Wait for citizenship or redo GC?

[Elrona 101]

I have had my GC since november 2018, husband is USC. We are in a spot right now (partially due to COVID situation) where we are thinking of what would be the better course of action for the next couple of years. Just hoping that your guys thoughts and experience can help us to think about something we didn't realize ourselves. 

 

Quick background info. Long term plan is to settle down in US but for starting our family we have always wanted to move to Estonia (where I'm from) and live there for about 3-5 years. Its just way better social system and of course, support from my family. But we are kinda stuck deciding what would be a better course of action.

 

Option A) Move back asap, start a family there, stay probably for around 5 years and then move back to US. The biggest negative is going through the whole GC process again and with (hopefully) 1-3 kids in tow, the affidavit of support could be a bit more struggle (especially if laws and regulations are made even stricter). 

 

Option B) Stay in USA until I receive my citizenship, move directly after that. Positive is that it will be way way easier to move back to US (as our long term plan is to stay in US anyway). I think, as much as I looked, I can start my naturalization after three years, so november 2021 but its still going to take at least a year, so it would push back our wish to start family quite a bit. And if it should be that COVID is going to be rampaging the world for another 1-2 years, it would in some ways make more sense to be in Estonia.

 

It might be that I'm just not seeing it clearly due to baby fever ( ) so I would be very glad if you could share your thoughts, what seems in long term the best idea to go with or what would you do.

 

[Crazy Cat 39,177]

I like option B considering the long term.  Once you are a US citizen, you can travel back and forth to the US without any restrictions.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Lucky Cat

[Loren Y 2,731]

I am considering the same thing, not for starting a family, but for leaving the US. My wife just got her conditional 2 year green card, and we are about 3-4 years from her getting citizenship. As temping as it is to blow town, and maybe come back later, I am going to buckle down and suffer the next 3 years until she gets citizenship. With green card in hand, I think we are too far along to bail out on the process now, and I also have worries that say in 4-5 years from now like you mentioned, the ability to immigrate may not be around anymore, and then you end up stuck. Your choice, but might be better to wait for citizenship.

[Henry357 70]

55 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

I am considering the same thing, not for starting a family, but for leaving the US. My wife just got her conditional 2 year green card, and we are about 3-4 years from her getting citizenship. As temping as it is to blow town, and maybe come back later, I am going to buckle down and suffer the next 3 years until she gets citizenship. With green card in hand, I think we are too far along to bail out on the process now, and I also have worries that say in 4-5 years from now like you mentioned, the ability to immigrate may not be around anymore, and then you end up stuck. Your choice, but might be better to wait for citizenship.

Are you not worried about tax implications

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

2 hours ago, Elrona said:

I have had my GC since november 2018, husband is USC. We are in a spot right now (partially due to COVID situation) where we are thinking of what would be the better course of action for the next couple of years. Just hoping that your guys thoughts and experience can help us to think about something we didn't realize ourselves. 

 

Quick background info. Long term plan is to settle down in US but for starting our family we have always wanted to move to Estonia (where I'm from) and live there for about 3-5 years. Its just way better social system and of course, support from my family. But we are kinda stuck deciding what would be a better course of action.

 

Option A) Move back asap, start a family there, stay probably for around 5 years and then move back to US. The biggest negative is going through the whole GC process again and with (hopefully) 1-3 kids in tow, the affidavit of support could be a bit more struggle (especially if laws and regulations are made even stricter). 

 

Option B) Stay in USA until I receive my citizenship, move directly after that. Positive is that it will be way way easier to move back to US (as our long term plan is to stay in US anyway). I think, as much as I looked, I can start my naturalization after three years, so november 2021 but its still going to take at least a year, so it would push back our wish to start family quite a bit. And if it should be that COVID is going to be rampaging the world for another 1-2 years, it would in some ways make more sense to be in Estonia.

 

It might be that I'm just not seeing it clearly due to baby fever ( ) so I would be very glad if you could share your thoughts, what seems in long term the best idea to go with or what would you do.

