AOS From Tourist Visa Threads Being Shut Down

[Teddy B 17,252]

This thread is not meant to discuss or debate anyone's personal feelings about the morality or legality of adjusting status from a tourist visa so please leave that discussion for another thread. Thanks in advance.

I would like to discuss/suggest a change in the moderating procedures when it comes to the threads that ask questions about adjusting status from a tourist visa while already inside the US. These threads in particular have a very high percentage of being hi-jacked and closed without the original poster getting the advice they are looking for and knowing what the proper procedures are. This is usually because some posters allow their personal feelings to override the legality of this process by improperly accusing other posters of fraud and the thread degenerating into a bickering mess. This in turn destroys the integrity of the proper information being given in the thread and leaves the person who originally started the thread more confused than when they asked the question. I would like to find a way of keeping these threads open and allowing the correct information to remain and the person who started the thread getting the information they are looking for, which is the main purpose of VJ.

It is well known by the people here with immigration experience (including the VJ mods) that adjusting status while inside the US from a B1/B2/VWP is a perfectly legal avenue for one to take, this isn't debatable, it is the law. I would like to suggest that instead of the mods simply locking these threads down when the bickering starts, that they remove the bickering and misinformed posts as the first course of action with a warning to the offender(s). The mods could and probably should, also make a point to inform the posters that the process of AOS from a tourist visa is perfectly legal if the person is already in the US and entered legally. That will allow the flow of discussion to continue, the correct information to be given to the person looking for help and the thread to run it's course. If some posters insist on bickering, then perhaps a thread ban or further admin action should be taken, but leave the option of closing the thread as a last resort.

If the VJ mods are directed to remove posts that clearly advocate immigration fraud, (as stated in the TOS), then it would be perfectly acceptable and expected that the mods also remove posts that incorrectly accuse other posters of partaking in immigration fraud. Falsely accusing another member of immigration fraud is also a breach of the VJ TOS. This change in process would help to insure that the correct information is given to the people who are seeking the help of the members on VJ and would cut down greatly on the amount of bickering that takes place in these threads.

Mods/Admin I look forward to your input.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I've seen several threads on the subject or variations thereof be closed because people highjack them and start speculating and making veiled accusations. I'd rather see off topic posts deleted and their posters subjected to admin action instead of closing the entire thread, which in the end provides a deservice to the OP.

[Boiler 45,670]

I have tried reporting such posts in the past, nothing was done.

The uninformed are mainly new members.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I have tried reporting such posts in the past, nothing was done.

The uninformed are mainly new members.

Hopefully we can make some progress with this thread.

[Boiler 45,670]

I doubt it, this has been an issue since I first joined.

[MacUK 983]

I have tried reporting such posts in the past, nothing was done.

The uninformed are mainly new members.

I'll admit that when I first joined I was one of the 'uninformed'.

Even though I personally disagree with the AoS procedure and think it's far too open to abuse I think I'm grown up enough to accept that I was wrong and that while it's not a just system, it is legal.

I would be curious to know however. For all of the threads where people ask for advice on how to fraudulently enter the US with intent to adjust that are rightly locked by the mods. How many of those people then get private messages from members telling them exactly how to defraud the system.

[Boiler 45,670]

Certainly true that it is a much bigger issue on VJ that it is with US Gov.

More seemingly due to the wait in line than anything else.

PMs are private so not an issue for VJ. Better if on thread so errors can be pointed out.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Amen to that, but in the end, the [broken] laws are what they are and we must presume that everyone here is acting in good faith until proven contrary, and in the cases where nefarious intent is disclosed, the best we can do it give advice to the contrary and let each person choose their own path.

As participants of a public forum, we can't presume to act as police or dispensers of justice. People will do what they want to do and they have to live with the consequences of their choices. It's up to the USCIS to vet their cases individually. We can only steer them in the right direction and if you can help one single person navigate the immigration maze with a little less anxiety or hindrance, then you've accomplished your goal.

