Denial of I-751 while abroad

[ApplyingforN400 126]

Unfortunately this a scenario most of us google before making a trip while our I751s are pending for a year and a half. 

 

Most lawyers, seem to agree that if your I-751 is denied while you’re abroad then you cant go back. 

 

From the proper and extensive research I did, I got that this is NOT true and that you will most likely be paroled in, deferred inspection as only an immigration judge can order an LRP removed. 

 

So is this lawyers scaring people since they are a business before help?

 

or is there truth to this?

 

has this scenario ever happened? Is there a documented case someone saw here?

 

another research suggests that send an intent to deny first giving you a chance to respond

 

My only real worry is the interview letter or RFE being sent to old address and I miss it

 

other than these two issues. They have NO REASON to deny my jointly filed happily married case

[Davejj 31]

What's the point of your article? Are you denied while outside the US?

[ApplyingforN400 126]

Its a question?

did you read the question?

[ch3john 308]

Why don't you just update your address with USCIS like you're supposed to do? Sign up for Informed Delivery so you know what mail you have coming  and/or have a trusted individual check your mail while you're out of the country. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ch3john

[Sukie 1,440]

ApplyingforN400...your first post might have been a little confusing to some.

 

I have heard of many people terrified of going out of the US during the I-751 stage.  We did it many times with the expired green card and extension letter.  If someone's extension letter has expired, then they need to get the I-551 stamp.  Luckily, we cleared the I-751 process two weeks before the 3rd year anniversary of the green card.

 

Here is what the USCIS site says:

 

If your application to remove the conditions on your permanent residence is denied, you will receive a letter that will tell you why the application was denied. The process to remove you from the country will begin as soon as your application is denied. You will be allowed to have an immigration judge review the denial of your application during removal proceedings. During this review, we must prove that the facts on your application were untruthful and/or that your application was properly denied. If the immigration judge decides to remove you from the country, you may appeal this decision.

 

If you are out of the country when you are denied, I cannot see how you could re-enter the US.

 

That said, I do not PERSONALLY know of any situations like this, and I know what YOU are asking for is personal situations.  I can also understand how frustrating it is to be waiting, waiting, waiting....

 

Sukie in NY

 

[ApplyingforN400 126]

14 minutes ago, ch3john said:

Why don't you just update your address with USCIS like you're supposed to do? Sign up for Informed Delivery so you know what mail you have coming  and/or have a trusted individual check your mail while you're out of the country. 

You never heard of people updating their address and still get mail in their old addresses? 

 

This is the only issue I hate because logically, its the only one that can ruin the smooth ride for me, because of that I file AR11 online and sent it by mail when I sent my spouces I865

 

10 minutes ago, Sukie said:

ApplyingforN400...your first post might have been a little confusing to some.

 

I have heard of many people terrified of going out of the US during the I-751 stage.  We did it many times with the expired green card and extension letter.  If someone's extension letter has expired, then they need to get the I-551 stamp.  Luckily, we cleared the I-751 process two weeks before the 3rd year anniversary of the green card.

 

Here is what the USCIS site says:

 

If your application to remove the conditions on your permanent residence is denied, you will receive a letter that will tell you why the application was denied. The process to remove you from the country will begin as soon as your application is denied. You will be allowed to have an immigration judge review the denial of your application during removal proceedings. During this review, we must prove that the facts on your application were untruthful and/or that your application was properly denied. If the immigration judge decides to remove you from the country, you may appeal this decision.

 

If you are out of the country when you are denied, I cannot see how you could re-enter the US.

 

That said, I do not PERSONALLY know of any situations like this, and I know what YOU are asking for is personal situations.  I can also understand how frustrating it is to be waiting, waiting, waiting....

 

Sukie in NY

 

Thank you for the USCIS quote, that quote actually proves to me that you will be paroled in to be able to go to immigration court, since USCIS has to prove to judge before he/she can remove you as they are the only ones who can remove LRPs. 

 

This is actually a very good example of checks and balances since USCIS director is picked by the president, if it wasnt for judges, presidents can just handout excutive orders to their directors to remove who they please. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ApplyingforN400

[geowrian 22,336]

2 minutes ago, ApplyingforN400 said:

Thank you for the USCIS quote, that quote actually proves to me that you will be paroled in to be able to go to immigration court, since USCIS has to prove to judge before he/she can remove you as they are the only ones who can remove LRPs. 

I wouldn't quite say they have to parole you, though. Only an IJ can remove your LPR status, but entry is not guaranteed for an LPR. They could parole you. They could also detain you while you wait for an IJ to review the case.

[Sukie 1,440]

2 minutes ago, ApplyingforN400 said:

You never heard of people updating their address and still get mail in their old addresses? 

