United passenger forcibly removed from flight after refusing to give up seat

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

[Inikamoze 86]

You can sáy all you want that this was a disruptive passenger for refusing to leave the aircraft and it really shouldn't have got to this however what I also take away from this is that if you pay for a seat on a plane, arrive at the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane you don't actually have any rights to travelling at all.

We all understand the overbooking however it's a bit rich for the airline to throw you off a flight due to their mistake.

i hope they end up paying severely for this. Such a huge corporation should know how to handle such situations and if it meant paying more that $800 then so be it!

 

[Dakine10 5,452]

1 hour ago, Inikamoze said:

You can sáy all you want that this was a disruptive passenger for refusing to leave the aircraft and it really shouldn't have got to this however what I also take away from this is that if you pay for a seat on a plane, arrive at the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane you don't actually have any rights to travelling at all.

We all understand the overbooking however it's a bit rich for the airline to throw you off a flight due to their mistake.

i hope they end up paying severely for this. Such a huge corporation should know how to handle such situations and if it meant paying more that $800 then so be it!

 

 

  You do have the right to a seat on a plane, but perhaps not the one you wanted. The contract of carriage still requires the airline get you on the  next available flight to your booked destination. Often it's little consolation to get somewhere the day after you need to be there. 

 

   If you compare air travel to 20 years ago, essentially everyone is paying business class prices nowadays and getting standby service.

[Dakine10 5,452]

3 hours ago, Teddy B said:

I wouldn't doubt if this is already protocol, I've never heard of this happening before. I bet this was a last minute screw up that caught everyone by surprise.

 

      It happened to us one time that our flight was delayed because the original flight crew was stranded somewhere due flight cancellations, and they had to find another crew. It was a 4 hour delay for us, but I imagine it could be a scenario something like that in this case. From the airline's perspective, it's easier to bump 4 passengers from one flight than to cancel and rebook a couple of hundred on another. 

[TiklingGuy 211]

I would have said first class tickets on the next 30,000 miles that i travel.

[Dakine10 5,452]

16 minutes ago, TiklingGuy said:

I would have said first class tickets on the next 30,000 miles that i travel.

 

   You have some negotiating power when they are asking for volunteers. I've heard of people offering to take the money and asking for a first class upgrade. It's not really a big deal to the airline if they have those seats available.

 

  The catch is you have to approach them about it. If you're good at that type of thing it helps. Most people don't expect to be removed involuntarily, so they just wait.

 

  

[charmander 692]

I've flown with overbooked flights before but I've never seen such a case where they looked for volunteers after boarding the plane. They always do this at the gate before boarding, people who are on stand by list wait without an assigned seat. If they can't find volunteers stand-by people wait for the next plane. My theory the situation with United crew that needed to go to Louisville arose last minute, the flight was not overbooked, they boarded the plane but when the crew showed up they started looking for volunteers. 

 

If they really wanted to resolve this issue, they could have offered more. I bet $1000 credit, first class upgrade on next flight, and couple United Club passes would have attracted more than half the plane. My previous experiences with overbooked flights were all resolved by $400-$500 airline credit and/or first class upgrade on next flight. God knows what they offered but the rest of the story is a PR disaster from the random selection of the passenger to O'Hare police brutally taking him off the plane.

 

Unfortunately boycotting United won't resolve anything. Delta, American, they are no different. I personally like Jetblue but if you google, they also had bad instances. Long story short airlines win, passengers lose. 

[charmander 692]

I found this article that gives little more detail on what happened. https://apnews.com/ae81a66dbc124acbad52e3cf8de9617d

 

My prediction was right the crew came to gate after they boarded the plane. So technically this should not be called an overbooked flight in my opinion. To find volunteers, they first offered $400, then $800 voucher plus hotel for the night. I guess due to the fact that it was Sunday evening and no other flight was available that day, no one wanted to give up their seat. At that point they randomly picked the passenger. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I just saw it on TV. A fellow passenger was interviewed.  He said the fuzz was cool at first,  until the passenger became very agitated and started slapping them away.

 

As charmander said, I bet the flight crew add was last minute. 

 

As a side note , the next stop was only 4 hour drive. United could have got them a rental car. 

 

Poor choices the way United handled it .

[OriZ 3,157]

9 hours ago, Dakine10 said:

  I agree with that. They overbook to maximize their profit. They should be prepared to maximize the compensation as well. Eight hundred dollars would not be worth it for me in most cases.

 

Yeah, me either. The last couple times my wife and I traveled they were offering $300-400 because they were overbooked and of course we didn't take it. We usually need to be where we need to be and that's it.

 

9 hours ago, bcking said:

"United had overbooked the flight and was looking for four volunteers to leave the plane in order to send four United crew members to Louisville."

 

Presumably if there were "standby" people they wouldn't have gotten on the flight in the first place since it was overbooked. My interpretation would be they were ticketed customers, and then an "unforeseen" circumstance arose where they needed to send their crew. I agree it might be some "emergency" where they really need the crew in Louisville, but again that is their problem not the customers. They need to be prepared to offer whatever it takes to make it happen. 