 

Option C!! Depending on the timing involved - 5 years would be pushing it to the maximum - you might rather consider the middle ground of getting re-entry permits (you can do for a maximum of 5 years, two 2 years and the third is max one year, though a 4 year plan is probably “safer” for this). That way you can move to Estonia in the meanwhile, have the kids there (presumably your usc husband can pass citizenship to them so don’t forget to CRBA) and then you don’t have to go through the green card application process again when you return. You will have to go back to the US to reapply for the re-entry permit when you renew, though I imagine you would be visiting at least anyway during that time? Seems to me this is the best option, you don’t need to wait for citizenship and you keep your green card...

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Loren Y 2,731]

8 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Option C!! Depending on the timing involved - 5 years would be pushing it to the maximum - you might rather consider the middle ground of getting re-entry permits (you can do for a maximum of 5 years, two 2 years and the third is max one year, though a 4 year plan is probably “safer” for this). That way you can move to Estonia in the meanwhile, have the kids there (presumably your usc husband can pass citizenship to them so don’t forget to CRBA) and then you don’t have to go through the green card application process again when you return. You will have to go back to the US to reapply for the re-entry permit when you renew, though I imagine you would be visiting at least anyway during that time? Seems to me this is the best option, you don’t need to wait for citizenship and you keep your green card...

 

It could work, getting approved for like 3 reentry permits in a row would be kinda a long shot. They would definitely say you are spending more time out of the US than in the US. You wouldn't be earning days towards citizenship either, not a big deal really, you can make up the days when you come back. And I believe re-entry permits take about 3 months to process, so you can't just come back for a few weeks and get a new reentry permit in that time frame. Maybe I'm wrong with this, but I checked on it a few months ago as my wife's son is planning on coming here in about 2 years, get his green card, then apply for a re-entry permit so he can go to his home country for higher education for a few years, come back for a while, then go back to complete his degree on another re-entry permit if he can't find a decent school here to attend. I guess if you can afford to live here for 3 months at a time for reentry permits, you are good, and what happens if after the first one they decided to not approve the second one, then you are in the same boat and lost another 2 years towards citizenship. Just too many chances for things to go south in this plan, but it could work.

[Loren Y 2,731]

52 minutes ago, Henry357 said:

Are you not worried about tax implications

Not really. You have to make a pretty good amount before you are seriously taxed on foreign income. I will still file taxes, and probably maintain a bank account and a residential address to maintain ties to the US. It's still work in progress, but I've been researching it quite a bit. They could be changes in the next few years that throw a wrench into the plans, but I'm a cross that bridge when I come to it type of person.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Just now, Loren Y said:

It could work, getting approved for like 3 reentry permits in a row would be kinda a long shot. They would definitely say you are spending more time out of the US than in the US. You wouldn't be earning days towards citizenship either, not a big deal really, you can make up the days when you come back. And I believe re-entry permits take about 3 months to process, so you can't just come back for a few weeks and get a new reentry permit in that time frame. Maybe I'm wrong with this, but I checked on it a few months ago as my wife's son is planning on coming here in about 2 years, get his green card, then apply for a re-entry permit so he can go to his home country for higher education for a few years, come back for a while, then go back to complete his degree on another re-entry permit if he can't find a decent school here to attend. I guess if you can afford to live here for 3 months at a time for reentry permits, you are good, and what happens if after the first one they decided to not approve the second one, then you are in the same boat and lost another 2 years towards citizenship. Just too many chances for things to go south in this plan, but it could work.

No it’s not a “long shot“, the 5-year maximum is specifically provided for in the application. Of course you are spending more time outside than in the US, that’s the whole reason why you need a re-entry permit in the first place!
And yes it interrupts the presence/residence requirements for naturalization but that’s irrelevant as you’d have to start again with a new green card anyway,

 

Also you do not need to be in the US all the way to approval, just for application and biometrics. You can leave after that and get the permit sent to your closest consulate. Normally (maybe different when uscis reopens because of backlog) bio is usually 3-4 weeks after filing. 

some extracts from the i131 instructions:https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/i-131instr.pdf?download=1

