N400 with 2 DUIs

[Messedupagain 0]

A permanent resident with 2 DUIs in california. Both DUIs are misdemeanors. 1st one occured in 2013 and 2nd one happened in 2015. I am on probation for the 2nd one which ends in 2019. When can i apply for citizenship? Can I apply in 2019 after my probation expires since it will have been 4 years since conviction (The statutory period to show GMC is 3 years is you are married to a citizen) OR do i need to wait till 2022 which is 3 years after my probation ends? I am getting missed messages even from immigration attorneys on this one. I consulted with 2 immigration attorneys. 1st immigration attorney said you can apply as soon as your probation ends as long as it has been 3 years since conviction. The other one says its 3 years after your probation ends. I am confused because everyone says consult with an immigration attorney and I did just that. However, they both have different answers. 

 

Also, I want to know if 2 DUIs make me deportable or inadmissible. Both attorneys said they don't make me deportable/inadmissible but USCIS can decide i am inadmissible due to alcoholism aka habitual drunkard. What steps can i take to prove I am not a drunkard? 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Messedupagain

[Crazy Cat 39,520]

 

7 minutes ago, Messedupagain said:

What steps can i take to prove I am not a drunkard?

Wow!  You asked some very good questions.  Normally, I would say to consider something like "AA"......but that could be a double edged sword......you are in a tough position.....you might need 5 years of "good moral character" and a good attorney to get by this.......just my 2 cents.....

[geowrian 22,336]

The N-400 cannot be approved while still on a probation, as you have been informed already.

 

The longer it's been since any conviction, the better. The GMC character requirement is not strictly limited to the past x years, just that there is more weight placed on the relevant statutory period.

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartF-Chapter2.html

"B. Conduct Outside of the Statutory Period

 

USCIS is not limited to reviewing the applicant's conduct only during the applicable GMC period. An applicant’s conduct prior to the GMC period may affect the applicant’s ability to establish GMC if the applicant’s present conduct does not reflect a reformation of character or the earlier conduct is relevant to the applicant’s present moral character. ^[6]

 

In general, an officer must consider the totality of the circumstances and weigh all factors, favorable and unfavorable, when considering reformation of character in conjunction with GMC within the relevant period. ^[7] The following factors may be relevant in assessing an applicant’s current moral character and reformation of character:"

 

A DUI in itself is not a cause for deportation or a denial of an N-400. However, the specific circumstances of the DUIs can be deemed to be a violation of GMC (i.e. if children were involved, if there were injuries to others, if any other crimes or citations were also involved, etc.).

You can present evidence that you have reformed to help your case for a GMC. If you attended AA or similar, that can help. If you've been through counseling, that can help.

[Messedupagain 0]

1 minute ago, geowrian said:

The N-400 cannot be approved while still on a probation, as you have been informed already.

 

The longer it's been since any conviction, the better. The GMC character requirement is not strictly limited to the past x years, just that there is more weight placed on the relevant statutory period.

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartF-Chapter2.html

"B. Conduct Outside of the Statutory Period

 

USCIS is not limited to reviewing the applicant's conduct only during the applicable GMC period. An applicant’s conduct prior to the GMC period may affect the applicant’s ability to establish GMC if the applicant’s present conduct does not reflect a reformation of character or the earlier conduct is relevant to the applicant’s present moral character. ^[6]

 

In general, an officer must consider the totality of the circumstances and weigh all factors, favorable and unfavorable, when considering reformation of character in conjunction with GMC within the relevant period. ^[7] The following factors may be relevant in assessing an applicant’s current moral character and reformation of character:"

 

A DUI in itself is not a cause for deportation or a denial of an N-400. However, the specific circumstances of the DUIs can be deemed to be a violation of GMC (i.e. if children were involved, if there were injuries to others, if any other crimes or citations were also involved, etc.).

You can present evidence that you have reformed to help your case for a GMC. If you attended AA or similar, that can help. If you've been through counseling, that can help.

Thanks for this information. I have attended individual therapy at a hospital for 9 months and they have written a letter for me stating how I have made progress and that I have been sober for months. The thing is, this letter can indicate that I have reformed but at the same time it can also mean that it confirms that I have a problem with alcohol (Which I don't, coz I have been sober for almost 2 years now).

 

But my im still looking for guidance on my original question still. I understand they can look beyond the statutory period, but,  what is the minimum? 3 years since conviction OR 3 years since end of probation. As I mentioned earlier, the two lawyers had two different answers and that is really confusing me now. 

[geowrian 22,336]

17 minutes ago, Messedupagain said:

But my im still looking for guidance on my original question still. I understand they can look beyond the statutory period, but,  what is the minimum? 3 years since conviction OR 3 years since end of probation. As I mentioned earlier, the two lawyers had two different answers and that is really confusing me now. 

It's hard to say as it is a judgement call by the IO. There is no minimum or maximum period they can look at, but the longer it's been the better.

The statuary period that they look closest at is from the point of filing (i.e. 3 years from filing if filing under the 3 year rule). So if you file 3+ years after the conviction, it should have lesser impact, but nothing is guaranteed as to the decision they will make.

[Diane and Chris 651]

19 hours ago, Messedupagain said:

What steps can i take to prove I am not a drunkard? 

 

Quit drinking and stop getting DUIs. You are not only risking harm to yourself, but to many others as well. If you can’t stop on your own, get some help. You need to show good moral character for citizenship. Best wishes to you. 