 

I agree with anybody who said this must have been a different situation because they do normally offer it at the gate or even at check in. I do my check in online and something comes up during the process asking me to give up my seats, which I have never done. 

 

6 hours ago, IAMX said:

We'll see if United wants to start changing policy after much negative publicity. 

 

Dumb question but is there a way to differentiate when booking a flight between one that can be overbooked and one that can't? Or does that even exist?

 

Nope.

 

4 hours ago, Inikamoze said:

You can sáy all you want that this was a disruptive passenger for refusing to leave the aircraft and it really shouldn't have got to this however what I also take away from this is that if you pay for a seat on a plane, arrive at the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane you don't actually have any rights to travelling at all.

We all understand the overbooking however it's a bit rich for the airline to throw you off a flight due to their mistake.

i hope they end up paying severely for this. Such a huge corporation should know how to handle such situations and if it meant paying more that $800 then so be it!

 

Overbooking is not a "mistake". It is a strategy, and a legal one. Clearly, this situation is a PR nightmare for them because of the police's actions. But it's important to remember that while United may have handled this situation wrong and while they called the police, they are not the ones who did this to the passenger. The video looks bad but it's not a United employee doing that.

 

1 hour ago, charmander said:

I've flown with overbooked flights before but I've never seen such a case where they looked for volunteers after boarding the plane. They always do this at the gate before boarding, people who are on stand by list wait without an assigned seat. If they can't find volunteers stand-by people wait for the next plane. My theory the situation with United crew that needed to go to Louisville arose last minute, the flight was not overbooked, they boarded the plane but when the crew showed up they started looking for volunteers. 

 

If they really wanted to resolve this issue, they could have offered more. I bet $1000 credit, first class upgrade on next flight, and couple United Club passes would have attracted more than half the plane. My previous experiences with overbooked flights were all resolved by $400-$500 airline credit and/or first class upgrade on next flight. God knows what they offered but the rest of the story is a PR disaster from the random selection of the passenger to O'Hare police brutally taking him off the plane.

 

Unfortunately boycotting United won't resolve anything. Delta, American, they are no different. I personally like Jetblue but if you google, they also had bad instances. Long story short airlines win, passengers lose. 

Jetblue rocks. Honestly, unless you're a frequent flyer, where you want the miles and stuff or get miles for stuff you buy and whatnot, unless you fly alot it's probably best to not use United, or Delta for that matter. When I didn't need to always fly the same airline for that reason and just picked the cheapest one at the time, my favorite was Jetblue. People think because it's low cost it's this and that but it is so much more comfortable than united if you're flying coach. More legroom etc. Better service. Unlimited snacks and drinks. Newer planes. I rarely ever do united economy anymore unless it's a real short flight because it's unbearable.

 

I think by law they can offer up to $1,350 and that's what they should have done here. United has its own issues that's for sure, god knows I've had my fair share of problems with them throughout the years, and there were many times I almost ditched them, but every time I was about to do that - start using Delta or somebody else instead it seemed like they weren't really any better. Delta has had alot of issues lately, and with some things United is actually more lenient or generous than the other airlines, or at least Delta and American, when it comes to problems and the need for compensation. Yes, overbooking is the airline's problem but there is a way to easily solve it. If you check in early, online 24 hours before then you're almost guaranteed a spot on the plane. Granted not everybody can do that and if everybody did, then it wouldn't solve the problem. But since not everybody does it - if you do you have an advantage. I've never had an issue with overbooking but I've had other issues with united, most recently actually I had a baggage delay ordeal in January - to make a long story short they told me one thing at the airport and another once I got to where I was staying and called them. They were supposed to deliver it the next morning and then all of a sudden on the phone I was told it was waiting for me at the airport(whereas before at the airport I was told it was in an inaccessible location) and to come get it. I laughed at them because the airport was over an hour away from where I already was. I told them that's impossible and they need to deliver my suitcase. Instead I ended up having to pick it up from a closer, smaller airport(20 minutes away) around mid afternoon time, after spending about 7 hours in total(including holding) on about 8 different phone calls. I decided they were going to pay me back for it, and they did. For my time, inconvenience, everything. I have a mileageplus explorer card so I ended up contacting united as well as chase benefit services. In total between the two I got $330 back, which might not sound like alot but considering I wasn't without my bag for that long I was pleased.

 

I did go and spend $160 to buy stuff I "needed" because I didn't have my suitcase with me and showed them that but it was more an excuse, I figured I could end up getting that stuff for free and then some(which ended up being an extra $170). It wasn't even about the money for me but more the point of it, I don't like it when people mess with me and they screwed with me so there needed to be some compensation. That's how I always work I try to turn a bad situation into a positive one, whether it's in this regard or anything else really, I always think how can I make this turn out in my advantage. In this case I just found a way to make them pay for screwing with me that's all, and they did and they paid generously, more than most.

