Judge Blocks Trump Administration From Adding Citizenship Question To The Census

[refugee 169]

9 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

I think he is actually saying both arguments are sacks of Doo, biased reporting in both cases support a negative connotation of the opposing view.

The numbers are the numbers, cite your own.

 

20 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

They also flood ER's use social services. Pay little or no income tax and send a lot of their wages back to other countries 

 

Reports: Illegal immigrants receiving Medicaid costs taxpayers $18.5 billion annually

 

https://www.watchdog.org/national/reports-illegal-immigrants-receiving-medicaid-costs-taxpayers-billion-annually/article_6a9860a6-d0bd-11e8-92ed-5bca8b2d3b38.html

This report cited in data from the anti immigrant group cis. Even then it isays nothing about the net effect on our economy for undocumented workers, and nothing about those with residence or Visas.

Edited January 17, 2019 by refugee

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

7 minutes ago, abum said:

up to you, your comment there clearly showed the type of fallacy you used. 

a fallacy and an attack are not the same thing 

[Dashinka 23,243]

30 minutes ago, refugee said:

The poster claimed non citizens didn't pay taxes. The subject is non citizens being apart of the census. Even then the net drain of undocumented workers is overstated in many circles and my link speaks to that.

Or understated in many circles.  What is the point?

[abum 324]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

a fallacy and an attack are not the same thing 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

here you go.

 

Quote

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.^[2] The terms ad mulierem^[3] and ad feminam^[4] have been used specifically when the person receiving the criticism is female.

However, its original meaning was an argument "calculated to appeal to the person addressed more than to impartial reason".^[5]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is categorized among informal fallacies,^[6][7][8] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance.

Also from Merriam Webster

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad hominem

 

Quote

Examples of ad hominem in a Sentence

Recent Examples on the Web: Adverb

Discussion in online forums and social media often descends into ad hominem attacks.— WSJ, "Voices From a Divided America," 29 Oct. 2018Do not applaud anyone who engages in name-calling or ad hominem attacks.— Dan Rodricks, baltimoresun.com, "Rodricks: 10 ways to be a great American citizen for the Fourth of July," 3 July 2018

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by abum

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

15 minutes ago, refugee said:

The numbers are the numbers, cite your own.

 

This report cited in data from the anti immigrant group cis. Even then it isays nothing about the net effect on our economy for undocumented workers, and nothing about those with residence or Visas.

Live in your world of puppies and rainbows, I could not care less. You spout a liberally biased report and then are countered with a conservative biased report and claim foul because of the bias that does not conform tou your bias. At least you are transparent.

[yuna628 9,528]

I find this hyperbole about immigrants (non citizens) not paying taxes rather disturbing, and should be found to be a crazy accusation towards anyone on this forum that is here legally or have spouses that are here legally - paying their taxes just like everyone else. Any immigrant that I know pays their taxes and we certainly do. You can argue about the merits of illegal immigrants not paying taxes all you want, but for goodness sake, stop lumping everyone else into the mix.

There are citizens that don't pay their taxes ya know.

 

As far as the census goes, which this topic is supposed to be about - either fill out the questions or don't at your own risk. I never quite understood the rampant paranoia about the census in the evangelical community, and from a libertarian perspective I find many of the questions completely not needed, but the census is written into our Constitution. Don't like it? Change it, and good luck with that.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

Not so sure it's hyperbole as much as it is trying to group legal non-citizens with illegally entered non citizens, they are 2 different entities but conveniently grouped to blur the distinction

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I don’t get the paranoia so many people have about the Census. It has a lot to do with where your tax dollars get spent. Just answer how many people live in your house and skip the rest of it bothers you. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I find this hyperbole about immigrants (non citizens) not paying taxes rather disturbing, and should be found to be a crazy accusation towards anyone on this forum that is here legally or have spouses that are here legally - paying their taxes just like everyone else. Any immigrant that I know pays their taxes and we certainly do. You can argue about the merits of illegal immigrants not paying taxes all you want, but for goodness sake, stop lumping everyone else into the mix.

There are citizens that don't pay their taxes ya know.

 

As far as the census goes, which this topic is supposed to be about - either fill out the questions or don't at your own risk. I never quite understood the rampant paranoia about the census in the evangelical community, and from a libertarian perspective I find many of the questions completely not needed, but the census is written into our Constitution. Don't like it? Change it, and good luck with that.

we aint talking bout non citizens. we are talking bout illegal criminals

17 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

I don’t get the paranoia so many people have about the Census. It has a lot to do with where your tax dollars get spent. Just answer how many people live in your house and skip the rest of it bothers you. 

and that is exactly what we have said we are doing ??? Your point ?

[refugee 169]

1 hour ago, Randyandyuni said:

Live in your world of puppies and rainbows, I could not care less. You spout a liberally biased report and then are countered with a conservative biased report and claim foul because of the bias that does not conform tou your bias. At least you are transparent.

There is no need to attack my world view. If you have real data, bring it.  

[abum 324]

1 minute ago, refugee said:

There is no need to attack my world view. If you have real data, bring it.  

right after i shared the definition of Ad Hominem 😂 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

1 hour ago, Randyandyuni said:

Not so sure it's hyperbole as much as it is trying to group legal non-citizens with illegally entered non citizens, they are 2 different entities but conveniently grouped to blur the distinction

The majority of the studies I see either based on crime, finances, or taxes mixes both groups together in order to make Illegals look better on paper. Usually when I point this out to people they go quiet on me. 

[refugee 169]

28 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

we aint talking bout non citizens. we are talking bout illegal criminals

No, in response to my statement about the contributions of "non Citizens" another poster said they didn't pay taxes. That is not true.

 

28 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

and that is exactly what we have said we are doing ??? Your point ?

You should count to ten before posting

Just now, Cyberfx1024 said:

The majority of the studies I see either based on crime, finances, or taxes mixes both groups together in order to make Illegals look better on paper. Usually when I point this out to people they go quiet on me. 

And the data I cited broke it out.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

2 minutes ago, refugee said:

There is no need to attack my world view. If you have real data, bring it.  

I am not attacking your world view in any way shape or form, you claim benefits of non citizens from a liberal sources, I see you knock counter opinions from conservative sources to the contrary, my point was you can't live on an extreme while declaring a different extreme cannot be trusted because it's extreme.

 

If you can't see the lunacy in that don't accuse me of attacking your world view

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

13 minutes ago, abum said:

right after i shared the definition of Ad Hominem 😂 

I discount most of what you day because of your contentious nature, go find some more big words to impress everyone with your intellectualism