1. Reentry Permit
a. If you are in the United States as a lawful permanent resident or conditional permanent resident, you may apply for a Reentry Permit. You must be physically present in the United States when you file the Reentry Permit application and complete the biometrics services requirement. ...
NOTE: A Reentry Permit may be sent to a U.S. Embassy, U.S. Consulate, or DHS office abroad for you to pick up, if you make such a request when you file your application.
With the exception of having to obtain a returning resident visa abroad, a Reentry Permit does not exempt you from compliance with any of the requirements of U.S. immigration laws. If you are in possession of a valid, unexpired Reentry Permit, you will not be deemed to have abandoned your status as a lawful permanent resident or conditional permanent resident based solely on the duration of your absences from the United States while the permit is valid.
...
b. Validity of Reentry Permit
(1) Generally, a Reentry Permit issued to a lawful permanent resident is valid for 2 years from the date of issuance. .... However, if you have been outside the United States for more than 4 of the last 5 years since becoming a lawful permanent resident, the permit will be limited to 1 year, 

if OP is still a conditional resident then the following needs to be taken into account though: A Reentry Permit issued to a conditional permanent resident is valid for 2 years from the date of issuance, or to the date the conditional permanent resident must apply for removal of the conditions on his or her status, whichever date comes first.

 

the user-friendly version of the guide is here https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/B5en.pdf

 

I’ve only ever heard of one instance of someone being refused a re-entry permit, and that was a complicated case related to an employment-based green card and the person wanting to use the permit to take up employment with a different employer abroad. Certainly @Loren Yas far as your stepson is concerned, I’ve seen a number of people in the same situation successfully complete an entire degree abroad while on initial plus renewed re-entry permits.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Just now, Loren Y said:

Not really. You have to make a pretty good amount before you are seriously taxed on foreign income. I will still file taxes, and probably maintain a bank account and a residential address to maintain ties to the US. It's still work in progress, but I've been researching it quite a bit. They could be changes in the next few years that throw a wrench into the plans, but I'm a cross that bridge when I come to it type of person.

Agree. And it’s not just that you have to earn somewhere inti the six figures, but also double tax treaties usually mean you don’t have to pay any or much tax even on income above the foreign income exemption. For the vast majority of green card holders or USCs abroad it’s just the admin hassle of filing that’s involved, not extra tax. 

[Henry357 70]

2 hours ago, Elrona said:

I have had my GC since november 2018, husband is USC. We are in a spot right now (partially due to COVID situation) where we are thinking of what would be the better course of action for the next couple of years. Just hoping that your guys thoughts and experience can help us to think about something we didn't realize ourselves. 

 

Quick background info. Long term plan is to settle down in US but for starting our family we have always wanted to move to Estonia (where I'm from) and live there for about 3-5 years. Its just way better social system and of course, support from my family. But we are kinda stuck deciding what would be a better course of action.

 

Option A) Move back asap, start a family there, stay probably for around 5 years and then move back to US. The biggest negative is going through the whole GC process again and with (hopefully) 1-3 kids in tow, the affidavit of support could be a bit more struggle (especially if laws and regulations are made even stricter). 

 

Option B) Stay in USA until I receive my citizenship, move directly after that. Positive is that it will be way way easier to move back to US (as our long term plan is to stay in US anyway). I think, as much as I looked, I can start my naturalization after three years, so november 2021 but its still going to take at least a year, so it would push back our wish to start family quite a bit. And if it should be that COVID is going to be rampaging the world for another 1-2 years, it would in some ways make more sense to be in Estonia.

 

It might be that I'm just not seeing it clearly due to baby fever ( ) so I would be very glad if you could share your thoughts, what seems in long term the best idea to go with or what would you do.

 

Consider the tax implications of holding a greencard.  Estonia has lower taxes. 