 

Also, they seem to be pretty generous compared to Delta and American where flight changes are concerned. I booked a flight for May of this year a long time ago, like in June of last year. They made changes to the flight a few months ago that are more than 30 minute difference, and so I actually had to call and make some changes myself a couple of times since then and the changes were free of charge, because I can always pin it on them that it is due to their changes that I have to make mine. Between the total of 5 flights(both ways) I originally had 3 that were either economy plus or business/first, I actually got them to add a 4th one as well. So I'm only going to be in coach on one short 2 hour flight lol. The other flights are much longer. With united, a change basically entitles you to an almost free reign to do what you want with your flight, whereas with many airlines the changes you are allowed to make are still pretty limited and otherwise they just offer you a refund. So they have been really nice to me with that, really easy to work with plus the compensation so I feel a lil better about them right now but this issue is definitely not right.

Edited April 11, 2017 by OriZ

[Inikamoze 86]

2 hours ago, Dakine10 said:

 

  You do have the right to a seat on a plane, but perhaps not the one you wanted. The contract of carriage still requires the airline get you on the  next available flight to your booked destination. Often it's little consolation to get somewhere the day after you need to be there. 

 

   If you compare air travel to 20 years ago, essentially everyone is paying business class prices nowadays and getting standby service.

 

So i bought a cable package, they decided that I won't get to watch half of the channels until the weekend.... seems legit.

 

contract of carriage? So we are the behest of airline companies to take us to the correct destination at the time I expect to arrive when we purchased a ticket (based upon their own timetable). Weather issues are a different matter in getting you to the right place at the right time.

Maybe that should be a disclaimer when buying tickets, 

"The airline is doing you a favour allowing you to purchase this ticket today.... however it's anyone's guess if we have employees show up looking to take your seat at the last minute"

[OriZ 3,157]

12 minutes ago, Inikamoze said:

 

So i bought a cable package, they decided that I won't get to watch half of the channels until the weekend.... seems legit.

 

contract of carriage? So we are the behest of airline companies to take us to the correct destination at the time I expect to arrive when we purchased a ticket (based upon their own timetable). Weather issues are a different matter in getting you to the right place at the right time.

Maybe that should be a disclaimer when buying tickets, 

"The airline is doing you a favour allowing you to purchase this ticket today.... however it's anyone's guess if we have employees show up looking to take your seat at the last minute"

It is what it is, it's your choice whether to fly or not. I agree they should make it clearer to everybody.

[Inikamoze 86]

13 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Overbooking is not a "mistake". It is a strategy, and a legal one. Clearly, this situation is a PR nightmare for them because of the police's actions. But it's important to remember that while United may have handled this situation wrong and while they called the police, they are not the ones who did this to the passenger. The video looks bad but it's not a United employee doing that.

 

 

My bad I wasn't clear in my post, the mistake was in how they handled it. To only find out at the very last minute that a flight crew needed to be someplace else is pretty poor.

Whatever strategy Airlines use is their perogative, what I care about is how they handle a situation when that strategy impacts on fare paying passengers. Clearly they thought they could resolve this on the cheap. I have a feeling that this will cost them more than $800 with this particular passenger.

I'm sure the officer who's been suspended thought he was doing the correct thing but the way it looks at first glance is that excessive force was used fir the situation. Can't hide behind the badge as it does not mean you can beat up a passenger however annoying he might have been.

 

so in United's eyes the crew were more important than a Dr seeing his patients (the next day, if reports are correct). Nobody comes out looking good from this. Airline, obstinate passenger or over zealous law enforcement.

[Inikamoze 86]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

It is what it is, it's your choice whether to fly or not. I agree they should make it clearer to everybody.

Yes and it's incidents like this that bring it home about your rights and what Airlines can legally do.

I honestly didn't know that you could forcibly be removed from a flight you paid for if you were not volunteering giving up your seat.

 

[Dakine10 5,452]

1 hour ago, Inikamoze said:

 

So i bought a cable package, they decided that I won't get to watch half of the channels until the weekend.... seems legit.

 

contract of carriage? So we are the behest of airline companies to take us to the correct destination at the time I expect to arrive when we purchased a ticket (based upon their own timetable). Weather issues are a different matter in getting you to the right place at the right time.

Maybe that should be a disclaimer when buying tickets, 

"The airline is doing you a favour allowing you to purchase this ticket today.... however it's anyone's guess if we have employees show up looking to take your seat at the last minute"

  The contract of carriage is the terms you are agreeing to when you purchase a ticket. It outlines how they will get you there and how they will remedy any issues. In a way it is a disclaimer. The problem is most people don't read it. 

 

  I don't have cable but I assume they also have a terms of service that you agree to. The last time I had cable, I don't think they had to compensate you for downtime but I'm not sure how it works now.

 

  I don't agree with the practice of overbooking and bumping people off flights but I'm not sure how to get around it. Switching from United to Delta or American doesn't really help. They all work basically the same way. Every time I've flown for the last few years, these planes are flying at or near capacity.