Spotting Fraud Before the Marriage

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Where there is a doubt - there is no doubt.

You would not need warning signs if you think like this.

[juliava 80]

An open communication with your fiancee/spouse is the key here. A simple stranger can't tell you if she is using you or not.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I'm sorry but that's just BS.

It may be BS for you, but it ain't BS for my wife and me. I don't trust my wife 100% and she just recently told me that if there's anything she's sure of with me, it's that I wouldn't cheat on her. Guess she knows me better than you do . . .

[Rob and Jill 82]

It may be BS for you, but it ain't BS for my wife and me. I don't trust my wife 100% and she just recently told me that if there's anything she's sure of with me, it's that I wouldn't cheat on her. Guess she knows me better than you do . . .

It's because people don't realize that cheating is 99.9% of the time based on unhappiness. People cheat because something in a relationship is not right and won't be right because the people in it won't fix it. Therefore it is easy for someone to sit back and say "you can't guarantee that".

However, when people in a marriage or relationship actually WORK at making each other happy and caring about the other person as much if not more than yourself, all thoughts of cheating fly straight out the window.

I agree Bob. When you know-You know. I would put money on it Rob wouldn't cheat on me if I paid HIM to do it and vice versa

[Cheyemo 8]

But the OP was talking about fraud, not cheating per se. I think that with relationships with people from high fraud locations, you may be completely in love but still keep your eyes open. Not believing that you are being played but not being blindly in love either. Its healthy to ask those questions especially when you hear of so much fraud. One common sign that nobody mentioned yet is asking for money all the time and never paying for anything in the relationship.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Cheyemo

[justashooter 430]

It's because people don't realize that cheating is 99.9% of the time based on unhappiness. People cheat because something in a relationship is not right and won't be right because the people in it won't fix it.

cheating is 99% a failure of ego. that is to say, that the person who cheats cannot control their Id, and are deficient in terms of super-ego. in short, they are immature.

if there is something wrong with their current relationship, cheating is nto going to fix that. chances are, the cheater is more responsible for the problem than the person they cheat on.

if a cheater "relationship-hops" they are not going to get away from the problem, because they are the problem. they will just drag their old ####### into the new relationship by transferrence, and repeat the cycle.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Just a reminder, the only relationship you are qualified to pass judgment on is your own so please do not make disparaging comments about statements others make about the trustworthiness of their marriage and marriage partners.

[DanielParul 50]

It's because people don't realize that cheating is 99.9% of the time based on unhappiness. People cheat because something in a relationship is not right and won't be right because the people in it won't fix it. Therefore it is easy for someone to sit back and say "you can't guarantee that".

However, when people in a marriage or relationship actually WORK at making each other happy and caring about the other person as much if not more than yourself, all thoughts of cheating fly straight out the window.

I agree Bob. When you know-You know. I would put money on it Rob wouldn't cheat on me if I paid HIM to do it and vice versa

Agree as usual with Rob and Jill

[Kiv 32]

There is no sure fire way to know. If there was then nobody would ever get scammed.

Red flags include repeatedly lying to you, frequently having an excuse for not being able to talk/chat/spend time with you, sudden changes in attitude or behavior after "milestones" (like getting a petition approval), sneaking off and leaving you alone when you come to visit. Of course, there can be perfectly reasonable explanations for these things, as well.

If it doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't. If you really want to test it, tell them you've decided you've had it with the US government, you're going to abandon the petition, and you're going to move to their country to be with them. Their response should tell you what you need to know.

I guess you can try to "test" your partner, but if you go playing these games, it may not end as you like.

If my husband had agreed on moving with me I would be very happy, not to be hypocrite, I lived in the border and for me that would have been the chance to have it all.

My family, my friends, my job, my love.

A test like this can really tell the other person that you do not trust him/her just be careful on how you do this, you may hurt the person you love.

If you behave like if your status and the chance to bring a person to this country is the best thing you can apport to the relationship, then maybe it is.

At the end you are responsible for what you do, nobody can know what others will do.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Kathryn has a point. We're drifting a bit away from a fake marriage to being unfaithful. How did that happen?

Jim made a good point, and it works best before the "imported" finance arrives on US shores. Tell your finance that you are dreading the US Government and its annoying and nerve-wrecking paperwork and seriously consider moving to their country. Your finance's response will tell you a lot.

Of course, if your fiance lives in a country to has been impoverished by war and droughts and child starvation, you finance may still want to suggest that living in the US may be better. Even so, playing a bluff can really reveal many things.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

It may be BS for you, but it ain't BS for my wife and me. I don't trust my wife 100% and she just recently told me that if there's anything she's sure of with me, it's that I wouldn't cheat on her. Guess she knows me better than you do . . .

You just happened to make the comment, Bob. It was not directed at your relationship.