I'll admit that when I first joined I was one of the 'uninformed'.
Even though I personally disagree with the AoS procedure and think it's far too open to abuse I think I'm grown up enough to accept that I was wrong and that while it's not a just system, it is legal.

I would be curious to know however. For all of the threads where people ask for advice on how to fraudulently enter the US with intent to adjust that are rightly locked by the mods. How many of those people then get private messages from members telling them exactly how to defraud the system.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Another voice added to this request. As someone who started an AOS from VWP many, many years ago (abandoned -- we moved back to the UK for better job and educational opportunities), it pains me to see incorrect, judgemental and sometimes just nasty comments made towards other VJers who are not committing any kind of fraud. I especially hate reading, "Well, we're doing it the right way." There's more than a dab of jelly on all of it.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Amen to that, but in the end, the [broken] laws are what they are and we must presume that everyone here is acting in good faith until proven contrary, and in the cases where nefarious intent is disclosed, the best we can do it give advice to the contrary and let each person choose their own path.

As participants of a public forum, we can't presume to act as police or dispensers of justice. People will do what they want to do and they have to live with the consequences of their choices. It's up to the USCIS to vet their cases individually. We can only steer them in the right direction and if you can help one single person navigate the immigration maze with a little less anxiety or hindrance, then you've accomplished your goal.

Shouldn't this be like the CEHST forum where people are guilty until proven innocent? Or at least they are if they aren't a white Chrisitan?

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Shouldn't this be like the CEHST forum where people are guilty until proven innocent? Or at least they are if they aren't a white Chrisitan?

SPOOOOOOKS! Welcome back.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

SPOOOOOOKS! Welcome back.

It was Obama and those damn liberals fault.

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

This is a difficult area to mod, because it can be a grey area, depending on intent.

To walk the line, modding wise, between allowing people a say (even if they disagree with the Op), and pointing out what could be illegal intent/ miss-use of a tourist visa, and helping those who genuinely have cause to AOS can be hard, and those reports are often debated muchly amongst the mods before we moderate the thread (or not moderate, as the case may be). What usually happens is that some posts are removed and maybe an in-thread warning to cool it given, or a verbal warning to the worst offenders in a thread(ie a note on their profiel, but without a suspension unless they seriously breached the TOS), and if that does not stop the bickering, we close the thread- especially as the link to our Guide, which answers many of the questions asked- is usually posted in one of the first few replies.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

This is a difficult area to mod, because it can be a grey area, depending on intent.

To walk the line, modding wise, between allowing people a say (even if they disagree with the Op), and pointing out what could be illegal intent/ miss-use of a tourist visa, and helping those who genuinely have cause to AOS can be hard, and those reports are often debated muchly amongst the mods before we moderate the thread (or not moderate, as the case may be). What usually happens is that some posts are removed and maybe an in-thread warning to cool it given, or a verbal warning to the worst offenders in a thread(ie a note on their profiel, but without a suspension unless they seriously breached the TOS), and if that does not stop the bickering, we close the thread- especially as the link to our Guide, which answers many of the questions asked- is usually posted in one of the first few replies.

.

I think it's a very difficult area to mod or judge. The law allows it if it was not the intent, yet intent is easy to disguise in many cases. Some people are honest about it, others aren't. It is hard to prove intent.

[ValerieA 350]

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I think it's a very difficult area to mod or judge. The law allows it if it was not the intent, yet intent is easy to disguise in many cases. Some people are honest about it, others aren't. It is hard to prove intent.

But it is allowed whether or not there was intent - which is often where a thread gets derailed. We end up explaining the same thing, over and over and over, thread after thread. I try to report posts that have nothing to do with the OP's questions, but I am not often on VJ these days. I have found the mods to be very responsive at those times, though, which is much appreciated.

Two things I'd like to see - first, renaming the two AOS forums so people don't post in the wrong one. I think that would cut out a substantial portion. Secondly, repeat offenders should be forum-banned. There are certain people who do like proselytizing in the AOS from non-family based visas on occasion. I think if there were a certain number of reports, that resulted in their comment being deleted, they should be banned temporarily, then permanently, from the forum.