United passenger forcibly removed from flight after refusing to give up seat

[yuna628 9,873]

11 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

The only time I could see this as acceptable is if the staff is going for an emergent situation.

 

im wondering if there's more to the story, as well something seems off.  Overbooking sucks, but it's the nature of the beast.

According to The Consumerist:
 

Quote

 

He was allowed to get back on the plane, one passenger told the Courier-Journal, though he seemed disoriented and his face was bloody. Passengers were asked to leave the plane while a medical crew assisted the man, and they were then instructed to head back to the gate so officials could “tidy up” the plane.

“Everyone was shocked and appalled,” the passenger told the Courier-Journal. “There were several children on the flight as well that were very upset.” https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/videos-show-united-airlines-passenger-dragged-off-overbooked-flight/

 

Man... I wouldn't get back on that plane for anything after that idiocy. They booked the plane so full their own crew couldn't get on board? Whaaa?? Even when our old hunk o' tin-can over the Atlantic was solidly booked, there were always assigned seats for cabin crew..

[Dakine10 5,452]

7 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

Many airlines offer no compensation especially Canadian ones other than "we will find you another flight".  Same with delays.  I had a flight going from Atlanta to JFK a few years ago that was delayed 6 hours.  They suggested finding alternative arrangements and had some minor snacks available.  It was an equipment issue but there was also a snowstorm so they pretty much were covered.

  Some of the compensation in the USA is required by law. The airline is not doing it because they want to. The bigger issue is consumers not knowing their rights. 

 

  Most times I've seen an overbooking situation, it's resolved at the gate prior to boarding. That's another reason that makes it seem like this was not an actual overbooking with customers, but that United needed to get the flight crew on the aircraft. Not to dwell on that, but just  because it may be covered by different regulations that rebooking passengers. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Dakine10

[Transborderwife 4,666]

According to The Hill:

 

“Almost any planeload of airline passengers includes some people with urgent travel needs and others who may be more concerned about the cost of their tickets than about getting to their destination on time,” the agency says. “DOT rules require airlines to seek out people who are willing to give up their seats for compensation before bumping anyone involuntarily.”

Anyone bumped against their will may be entitled to compensation, the agency says, and must be given a written statement detailing their rights and explaining how the airline decides who gets on an overbooked flight and who doesn't.

“Airlines set their own ‘boarding priorities’ — the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation,” the DOT says. “When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check-in.”

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/328105-united-passenger-refused-to-leave-overbooked-flight

 

so looks like the airline has free reign 

[CaliCat 3,957]

21 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

According to The Hill:

 

“Almost any planeload of airline passengers includes some people with urgent travel needs and others who may be more concerned about the cost of their tickets than about getting to their destination on time,” the agency says. “DOT rules require airlines to seek out people who are willing to give up their seats for compensation before bumping anyone involuntarily.”

Anyone bumped against their will may be entitled to compensation, the agency says, and must be given a written statement detailing their rights and explaining how the airline decides who gets on an overbooked flight and who doesn't.

“Airlines set their own ‘boarding priorities’ — the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation,” the DOT says. “When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check-in.”

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/328105-united-passenger-refused-to-leave-overbooked-flight

 

so looks like the airline has free reign 

 

That sounds crazy. Normally the gate agents will keep increasing the amount of compensation until someone gives up a seat on the plane. Not sure why they decided to stop at $800.00. In addition, if he was removed by force and against his will, he can sue for assault.

[Dakine10 5,452]

  Here's United's

 

  It says travelers with disabilities or unaccompanied minors will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding. For everyone else it's based on a combination of fare class, itinerary, frequent flyer program membership, and seating assignment/check in time.  So it seems like if your travelling economy, not a frequent flyer, and check in late you may be SOL.  One good reason to check in online as early as possible, I guess. 

 

  At any rate, they don't need to be dragging people off the plane like that. If they were more open about their policy, I think most people would accept the inevitable.  I wouldn't be happy about having to get off the plane, but I don't envision the need for police to drag me off either. 

 

  

 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

2 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

That sounds crazy. Normally the gate agents will keep increasing the amount of compensation until someone gives up a seat on the plane. Not sure why they decided to stop at $800.00. In addition, if he was removed by force and against his will, he can sue for assault.

I do wonder if maybe they had a cap.  But if they can bump involuntarily as the DOT said, that is no longer his seat.  So I could see where they may get off

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Transborderwife said:

I do wonder if maybe they had a cap.  But if they can bump involuntarily as the DOT said, that is no longer his seat.  So I could see where they may get off

Ya I guess using some weird logic they could argue that if they had the right to select him to be involuntarily removed, that was no longer his seat and he was therefore "trespassing" and they had the right to remove a "trespasser" by force?

 

Legally they might be okay in the end I guess. Morally/ethically of course not, but I never expect that from any airline. Or pretty much any large business. They do what they can get away with, not what is right.