Trust is a fabulous thing. I've got it in my marriage. I just don't believe that any couple can say with 100 percent certainty what will happen in the future. Life is too unpredictable.

Call it jaded but that's how I feel.

It's because people don't realize that cheating is 99.9% of the time based on unhappiness. People cheat because something in a relationship is not right and won't be right because the people in it won't fix it. Therefore it is easy for someone to sit back and say "you can't guarantee that".

However, when people in a marriage or relationship actually WORK at making each other happy and caring about the other person as much if not more than yourself, all thoughts of cheating fly straight out the window.

I agree Bob. When you know-You know. I would put money on it Rob wouldn't cheat on me if I paid HIM to do it and vice versa

You can't always fix stuff, Jill. Nobody has control over everything that happens to them in their lifetime.

Just a reminder, the only relationship you are qualified to pass judgment on is your own so please do not make disparaging comments about statements others make about the trustworthiness of their marriage and marriage partners.

Relax, Kathryn. I was away from the PC for a while. Looks like there was some serious conclusion jumping going on.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I guess you can try to "test" your partner, but if you go playing these games, it may not end as you like.

If my husband had agreed on moving with me I would be very happy, not to be hypocrite, I lived in the border and for me that would have been the chance to have it all.

My family, my friends, my job, my love.

A test like this can really tell the other person that you do not trust him/her just be careful on how you do this, you may hurt the person you love.

If you behave like if your status and the chance to bring a person to this country is the best thing you can apport to the relationship, then maybe it is.

At the end you are responsible for what you do, nobody can know what others will do.

Almost everyone who has gotten romantically involved with someone from a high fraud country has wondered, at some point, if they were being scammed. Anyone who has never had those doubts is not capable of thinking rationally, and is being led entirely by their emotions or their lust. These doubts happen early in a relationship, before you know your partner very well, and when it's normal to test each other. This is a time when you ask questions like "Why did you get divorced from your previous spouse?". When someone asks this question, you know darn well what they're trying to find out - are you a piece of ####### who treated your previous spouse badly, and will likely treat them badly as well. You don't explicitly declare that these questions are tests, but that is essentially what they are. You're sizing each other up to see if you are compatible with each other.

As far as saying you'll move to their country, it's distinctly possible they'll know you're testing them. Unless they're extremely naive, they probably know darn well that they live in a country with a high rate of visa fraud, and know that you may have some doubts about their sincerity. Unless you're particularly ham fisted in the way you approach this, it's unlikely they'll be offended by it, even if they realize it's a test.

If the relationship lasts, these sort of tests eventually give way to open conversations about fraudulent relationships. You can't seriously prepare to be successful in getting a visa at a US consulate in one of these countries if you don't have these conversations. By this point in the relationship, you'll be confident you're not being scammed, and will be focused primarily on how to convince a consular officer of the same.

[ms_jinga_lala 0]

Reply...to everyone lol

Otto and Karin - I ask because something is not right and I'm trying to figure out if I should be concerned about fraud or if this kind of thing could be normal given the situation me and my fiance are in. I was married for 14 years before and was knowingly blind to too many things for all the wrong reasons. I don't want to make that mistake again.

djeslinger - Interesting point....I have trust issues it's very difficult for me to let go of some things. I know what I saw and felt for the first 2 years we were together, but now I'm starting to question some things and some things have drastically changed. I'm trying to figure it out....and yes...I do think too much sometimes.

JimVaPhuong - good plan, I'm going to think how to put that into motion. I don't want to destroy his self esteem and make him think I don't care so I'm going to work this one out. Thank you so much for the idea. The only thing is in the beginning we were talking about me moving to India and he was somewhat reluctant to come here. He barely even leaves his city so didn't think I would ever be asking questions like this.

Vanessa&Tony - there is a lot of depression happening since his visa was denied (big messy drama) the end of January and now we are awaiting reaffirmation. He has not been well since then and I'm not sure if he's going through normal emotions and stress or if something else is going on.

sachinky - after the January mess he got despondent, started drinking and for a while he would say multiple times in every conversation that he wanted me to get him out of India and to the US, not in the context of just wanting a visa, it was more of a despair and he also said a lot he just needed to be with me. Then after a while he started wanting us to both go to any other country that would be easier for immigration so we could get married and he wouldn't have to suffer the same abuse he went through at Delhi last time again. He still gets upset and sad every time the embassy comes up. He's stopped all of that now and was very distant for a while (but he had also started a new job in March that was very stressful for him).