[Messedupagain 0]

6 minutes ago, Diane and Chris said:

Quit drinking and stop getting DUIs. You are not only risking harm to yourself, but to many others as well. If you can’t stop on your own, get some help. You need to show good moral character for citizenship. Best wishes to you. 

I understand that but what steps an i take that can show documentary evidence that i am not a drunkard. I partied in my 20s and made some bad choices and ended up getting these. I have changed my ways and have been sober close to 2 years now but simply saying this wont be enough for USCIS. I need to start building strong documented evidence showing that I am not alcoholic/drunkard so thats why I am asking this questions. Of Course I understand that its risky for everyone including myself and I have changed my ways

[Going through 5,668]

With one DUI, I would normally suggest waiting at least a year after probation ends.

With two DUIs, I would suggest waiting a few years after probation ends.

 

Either way, it's going to come down to the IO you get, as there's a lot of wiggle room for them with your charges especially since A) you are a repeat offender, B) both offenses occurred within the past 5 years (ie. close succession), and C) you no longer fall under the "petty offense" exception due to having more than 1 misdemeanor in your history.

 

If you're not in a hurry to get citizenship, and you wish to heighten your chances of not being denied based on GMC, I would seriously suggest putting off naturalization for at least 3 (or more) years after the end of your probationary period.  And keep your nose clean during that time  

[geowrian 22,336]

Agreed. I would personally wait a couple more years to be safer.

[Messedupagain 0]

6 minutes ago, Going through said:

With one DUI, I would normally suggest waiting at least a year after probation ends.

With two DUIs, I would suggest waiting a few years after probation ends.

 

Either way, it's going to come down to the IO you get, as there's a lot of wiggle room for them with your charges especially since A) you are a repeat offender, B) both offenses occurred within the past 5 years (ie. close succession), and C) you no longer fall under the "petty offense" exception due to having more than 1 misdemeanor in your history.

 

If you're not in a hurry to get citizenship, and you wish to heighten your chances of not being denied based on GMC, I would seriously suggest putting off naturalization for at least 3 (or more) years after the end of your probationary period.  And keep your nose clean during that time  

That makes sense. Thanks for the feedback. sounds like the best option is to wait as long as possible. I wanted to file as soon as I can coz my employer wants me to travel internationally but I keep dodging their requests with various excuses because i don't want to go out and not be able to come back in again. So i was hoping to file in 2019 as soon as my probation expired but, the feedback received from everyone is on point and it might be safer to keep dodging my employer's requests to travel internationally (they usually ask one a year for an international project assignment) for as long as i can. 

[Going through 5,668]

9 minutes ago, Messedupagain said:

That makes sense. Thanks for the feedback. sounds like the best option is to wait as long as possible. I wanted to file as soon as I can coz my employer wants me to travel internationally but I keep dodging their requests with various excuses because i don't want to go out and not be able to come back in again. So i was hoping to file in 2019 as soon as my probation expired but, the feedback received from everyone is on point and it might be safer to keep dodging my employer's requests to travel internationally (they usually ask one a year for an international project assignment) for as long as i can. 

With a valid GC you shouldn't have any serious issues travelling back and forth...no, there's no guarantee of entry unless you are a USC, of course, but it's not as terrifying as you may think with LPR status so long as your trips abroad are not too long as to bring your status into question.  Your DUI charges likely won't cause any issues during re-entry given your LPR status, if that's partly your concern.

 

Alternatively, you can simply remind your employer that as a LPR you are not yet comfortable with the idea of frequent travel---it's not unreasonable for you to want to "play it safe" travel-wise and keep your employer informed.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Going through

[puppalo 5]

Regarding travel, you may have more of an issue with the foreign countries with your DUIs. Canada, Mexico, a number of middle eastern and east asian countries all have some level of DUI restrictions for visitors, Canada being particularly strict among these.

[Messedupagain 0]

1 minute ago, puppalo said:

Regarding travel, you may have more of an issue with the foreign countries with your DUIs. Canada, Mexico, a number of middle eastern and east asian countries all have some level of DUI restrictions for visitors, Canada being particularly strict among these.

Yeah, you are right and I am aware of that but I am not too concerned about that. 

[Hypnos 6,576]

Being a "habitual drunkard" (their phrase) is actually one of the things that can render you inadmissible to the US (8 CFR 316.10(b)(2)(xii)), not just result in the denial of your N-400.

 

2 DUIs is probably something they would want to look a little closer at. And I would agree that, whilst you can certainly apply as soon as your probation has been terminated, the more daylight between the time you apply and the date of your convictions the better. I would think that 1-2 years from the date your probation ends, assuming you have no further legal issues, would be a good time-frame that would aid your application.

[Messedupagain 0]

12 minutes ago, Hypnos said:

Being a "habitual drunkard" (their phrase) is actually one of the things that can render you inadmissible to the US (8 CFR 316.10(b)(2)(xii)), not just result in the denial of your N-400.

 

2 DUIs is probably something they would want to look a little closer at. And I would agree that, whilst you can certainly apply as soon as your probation has been terminated, the more daylight between the time you apply and the date of your convictions the better. I would think that 1-2 years from the date your probation ends, assuming you have no further legal issues, would be a good time-frame that would aid your application.

So how is one determined to be a habitual drunkard. Is it up to the IO to decide a person is a habitual drunkard based on their criminal history? Or is there a medical review / professional opinion taken by medical professionals to decide this?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Messedupagain