 

This is the only issue I hate because logically, its the only one that can ruin the smooth ride for me, because of that I file AR11 online and sent it by mail when I sent my spouces I865

 

Thank you for the USCIS quote, that quote actually proves to me that you will be paroled in to be able to go to immigration court, since USCIS has to prove to judge before he/she can remove you as they are the only ones who can remove LRPs. 

 

This is actually a very good example of checks and balances since USCIS director is picked by the president, if it wasnt for judges, presidents can just handout excutive orders to their directors to remove who they please. 

ApplyingforN400 - I fear you are incorrect.  A denial notice triggers immediate removal proceedings, meaning that your name/passport is flagged as being in removal.  You ARE allowed a court date, but you must BE IN THE USA already.  If you are overseas, and try to come into the US, you will be denied entry.   There is a space of about 30 days between denial and a court hearing. 

 

It means, if you are denied (and in the US), that you will be granted a hearing but that is a DEPORTATION hearing.  Your only hope would be that the judge would see more evidence and then grant a stay of deportation.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not an immigration attorney, but I did work in the field of law.  This question would be best answered by an attorney.

 

Sukie in NY

[ApplyingforN400 126]

8 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I wouldn't quite say they have to parole you, though. Only an IJ can remove your LPR status, but entry is not guaranteed for an LPR. They could parole you. They could also detain you while you wait for an IJ to review the case.

 

6 minutes ago, Sukie said:

ApplyingforN400 - I fear you are incorrect.  A denial notice triggers immediate removal proceedings, meaning that your name/passport is flagged as being in removal.  You ARE allowed a court date, but you must BE IN THE USA already.  If you are overseas, and try to come into the US, you will be denied entry.   There is a space of about 30 days between denial and a court hearing. 

 

It means, if you are denied (and in the US), that you will be granted a hearing but that is a DEPORTATION hearing.  Your only hope would be that the judge would see more evidence and then grant a stay of deportation.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not an immigration attorney, but I did work in the field of law.  This question would be best answered by an attorney.

 

Sukie in NY

We are yet again at both answers. 

 

I feel it's the technical terms are what throw us off from finding the real answer. 

 

While an LRP is not guaranteed entry, they are guaranteed a hearing (?) 

 

being paroled in (deferred admission) or detained until court date. Is not entry to the US on paper and from a legal stand point, but its also not you being put on a flight back to where you came from but youre actually in the country getting your case sorted. 

 

But here we are, why I asked the question, and no one seems to know, and I wouldnt be surprised if every CBP officer has their own view on it 🤷🏻‍♂️  But law is law and would like to know thw law. 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ApplyingforN400

[Scazy 78]

Have you guys heard about 751 being denied without a notice to deny or RFE/interview? 

[ApplyingforN400 126]

8 minutes ago, Scazy said:

Have you guys heard about 751 being denied without a notice to deny or RFE/interview? 

I second this question, I personally dont think this exists even if they have all the evidence to wrap you in and throw you off the coast. They will always RFE, interview, And intent to deny, maybe even reinterview. 

The reason for this, goes back to being an LRP, and not wanting to automatically make the case go to court, wasting more resources if they can solve issues internally within the agency. 

 

I think for this reason lawyers say you will not be able to enter since it never happened? 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ApplyingforN400

[Scazy 78]

14 minutes ago, ApplyingforN400 said:

I second this question, I personally dont think this exists even if they have all the evidence to wrap you in and throw you off the coast. They will always RFE, interview, And intent to deny, maybe even reinterview. 

The reason for this, goes back to being an LRP, and not wanting to automatically make the case go to court, wasting more resources if they can solve issues internally within the agency. 

 

I think for this reason lawyers say you will not be able to enter since it never happened? 

I'm not sure.. really gray area. Check this thread with Memo on a subject: 

 

[ApplyingforN400 126]

11 minutes ago, Scazy said:

I'm not sure.. really gray area. Check this thread with Memo on a subject: 

 

You have great links scazy, ty. 

 

What I got from the memo was a denial without interview is possible. 

 

From the look of it, this was the memo when the Notice of intend to deny started? (2006) the article states that if USCIS thinks the marriage is not valid, they forward the case to the fraud unit, if the fraud unit confirms, they send NOID first, where you can rebutt the fraud unit findings (home visit etc etc) then denial. 

 

So it seems there is no quick way to an I-751 denial without some back and forth, and lawyers are free to make the claim that you would be denied entry as it a very hard point to reach without pretty much being out the country so long and completely dropping the ball on your immigration journey. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ApplyingforN400

[yippy_j 17]

is it a question or it is a statement? 

 

I am really confused here.

[ApplyingforN400 126]

Just now, yippy_j said:

 

I am really confused here.

We dont want that now do we?