Need help on good case building.

[OlayemiLoray 172]

12 hours ago, ChuAni said:

 

Hello!

 

Every case is different from another case. 

 

1) Actually, Applicants mustn't frontload their case to prove a Bona-fide Relationship at the Interview.

 

2) Applicants from these Countries don't have a lot to show to prove a Bona-fide Relationship at the Interview.

 

As of last week, up-to 3 Applicants got their visa, approved at the Interview at the USEM, Nigeria.

One of the Applicants visited once, submitted 6 photos and just had a screenshot of social media Chat. They were approved straight up.

 

Generally, COs try to look closer when you try so hard to prove that your Relationship is bona-fide.

 

Just get and have the required documents and evidence needed.

Pray fervently and answer the Interview Questions.

 

Exactly  every case is different just like every country...I know what is required of Nigeria and Ghana...I know of women who were denied from both countries for not either having enough or too little evidence..For me it is about quality and not quantity...No one has to prove hard if they have the required evidence that is asked to submit to the embassy. However Ghana is one of the toughest embassies to deal with as some are aware of....OP as I stated before you did good by submitting the evidence you submitted...

[OlayemiLoray 172]

10 hours ago, vocaledge said:

I'm sorry - I mean no offense to you but to be fair, yes you did, although maybe not in those words.
 

 

Where are you getting this terrible advice? I mean, no offense, but you dont even have your NOA2 yet, so how can you state what is or isn't correct - you dont have any experience of it, nor have you shown where this bad knowledge came from.

 

Front-loading the petition is perfectly fine and will do absolutely NO detriment to the applcant.  Wherever you heard otherwise was bad bad advice.

 

People should refrain from giving advice unless they are SURE they are correct.

Exactly!!! I frontloaded to the USCIS (no RFE) and also side loaded to the NVC (no checklist) and I made sure it was good quality evidence as well as enough and yes we have our interview date...I would never tell anyone to send in the bare minimum and especially with countries like Nigeria and Ghana...Bad advice all the way around...As I stated to the OP she has done right by submitting what she submitted as long as your spouse knows to answer the questions when it comes time for the interview, you will be fine.

[TBoneTX 43,434]

10 hours ago, John & Rose said:

I did a really horrible job of communicating what I meant. The evidence has to be adequate to show a bona fide relationship but there is a point of diminishing return. We all have to convince a stranger that the relationship is real and that stranger is well trained at finding the cracks. Front loading is good to a point. In the end, the proof has to convince the CO that the relationship is real. 

Thank you for this crucial, well-stated clarification.

People on this site can be easily confused, especially when they're new to the process.

The I-129F petition is reviewed by USCIS adjudicators.

The visa application is reviewed by the consular officers.

The standards for petition approval are basic.

The standards for visa issuance are complex.

A petition can sail through USCIS but be stopped dead at the visa interview at the consulate.

If the consulate returns the petition to USCIS as "refused," USCIS may reaffirm the petition or let it die.

The consulate is not supposed to refuse a visa on the basis of material that USCIS has seen.

This is why judicious front-loading of the petition is prudent, especially when COs can refuse to consider evidence that's brought to the visa interview.

[John & Rose 7,239]

2 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Thank you for this crucial, well-stated clarification.

People on this site can be easily confused, especially when they're new to the process.

The I-129F petition is reviewed by USCIS adjudicators.

The visa application is reviewed by the consular officers.

The standards for petition approval are basic.

The standards for visa issuance are complex.

A petition can sail through USCIS but be stopped dead at the visa interview at the consulate.

If the consulate returns the petition to USCIS as "refused," USCIS may reaffirm the petition or let it die.

The consulate is not supposed to refuse a visa on the basis of material that USCIS has seen.

This is why judicious front-loading of the petition is prudent, especially when COs can refuse to consider evidence that's brought to the visa interview.

Again, I apologize for my poor presentation of what I was meaning to say. I agree that it may have confused new filers.  I will do a better job of explaining what I am trying to say in the future. Like you, I was only trying to help. There is a point of diminishing returns but it is very important that all petitions include enough evidence to convince a stranger that the relationship is real. I am sorry for any confusion that I may have caused.  

[JoelThai 313]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

A petition can sail through USCIS but be stopped dead at the visa interview at the consulate.

If the consulate returns the petition to USCIS as "refused," USCIS may reaffirm the petition or let it die.

The consulate is not supposed to refuse a visa on the basis of material that USCIS has seen.

This is why judicious front-loading of the petition is prudent, especially when COs can refuse to consider evidence that's brought to the visa interview.

 

In all due respect, recognizing you as a forum moderator, I hope you can clarify for me your statements.   Are you referring to front loading with evidence of having met in person during the prior 24 months of I-129f submission?   Or are you suggesting to front load with evidence of an ongoing relationship?   

 

If it is for the later, then why do the I-129F instructions not state anything about the desirability of including evidence of the ongoing relationship?  And why do some (maybe all?) Embassies state that the evidence of an ongoing relationship should be introduced during the interview phase?  Specifically, in my case, the Bangkok Embassy, both in their Packet 3 and Packet 4 letters to the beneficiary, state to bring the evidence of ongoing relationship to the interview.  They specifically state that is is not necessary to submit prior to the interview.