[Loren Y 2,731]

2 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

No it’s not a “long shot“, the 5-year maximum is specifically provided for in the application. Of course you are spending more time outside than in the US, that’s the whole reason why you need a re-entry permit in the first place!
And yes it interrupts the presence/residence requirements for naturalization but that’s irrelevant as you’d have to start again with a new green card anyway,

 

Also you do not need to be in the US all the way to approval, just for application and biometrics. You can leave after that and get the permit sent to your closest consulate. Normally (maybe different when uscis reopens because of backlog) bio is usually 3-4 weeks after filing. 

some extracts from the i131 instructions:https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/i-131instr.pdf?download=1

1. Reentry Permit
a. If you are in the United States as a lawful permanent resident or conditional permanent resident, you may apply for a Reentry Permit. You must be physically present in the United States when you file the Reentry Permit application and complete the biometrics services requirement. ...
NOTE: A Reentry Permit may be sent to a U.S. Embassy, U.S. Consulate, or DHS office abroad for you to pick up, if you make such a request when you file your application.
With the exception of having to obtain a returning resident visa abroad, a Reentry Permit does not exempt you from compliance with any of the requirements of U.S. immigration laws. If you are in possession of a valid, unexpired Reentry Permit, you will not be deemed to have abandoned your status as a lawful permanent resident or conditional permanent resident based solely on the duration of your absences from the United States while the permit is valid.
...
b. Validity of Reentry Permit
(1) Generally, a Reentry Permit issued to a lawful permanent resident is valid for 2 years from the date of issuance. .... However, if you have been outside the United States for more than 4 of the last 5 years since becoming a lawful permanent resident, the permit will be limited to 1 year, 

if OP is still a conditional resident then the following needs to be taken into account though: A Reentry Permit issued to a conditional permanent resident is valid for 2 years from the date of issuance, or to the date the conditional permanent resident must apply for removal of the conditions on his or her status, whichever date comes first.

 

the user-friendly version of the guide is here https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/B5en.pdf

 

I’ve only ever heard of one instance of someone being refused a re-entry permit, and that was a complicated case related to an employment-based green card and the person wanting to use the permit to take up employment with a different employer abroad. Certainly @Loren Yas far as your stepson is concerned, I’ve seen a number of people in the same situation successfully complete an entire degree abroad while on initial plus renewed re-entry permits.

Ok, didn't know you could wait for the approval outside the US, and maybe they don't mind you taking re-entry permits to the maximum. This info helps me out to, because that's my stepsons plan to get a whole degree on re-entry permits. Then other than a month every 2 years in the US to apply and get biometrics, it could work and not be as expensive as I thought if you had to spend the whole 3 months inside the US. But a month away from your family has to be considered also, but OP said she would have family support, so should be good in that aspect.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

5 minutes ago, Henry357 said:

Consider the tax implications of holding a greencard.  Estonia has lower taxes. 

Maybe I’m assuming too much but I’d guess, planning  on 3 children in 5 years, mom is not planning on working, or working much   so tax implications not too relevant, especially given the foreign income exemption 

Edited May 29, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

3 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

Ok, didn't know you could wait for the approval outside the US, and maybe they don't mind you taking re-entry permits to the maximum. This info helps me out to, because that's my stepsons plan to get a whole degree on re-entry permits. Then other than a month every 2 years in the US to apply and get biometrics, it could work and not be as expensive as I thought if you had to spend the whole 3 months inside the US. But a month away from your family has to be considered also, but OP said she would have family support, so should be good in that aspect.

Or that month could be family holiday back in the US 🤷‍♀️  

 

(My bigger issue with your stepson’s plan would be the desirability of a US vs foreign degree for a new graduate in the job market.)

Edited May 29, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Loren Y 2,731]

8 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Or that month could be family holiday back in the US 🤷‍♀️  

 

(My bigger issue with your stepson’s plan would be the desirability of a US vs foreign degree for a new graduate in the job market.)

True, that's why I was I was thinking he could get a 2 year degree to start and save money initially, then earn his batchlors here in the US to kinda help with job placement. It's still all talk and a rough plan now, but I'm always open to learning more. I'll take every edge I can get.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

4 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

True, that's why I was I was thinking he could get a 2 year degree to start and save money initially, then earn his batchlors here in the US to kinda help with job placement. It's still all talk and a rough plan now, but I'm always open to learning more. I'll take every edge I can get.

Well... assuming you are still here and he can qualify for state residency on that basis, a community college to state public might be a better approach, and if instate likely to be even lower cost for the associates than wherever home country is. This is thread drift so PM if you want to discuss further, but I have a freshman kid and while she is at a 4-year, this is an increasingly popular option for cost saving, and there is often guaranteed transfer to publics for instate residents.