[Dakine10 5,452]

 

 

In an interview with the Louisville Courier-Journal, a passenger on the flight said United employees began soliciting volunteers at the gate to take a Monday flight, with the offer of $400 and a hotel stay.  

 

Passengers were allowed to board the plane, where they were informed the airline needed four volunteers to make room for United Airlines employees that needed to be in Louisville Monday for a flight, the woman told the Courier-Journal. 

When no one volunteered to be bumped for an offer of $800 from the airline, a manager told passengers a computer would select four people to be bumped from the flight. 

While two of the bumped passengers departed the plane peacefully, the man refused to leave, even after several law enforcement officers spoke with him, the Courier-Journal reported.

 

  read more

[Teddy B 17,252]

1 hour ago, Dakine10 said:

  Here's United's

 

  It says travelers with disabilities or unaccompanied minors will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding. For everyone else it's based on a combination of fare class, itinerary, frequent flyer program membership, and seating assignment/check in time.  So it seems like if your travelling economy, not a frequent flyer, and check in late you may be SOL.  One good reason to check in online as early as possible, I guess. 

 

  At any rate, they don't need to be dragging people off the plane like that. If they were more open about their policy, I think most people would accept the inevitable.  I wouldn't be happy about having to get off the plane, but I don't envision the need for police to drag me off either. 

 

  

 

This reminds me of a discussion board I post on once in a while.

[LionessDeon 2,060]

So between boarding and this man being seated a need for a 4 passenger flight crew arose?  I find it difficult to believe that United was unaware of this before they allowed passengers to begin boarding.  They should've halted further boarding to eliminate asking already seated passengers to leave the plane.  I recently flew Spirit and the desk check in told me that the last few passengerf to check in are not given a seat assignment in case they have to give the seat to someone else.  

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Got to be more to the story. He tried to play the I am a doctor card. Having been raised in a family full of doctors, they are notorious for using that to try and get out of every situation. whenever the police or state patrol use to stop us, dad always played the doctor-emergency card. Always worked back then . 

[Dakine10 5,452]

1 hour ago, Teddy B said:

This reminds me of a discussion board I post on once in a while.

  I've heard of that place.

[Dakine10 5,452]

49 minutes ago, LionessDeon said:

So between boarding and this man being seated a need for a 4 passenger flight crew arose?  I find it difficult to believe that United was unaware of this before they allowed passengers to begin boarding.  They should've halted further boarding to eliminate asking already seated passengers to leave the plane.  I recently flew Spirit and the desk check in told me that the last few passengerf to check in are not given a seat assignment in case they have to give the seat to someone else.  

  No, they asked for volunteers before boarding. They already knew they needed to have 4 people 'volunteer'.  Perhaps the big mistake was letting everyone board assuming they would get those volunteers. The process would have been easier if they denied boarding than trying to forcibly remove someone. 

[Dakine10 5,452]

35 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Got to be more to the story. He tried to play the I am a doctor card. Having been raised in a family full of doctors, they are notorious for using that to try and get out of every situation. whenever the police or state patrol use to stop us, dad always played the doctor-emergency card. Always worked back then . 

  One thing for sure, the airlines don't care about anyone's sad story. I don't think the police just showed up and dragged him off the plane though. I'm sure they gave him an opportunity to leave of his own accord. The more I read about this,  I think it came down to he was one of the unlucky people bumped. He was getting off the plane one way or another and it ended up being the hard way.

[bcking 3,157]

39 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Got to be more to the story. He tried to play the I am a doctor card. Having been raised in a family full of doctors, they are notorious for using that to try and get out of every situation. whenever the police or state patrol use to stop us, dad always played the doctor-emergency card. Always worked back then . 

My dad never got a speed ticket in a 30 year career using that excuse. He often would drive to Bend, Oregon from Portland which is a several hour drive up in the mountains. A lot of curvy roads, and he would speed regularly because he had a small sports car. Whenever he stopped he would say give them the story about how he does the outreach clinic, he is rushing to get there because he has patients that afternoon etc... and it always worked.

 

The last time I got pulled over for speeding was in medical school, and unfortunately it was while driving myself and 3 other med student friends to Disneyland in California. Using that excuse would not have worked

 

That being said, I could DEFINITELY see myself being very very upset in that situation. I often times book a flight to return home literally the night before work. We don't get a lot of time off, we work long hours, so I am going to maximize my "time away". More so right now since most of my trips are visiting my wife. I've been on flights going home from seeing her in England I would never take the offer because I am scheduled to be back at work. That is a VERY legitimate reason to say no. Getting a physician to cover for you is incredibly difficult, whether you are in clinic or in the hospital. There are safety issues (they don't know the patient, often times it isn't a doctor who is not working so instead it is someone taking double the load). Unfortunately practices/hospitals don't have an "on call" doctor for when other doctors can't make it in. Most places have others just pick up the slack which can be very difficult. I wish we did have a "catastrophe on call" person who had nothing else scheduled but could pitch in but it just isn't realistic.