Working without pay during shutdown, more TSA agents are calling in sick

[jg121783 3,907]

11 minutes ago, refugee said:

Sure, that is your theory. There is no proof the wall will be effective in reducing traffic, cost effective to maintain or give us an ROI. 

 

Just because my theory is that it will not be effective or cost effective does not make me a beliver in open borders. 

 

 

 

Illegal immigration costs us about $200 billion a year. It is certainly debatable the degree of impact the wall will have on illegal immigration. In my opinion it is not debatable that it will have some impact. Even if the wall only has a 5% (I'm sure it will be far greater) impact that is $5 billion saved in 6 months. In other words even if the wall only has a minimal impact it would pay for its self in about 6 months and start saving us money after that. To me it's a no brainer.

[refugee 169]

9 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Illegal immigration costs us about $200 billion a year. It is certainly debatable the degree of impact the wall will have on illegal immigration. In my opinion it is not debatable that it will have some impact. Even if the wall only has a 5% (I'm sure it will be far greater) impact that is $5 billion saved in 6 months. In other words even if the wall only has a minimal impact it would pay for its self in about 6 months and start saving us money after that. To me it's a no brainer.

It is a pipe dream if one thinks they are going to go from sea to sea for 5 billion, let alone staff, maintain and make it smart. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by refugee

[jg121783 3,907]

6 minutes ago, refugee said:

It is a pipe dream if one thinks they are going to go from sea to sea for 5 billion, let alone staff, maintain and make it smart. 

Even if its only a section of the border 5% doesn't seem unrealistic. The wall only needs to cover areas with no natural barriers. I actually read about a proposal to build the wall with a new form of concrete made with hemp. That would give us more bang for the buck. I thought it was an interesting concept.

Edited January 6, 2019 by jg121783

[refugee 169]

21 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Even if its only a section of the border 5% doesn't seem unrealistic. The wall only needs to cover areas with no natural barriers. I actually read about a proposal to build the wall with a new form of concrete made with hemp. That would give us more bang for the buck. I thought it was an interesting concept.

You would be better off investing in drones and monitoring technology, but that is up for debate.

 

The point is beacuse we disagree on how we should tactically proceed on dealing with the southern border, it does not make me an advocate for open borders.

Edited January 6, 2019 by refugee

[Dashinka 23,251]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Sure, that is your theory. There is no proof the wall will be effective in reducing traffic, cost effective to maintain or give us an ROI. 

 

Just because my theory is that it will not be effective or cost effective does not make me a beliver in open borders. 

 

 

 

Actually, there is quite a bit of proof that walls/barriers work to funnel folks to actual entry points.  Israel, Hungary, a lot of communities in Arizona, many high profile folks, etc. all use walls to direct folks to a specific entry point.  Do we need more proof?  Sure, folks will say people will dig tunnels, but it is much easier to police that activity.  As to visa overstays, I am all for turning ICE loose on those folks as well.

[Dashinka 23,251]

17 minutes ago, refugee said:

You would be better off investing in drones and monitoring technology, but that is up for debate.

 

The point is beacuse we disagree on how we should tactically proceed on dealing with the southern border, it does not make me an advocate for open borders.

For us to disagree about a wall is one thing, but apparently the boots on the ground that actually have to do the work favor it.  I for one think these folks and their opinions should matter in this debate.

 

While there were experts who would say that walls don't work, "I promise you that if you interview Border Patrol agents, they will tell you that walls work," Judd said. "Anywhere that you look where we have built walls, they have worked." 

 

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/010319_bp_union_wall/bp-union-including-tucson-agent-pushes-border-wall-trump-meeting-as-federal-shutdown-continues/

 

 

[refugee 169]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

For us to disagree about a wall is one thing, but apparently the boots on the ground that actually have to do the work favor it.  I for one think these folks and their opinions should matter in this debate.

 

While there were experts who would say that walls don't work, "I promise you that if you interview Border Patrol agents, they will tell you that walls work," Judd said. "Anywhere that you look where we have built walls, they have worked." 

 

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/010319_bp_union_wall/bp-union-including-tucson-agent-pushes-border-wall-trump-meeting-as-federal-shutdown-continues/

 

 

I wouldn't refer to them as boots on the ground, you seem to be buying into the entire invasion southern border as  a war zone narrative.