Darnell - that is exactly what made me ask this question. I am a trained and educated investigator. Before I ever started talking to him the first time I had his full name (which is not what he chatted under), his parents names and cell phone numbers, his home number, his address, a list of his degrees and a bit more information. He knows all about it (I told him months later lol) and he knows I still do these things. It was never an issue until last month. I even went through his cell and busted him on something when I visited him in India and he didn't get as upset as when I went through his email last month. I have yet to get a straight answer about what I found and I've tried talking to him about it a few times.

sara - Thank you for your thoughts. I'm sorry about what happened to you. He's not avoiding me thankfully. I do sometimes catch him in small lies that make no sense but he says it's so he doesn't upset me. They really are not big things and he doesn't do it that often. His biggest one yet was when he told me he wore his engagement ring every day but when I saw his pics he didn't have it on in any of them for months. He said he knew it was important to me and didn't want to hurt my feelings but he doesn't wear it unless he is going out somewhere. He said that rings there don't carry the same kind of significance as they do here.

mainyasha - true, the U.S. government has already ensure we are not getting married anytime soon. It will be at least another year.

kittyfang - somewhat I am thinking like that. I don't want to wind up in a similar trap like I wound up in the first time. I wasn't married for a GC but I was married to be a token. I'm not about being used. (A million dollars eh?.....hmm....I do have debts.....jk! )

Just Bob - ty, you are right two people can be faithful and know the other person will be faithful. I do not believe for one second that anyone is genetically predisposed to cheat or that all men cheat, etc. That's a lame a** excuse for people to be stupid. You are very lucky to find Mrs. Right and I wish only the best for you both treating each other well for the rest of your lives.

Nartaki - ty, point taken. I'm just trying to get a heads up if my fiance is a good liar or not. To be honest, he hasn't proved to be so far, but as with any relationship it is a learning experience. I'm getting my education as early as possible.

Bobby+Umit - For most things I would agree but there are so many gray areas in life I just want to be certain. I'm not sure if the doubts are legitimate or not due to my own personal issues.

juliava - you are right, but I've also learned in life you should always seek the advice of others because they may know something you don't

Cheyemo - very good advice. You should always keep your eyes open. Love does not keep people from doing bad things. He never asks me for money and never has. I do feel like I put more effort into the relationship than he does, but I'm not sure that is accurate lol...

Kathryn - Thank you!! You are right, if I don't know for sure with all the details I have then no one else can decide for me with less info. I'm just trying to get some advice from objective people so I can determine on my own what issues need to be addressed. Again Thank You!

Kiv - Thankfully I have a lot to offer the relationship. The GC is a major challenge and is very difficult and I can say for sure he is not marrying me for my money lol.

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate even the negative ones.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

and he wouldn't have to suffer the same abuse he went through at Delhi last time again. He still gets upset and sad every time the embassy comes up. He's stopped all of that now and was very distant for a while (but he had also started a new job in March that was very stressful for him).

This may be the root of everything. The embassy crushed his hopes in life. The following may sound overly simplistic, but men can react to stress by holding things inside (and withdrawing), and when this happens, the pressure & pain (the inner torment) can squeeze out in any number of bizarre or inappropriate ways. The new job may also be a factor. I respectfully suggest getting him to open up exhaustively about the treatment that he received at the embassy until there's a catharsis; after that, the path toward reconciliation or at least a more frank mutual understanding may be clearer.

Offered as a guy and as a guy who was abused by his (purportedly) "own" consulate.

Afterthought: If you don't want to try directly, suggest it by saying something like "Another guy who's involved in the immigration process was also abused by a consulate -- and he's the U.S. citizen. He went through [state some of his own behaviors] and now thinks [restate the first paragraph in your own words]. What are your thoughts about that?"

Not a shrink; not presuming anything or acting presumptuously; just trying to help by suggesting a theory & an approach to it, si man.

Edited May 15, 2010 by TBoneTX

[sachinky 464]

I'm sorry this is happening to you, dear.

We're talking about your particular case so I am going to agree with Tbone here.

I can't even begin to tell you how much stress this immigration nonsense wrecked on not only our relationship and marriage but also my own health and sanity. I became a version of myself I could hardly recognize. We have a great relationship, we trust each other fully -- no reason not to -- we talk for hours everyday. But STILL. I cried, I nagged, I threw enormous temper tantrums. I even accused him of not trying hard enough and pulled out the classic "if you loved me." I'm ashamed of my behavior and have profusely apologized for it. He understands. He doesn't think it's because of the GC, or that I was desperate to get to the U.S. There is no reason to. I could've stayed in the U.S. without marrying him. I simply want to be with him. And I'm sure as you know, the time difference is royal PITA and compounds matters. I can't even imagine how it would feel to be denied after waiting all this while.

If you're going to fight this, both of you need to keep your chin up. Keep communicating. Have you thought about moving here on a temporary basis while you wait this process out?

Now I don't know much about the background particulars of your case/relationship but in general the red flags I think are usually the beneficiary proposing after a short online courtship, massive difference in age, socio-economic status, education levels. Unfortunately, it doesn't help if you're coming from a high fraud country.