 

Unless your statement pertains to the evidence of meeting during the prior 24 months before submission, it seems that there is a disconnect between the instructions given to me by the USCIS and my beneficiaries Embassy.    That being said, I realize that practice does not always match official instructions, so is that what is happening?

 

Again, I respect your answers and help as I recognize your level of experience.  

[geowrian 22,336]

*NOTE: I'm not the moderator that posted the statement you quoted. These are my opinions/statements alone.*

 

9 minutes ago, JoelThai said:

Are you referring to front loading with evidence of having met in person during the prior 24 months of I-129f submission?   Or are you suggesting to front load with evidence of an ongoing relationship?   

Providing evidence that you met within the 2 years prior to filing is a requirement. It is not frontloading. Frontloading refers to providing relationship evidence, which is not an actual requirement of the I-129F petition (see below).

 

9 minutes ago, JoelThai said:

If it is for the later, then why do the I-129F instructions not state anything about the desirability of including evidence of the ongoing relationship?  And why do some (maybe all?) Embassies state that the evidence of an ongoing relationship should be introduced during the interview phase?  Specifically, in my case, the Bangkok Embassy, both in their Packet 3 and Packet 4 letters to the beneficiary, state to bring the evidence of ongoing relationship to the interview.  They specifically state that is is not necessary to submit prior to the interview.

The I-129F does not require this. USCIS is responsible for the I-129F...they don't control what DOS does with it afterwards (which is who is responsible for the embassies/consulates). It's a separation of departments...USCIS adjudicates the I-129F based on its requirements alone, then hand it over to NVC (part of DOS) to do whatever they do with it (which is send it to the embassy/consulate).

 

The I-129F is just to establish a relationship between petitioner and beneficiary to permit the beneficiary to apply for a K-1 visa. The I-129F is mostly about complying with IMBRA, gathering basic biographical and history information, and otherwise ensuring the petitioner is permitted to sponsor a fiance. It's not about the relationship itself, so USCIS doesn't evaluate it.

 

The CO at the embassy/consulate determines if the relationship is bona fide or not. This is a K-1 visa requirement at every embassy/consulate, although some are notoriously more strict than others in terms of what evidence is required to meet this requirement.

[JoelThai 313]

28 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The CO at the embassy/consulate determines if the relationship is bona fide or not. This is a K-1 visa requirement at every embassy/consulate, although some are notoriously more strict than others in terms of what evidence is required to meet this requirement.

 

My interpretation of the USCIS instructions and Embassy instructions are in 100% agreement with your comment.  But, there seems to be some disagreement in statements made by others as to when the "Evidence of an ongoing relations" is to be introduced in the process.  It has been implied by others that it is desirable to introduce evidence of ongoing relationship with the I-129f submission, but I am trying to figure out why when the official US government instructions state to submit it during the Embassy phase.

 

I see based on your timeline you are post interview.   Out of curiosity, when did you submit your evidence of ongoing relationship?

Edited March 4, 2018 by JoelThai

[JoelThai 313]

47 minutes ago, geowrian said:

*NOTE: I'm not the moderator that posted the statement you quoted. These are my opinions/statements alone.*

 

Providing evidence that you met within the 2 years prior to filing is a requirement. It is not frontloading. Frontloading refers to providing relationship evidence, which is not an actual requirement of the I-129F petition (see below).

Specifically, the forum moderator stated "This is why judicious front-loading of the petition is prudent..."   What I am asking for is clarification on what is he recommending to be front-loaded"?   If it is evidence of the ongoing relationship, my question is why?   The instructions for the petition say nothing about evidence of an ongoing relationship.  Logically, when taking the official instructions into account,  I would assume the moderator is referring to the meeting of prior 24 months, but I am not sure if that is their intention.

 

Edit:  I guess I am misunderstanding the meaning of front loading.   I was reading it as including more than what would ordinarily be necessary.  But I understand why that would be incorrect.   So, then I would assume if embassies are rejecting applications because the application is not front-loaded with ongoing evidence, they are out of sync with the instructions.   That would be really sad if true.  

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by JoelThai

[JoelThai 313]

@TBoneTX  I think @geowrian clarified why I was confused.   If Beneficiaries are actually being rejected because their petitioners have properly followed the published instructions of the I-129f, that is a pretty sad situation.   I fully understand the need of the Embassy to need evidence of an on going relationship, and if some are expecting it to be received with the forwarded I-129f documentation from the NVC, I see a big problem.

 

I am personally not concerned as my Embassy has specifically documented to submit it during the interview process.   If my Embassy wanted me to front-load it into the I-129f petition, I would expect them to instruct me to do so and not relay on an unofficial internet forum to tell me to do so.  

[geowrian 22,336]

26 minutes ago, JoelThai said:

My interpretation of the USCIS instructions and Embassy instructions are in 100% agreement with your comment.  But, there seems to be some disagreement in statements made by others as to when the "Evidence of an ongoing relations" is to be introduced in the process.  It has been implied by others that it is desirable to introduce evidence of ongoing relationship with the I-129f submission, but I am trying to figure out why when the official US government instructions state to submit it during the Embassy phase.