That's fine that the resources close to the issue have a perspective. I am sure troops in Iraq want more for their job, along with other government staff want things to find their job.  

It does not mean that it is the best thing for the country. Congress sets the budget.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

2 hours ago, refugee said:

Sure, that is your theory. There is no proof the wall will be effective in reducing traffic, cost effective to maintain or give us an ROI. 

 

Just because my theory is that it will not be effective or cost effective does not make me a beliver in open borders. 

 

 

 

I guess all those border patrol agents asking for it and endorsing it, dont have your experience and insight 

[refugee 169]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Actually, there is quite a bit of proof that walls/barriers work to funnel folks to actual entry points.  Israel, Hungary, a lot of communities in Arizona, many high profile folks, etc. all use walls to direct folks to a specific entry point.  Do we need more proof?  Sure, folks will say people will dig tunnels, but it is much easier to police that activity.  As to visa overstays, I am all for turning ICE loose on those folks as well.

Israels has had tunnels, refugees are not headed to Hungary, I doubt that they have detered any refugees from getting to Europe. None if these solutions are 2000 miles long.

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I guess all those border patrol agents asking for it and endorsing it, dont have your experience and insight 

Or yours for that matter.

[Dashinka 23,251]

11 minutes ago, refugee said:

 

I wouldn't refer to them as boots on the ground, you seem to be buying into the entire invasion southern border as  a war zone narrative.

That's fine that the resources close to the issue have a perspective. I am sure troops in Iraq want more for their job, along with other government staff want things to find their job.  

It does not mean that it is the best thing for the country. Congress sets the budget.

You don’t think the opinion of the CBP on the front line matters?  I suppose you think the politicians in Washington know better.  Yes, Congress sets the budget, but they should leave the management of that money to the folks that know what they are doing.

 

As was discussed earlier in another thread, when a mass of folks march toward another country under their own flag, it looks a lot like an invasion.

[jg121783 3,907]

2 hours ago, refugee said:

You would be better off investing in drones and monitoring technology, but that is up for debate.

 

The point is beacuse we disagree on how we should tactically proceed on dealing with the southern border, it does not make me an advocate for open borders.

I would use drones in combination with a wall. Drones are only good for spotting and alerting border patrol to the presence of illegals. They do nothing to physically stop or slow down illegals from crossing the border. With no physical barrier by the time border patrol is able to respond to an alert from a drone the illegals could be long gone.

 

10 minutes ago, refugee said:

 

I wouldn't refer to them as boots on the ground, you seem to be buying into the entire invasion southern border as  a war zone narrative.

That's fine that the resources close to the issue have a perspective. I am sure troops in Iraq want more for their job, along with other government staff want things to find their job.  

It does not mean that it is the best thing for the country. Congress sets the budget.

I thought we already covered this in a previous thread where someone referred to them (rightfully so) as invaders because they were waving Honduran flags. I recall you responding by saying they couldn't afford flags to which I replied with pictures of them waving Honduran flags. I don't recall you posting anything in rebuttal on that thread.

[refugee 169]

2 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I would use drones in combination with a wall. Drones are only good for spotting and alerting border patrol to the presence of illegals. They do nothing to physically stop or slow down illegals from crossing the border. With no physical barrier by the time border patrol is able to respond to an alert from a drone the illegals could be long gone.

 

I thought we already covered this in a previous thread where someone referred to them (rightfully so) as invaders because they were waving Honduran flags. I recall you responding by saying they couldn't afford flags to which I replied with pictures of them waving Honduran flags. I don't recall you posting anything in rebuttal on that thread.

So ever flag waver is an invader.

That would make the Olympics WW3

[Dashinka 23,251]

11 minutes ago, refugee said:

Israels has had tunnels, refugees are not headed to Hungary, I doubt that they have detered any refugees from getting to Europe. None if these solutions are 2000 miles long.

Or yours for that matter

 

2000 miles or 20 miles, the border still needs to be secured before someone crosses it illegally.

[Dashinka 23,251]

1 minute ago, refugee said:

So ever flag waver is an invader.

That would make the Olympics WW3

I didn’t know storming a border was an Olympic sport.

[refugee 169]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I didn’t know storming a border was an Olympic sport.

Evidently Honduras is it to win it.