they are older.
But looks like under INA 214 (b) we got at least 3 problems: I am their only child who lives in the US (so no other kids to return to), they are traveling together (so no souse to return to as they travel together) and my dad has no full time job, he runs his business (considered as not important to return to ?).
However officer at the interview didnt ask any other potential ties to home country: for example my dad is handicap and he needs to have annual medical treatment in a specific place in Ukraine as well as they both are looking after my grandma. The question is should they mention this even if office is not asking if they apply again ?
What overall advise and strategy will you guys propose ? Strategy of being truthful and honest lead to failure 1st time, so I really need assistance to figure out how to proceed to avoid moving them here in the future. Should they maybe apply separately, not together ?
Also about me - I am currently pending I485, I360. I work legally and pay taxes. Never overstayed in any country or broke laws of any country as well as my parents.

[geowrian 22,335]

8 minutes ago, DmytriiD said:

So, what confuses me is the part about "they were not able to demonstrate that their intended activities in the United States would be consistent with the classification of the nonimmigrant visa for which they applied" ? So is visiting son's wedding is not b1/b2 visa ?

A B-1/B-2 visa has a presumption of immigrant intent, per INA 214(b). They were unable to overcome that presumption. As a result, they are presumed to be intending immigrants and that is not consistent with the use of a B-1/B-2 visa.

It's generic language that is a direct consequence of not being able to demonstrate sufficient ties. It does not mean it was the wrong visa type...a B-2 visa is fine to use for a wedding (even your own, actually...if you intended to return back home abroad afterwards).

 

11 minutes ago, DmytriiD said:

What advise you guys can give?

Honestly, there's not really anything to do really. The DS-160 tells them the vast majority of what they need to know to make a decision about ties. The interview is often more of a formality.

 

13 minutes ago, DmytriiD said:

However officer at the interview didnt ask any other potential ties to home country: for example my dad is handicap and he needs to have annual medical treatment in a specific place in Ukraine as well as they both are looking after my grandma. The question is should they mention this even if office is not asking if they apply again ?
What overall advise and strategy will you guys propose ? Strategy of being truthful and honest lead to failure 1st time, so I really need assistance to figure out how to proceed to avoid moving them here in the future. Should they maybe apply separately, not together ?

They can carry evidence of this with them next time, but the CO very rarely looks at any documents (as they already experienced). They cannot be verified on the spot (and a running joke/critique is you can get whatever document you need for a low price near the embassy/consulate). There's nothing stopping them from just trying to blurt out the info, but the reality is if they aren't asking about it, then it's not something they're going to consider.

 

Be truthful and honest. It didn't work last time, but that is the only legal option. There are things worse than a denial.

 

They can apply separately, but technically each application is already considered separately. It was entirely possible that the CO could have approved one of them and refused the other the last time. There's no harm applying separately, but there is no benefit either IMO. The Co isn't going to suddenly think they don't intend to immigrate any more because of different wording on the application, applying separately, etc. If these tricks worked, they would be all over the Internet in reputable sources.

[DmytriiD 186]

1 hour ago, geowrian said:

A B-1/B-2 visa has a presumption of immigrant intent, per INA 214(b). They were unable to overcome that presumption. As a result, they are presumed to be intending immigrants and that is not consistent with the use of a B-1/B-2 visa.

It's generic language that is a direct consequence of not being able to demonstrate sufficient ties. It does not mean it was the wrong visa type...a B-2 visa is fine to use for a wedding (even your own, actually...if you intended to return back home abroad afterwards).

 

Honestly, there's not really anything to do really. The DS-160 tells them the vast majority of what they need to know to make a decision about ties. The interview is often more of a formality.

 

They can carry evidence of this with them next time, but the CO very rarely looks at any documents (as they already experienced). They cannot be verified on the spot (and a running joke/critique is you can get whatever document you need for a low price near the embassy/consulate). There's nothing stopping them from just trying to blurt out the info, but the reality is if they aren't asking about it, then it's not something they're going to consider.

 

Be truthful and honest. It didn't work last time, but that is the only legal option. There are things worse than a denial.

 

They can apply separately, but technically each application is already considered separately. It was entirely possible that the CO could have approved one of them and refused the other the last time. There's no harm applying separately, but there is no benefit either IMO. The Co isn't going to suddenly think they don't intend to immigrate any more because of different wording on the application, applying separately, etc. If these tricks worked, they would be all over the Internet in reputable sources.

But applying separately will at least eliminate the risk of being denied because both spouses are traveling to their own child. In this case one more reason to return - to your spouse. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by DmytriiD

[geowrian 22,335]

24 minutes ago, DmytriiD said:

But applying separately will at least eliminate the risk of being denied because both spouses are traveling to their own child. In this case one more reason to return - to your spouse. 

I'm certain they've seen people try this all the time. I'm not convinced it has any impact here.

 

Counterargument: if that was a deciding factor between qualifying for the visa and not qualifying for it, why not just issue the visa to one parent but not the other? There was no requirement to issue or refuse the visa to both applicants.

Edited August 11, 2020 by geowrian

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Just now, geowrian said:

I'm certain they've seen people try this all the time. I'm not convinced it has any impact here.

 

Counterargument: if that was a deciding factor between qualifying for the visa and not qualifying for it, why not just issue the visa to one parent but not the other? There was no requirement to issue or refuse the visa to both applicants.

Indeed - we have seen reports of families interviewing together where some have been issued visas and others haven’t.