 

I see based on your timeline you are post interview.   Out of curiosity, when did you submit your evidence of ongoing relationship?

That's where this entire discussion of frontloading comes into play. USCIS does not require relationship evidence, but providing it beforehand lets the CO see it before the interview. By "government instructions", I'm assuming you are referring to DOS/embassy/consulate instructions. That's because that is when they require the evidence to support the claim of a bona fide relationship. USCIS (and DOS) won't tell you to submit something before they will look at it.

 

In theory, every CO should base their decision based upon all the information available to them...including at the interview. However, that's not actually how it plays out at every embassy and with every CO. Letting them see some information beforehand may help set a positive impression of the case. In certain countries....like Nigeria and Ghana and such...the COs are extremely skeptical of relationships (due to presumed high fraud rates), so not providing the information beforehand is already putting you well behind in proving your case.

 

I submitted almost all relationship evidence at the interview (I was with my fiance there)...I only "frontloaded" like 3 photos or something. But I knew I was going through an embassy where the COs don't review the evidence beforehand. If we were going through another embassy, I would have provided more evidence.

 

14 minutes ago, JoelThai said:

Edit:  I guess I am misunderstanding the meaning of front loading.   I was reading it as including more than what would ordinarily be necessary.  But I understand why that would be incorrect.   So, then I would assume if embassies are rejecting applications because the application is not front-loaded with ongoing evidence, they are out of sync with the instructions.   That would be really sad if true.  

At some embassies, yes, that is the case. At others, it can still help. As another member in this thread posted, the CO reviewed the evidence beforehand and didn't ask much at the actual interview as a result. And yet for others, frontloading doesn't help at all as the COs don't review the case beforehand. Without being sure which one is the case (which is really based on experiences shared from members over the years), the general advice tends to be to frontload in most cases. And, as stated before, it doesn't hurt to frontload unless you go overboard or provide harmful information to your case.

[JoelThai 313]

8 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I submitted almost all relationship evidence at the interview (I was with my fiance there)...I only "frontloaded" like 3 photos or something. But I knew I was going through an embassy where the COs don't review the evidence beforehand. If we were going through another embassy, I would have provided more evidence.

Thanks for taking the time to help and sharing your experience.

 

I am going to assume that the evidence included to document the meeting in the prior 24 months can also go a long way to help establish the existence of a real relationship for the CO.   For some, that meeting may actually mark the beginning and only in person visit.   I imagine for them, the "ongoing" part would be additional documentation of evidence that the relationship has been maintained post initial visit with phone calls, chats, and letters.   

 

For me personally,  our relationship predates the prior 24 months of my I-129F application submission, so my evidence of on-going relationship will document multiple visits over a 5 year period along with phone logs, letters, greeting cards, emails, photographs, passport entry and exit stamps, hotel reservations, and flight itineraries spanning that period, packaged and indexed in a manner so that the CO can quickly findswhat he might be interested in reviewing to validate our relationship.

[TBoneTX 43,434]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:23 PM, John & Rose said:

Again, I apologize for my poor presentation of what I was meaning to say. I agree that it may have confused new filers.  I will do a better job of explaining what I am trying to say in the future. Like you, I was only trying to help. There is a point of diminishing returns but it is very important that all petitions include enough evidence to convince a stranger that the relationship is real. I am sorry for any confusion that I may have caused.  

This is a very classy and handsome statement, John -- thank you in return.

---

JoelThai, geowrian has stated things so nicely that I can't think of what to add.

[Angelo21 0]

On 02/03/2018 at 10:11 AM, Shamrox76 said:

We filed the I-129f with all supporting documents that is:

Letter of Intent to marry

Proof of ongoing relationship (both chat and call history)

Receipt of engagement ring

Pictures of time spent together during my two weeks visit

Pictures of his family and friends

Pictures of places we visited together

Pictures of gifts for him and his family

Receipts of historic places we visited

Receipts of every item we bought during my visit (food,shopping,hotel,road toll tickects)

Copy of my return ticket

Copy of my passport showing stamps.

What other elements do we need with regards to front-loading our case with enough / substantial evidence?

Thank you.

Hi! My fiance and I are waiting for NOA2. seen lots of discussions on the k1 in Ghana and it's quiet worrying. We met physically in September 2016 and spent 10 weeks together and we hope that should be enough. People are saying at least you have to meet more than once to convince the CO. Has anyone ever experienced This?

[Shamrox76 6]

On 7/24/2018 at 2:23 AM, Angelo21 said:

Hi! My fiance and I are waiting for NOA2. seen lots of discussions on the k1 in Ghana and it's quiet worrying. We met physically in September 2016 and spent 10 weeks together and we hope that should be enough. People are saying at least you have to meet more than once to convince the CO. Has anyone ever experienced This?

Surprisingly,COs are requesting more face to face meeting with your spouse these days.

[Angelo21 0]

Ok thanks. Seen lots getting approved from Africa with just meeting once basically a week or two.