[Unlockable 7,306]

10 hours ago, DmytriiD said:

But applying separately will at least eliminate the risk of being denied because both spouses are traveling to their own child. In this case one more reason to return - to your spouse. 

This not true. Denials come in all situations. There is no guaranteed method for a visitor visa approval. And as already stated, a visitor visa applicant is always assumed immigrant intent. It is the job of the applicant to prove otherwise 

 

You mentioned that you plan on petitioning for them when you become a citizen. This shows immigrant intent right there. 

 

Best they can do is reapply and hope for the best. 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

10 hours ago, DmytriiD said:

But applying separately will at least eliminate the risk of being denied because both spouses are traveling to their own child. In this case one more reason to return - to your spouse. 

Um... you do realize “applying separately” does not fool them, right? Spousal information is on the forms, application history is in the system.
Whoever gets the visa first, that will come up instantly on the check when the second spouse applies. If they feel you/your parents are actively trying to game the system when that happens, which seems an accurate assessment from what you’ve said, they may not only deny the second spouse to apply but revoke the visa of the first if it has been granted. Especially as the previous denial is on the record for both. In fact, even parent number one may not get a visa give the application history. (And what do they answer when they get asked why spouse is not applying with them this time? That they’re trying to game the system? Or lie about a reason, when they will certainly get caught out? That answer will also be on record for if/when second spouse applies.)

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Boiler 43,423]

If I was a CO I would be wondering why elderly (one is retired) are so keen on travelling halfway around the world in these Pandemic times.

 

Have them immigrate when you are able to sponsor them? Do they have no say? Have you any idea of the costs involved?

 

 

[DmytriiD 186]

8 hours ago, Unlockable said:

This not true. Denials come in all situations. There is no guaranteed method for a visitor visa approval. And as already stated, a visitor visa applicant is always assumed immigrant intent. It is the job of the applicant to prove otherwise 

 

You mentioned that you plan on petitioning for them when you become a citizen. This shows immigrant intent right there. 

 

Best they can do is reapply and hope for the best. 

I am saying we might have to do that, but we don't want to. Only if there is no other way for them to come visit me...
So, basically if they can't get b1/b2 to visit couple times a year then we left with no choice but to make them immigrants. We don't want to do it for above described reasons.

[DmytriiD 186]

8 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Um... you do realize “applying separately” does not fool them, right? Spousal information is on the forms, application history is in the system.
Whoever gets the visa first, that will come up instantly on the check when the second spouse applies. If they feel you/your parents are actively trying to game the system when that happens, which seems an accurate assessment from what you’ve said, they may not only deny the second spouse to apply but revoke the visa of the first if it has been granted. Especially as the previous denial is on the record for both. In fact, even parent number one may not get a visa give the application history. (And what do they answer when they get asked why spouse is not applying with them this time? That they’re trying to game the system? Or lie about a reason, when they will certainly get caught out? That answer will also be on record for if/when second spouse applies.)

 

No, the plan is to travel separately then. Even if second parent get denied, its better to at least have one being able to visit then none at all. And if they get visas both, it does not necessarily mean that they will be traveling together, so nobody is lying or trying to game here. We already said truth once and it hurts, I see a lot of people who actually lie and get visas and they do stay here illigaly, my question is why the system is so bad at identifying people who are lying and who are not. But anyway, the question is what recommendations you guys have to avoid moving them in the future. They dont want to move here, I dont want them to...all we need is a visitor visas.

[DmytriiD 186]

29 minutes ago, Boiler said:

If I was a CO I would be wondering why elderly (one is retired) are so keen on travelling halfway around the world in these Pandemic times.

 

Have them immigrate when you are able to sponsor them? Do they have no say? Have you any idea of the costs involved?

 

 

Reason of travel is simple - visit their son. I don't see how pandemic or not pandemic matters.

I have no idea on costs involved, but that is the route I am trying to avoid as well as them. They strongly want to live in Ukraine for above described reasons. But just US Consulate in Kiev might leave no other choice to us. I am here to find an advise and solution.
For some reason Embassy in Ukraine gives visas to people who is clearly lying which led to huge amount of people stay on b1/b2 and now denial rate in Ukraine is 42% in 2019 for visitor visas. So basically people are like my parents are penalized for those who broke US Immigration Law (but those who did are not punished, because they anyway get their citizenship through fake marriages, etc...this hurts so much I can't even describe, I thought once you broke US Immigration Law once you are banned till the end of life to get any Immigration benefits...in my opinion that would be fair and stop those who are doing so.)

[Boiler 43,423]

Sounds like you answered your own question.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

1 hour ago, DmytriiD said:

So basically people are like my parents are penalized for those who broke US Immigration Law (

I totally agree. It sucks, and that’s why I get annoyed with most of those AOS posts who clearly had intent or just overstayed and marry a citizen to fix it all up. Anyway - unfortunately it looks like you are the ones to be visiting your parents or maybe, if you are not too far from Canada or Mexico, an annual vacation all together in one of those may be a second best option.

[Boiler 43,423]

I know Canada suggests it is immigrant friendly not sure the reality is quite the same.

[SalishSea 16,765]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:28 PM, DmytriiD said:

I am saying we might have to do that, but we don't want to. Only if there is no other way for them to come visit me...
So, basically if they can't get b1/b2 to visit couple times a year then we left with no choice but to make them immigrants. We don't want to do it for above described reasons.

You can always go visit them.