My husband has been having 2 online affairs -

[*Robert* 2]

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I agree. It sounds like it's time for a long sit down talk, and relly dig into all that has been going on, all that you are feeling, and ask him all the tough questions you have been asking on VJ. Your husband needs to come clean, and decide exactly what he wants as well. It will take BOTH of you for the marriage to work. It won't work just because ONE of you wants it too.

Good luck.

[betrayed 0]

Ling Ling's perspective makes good sense. I am wondering if he has lots of time on his hands with nothing much to do? The only serious red flag is his wish to return alone to Peru for an extended period of time. Without that, online flirtation isn't much different than married people flirting at work and THAT'S been around for a long time.

Now he's working so I'm hoping that he stops being an idiota. We'll see.

Yep, this is a serious red flag about wishing to return to Peru alone for an extended period of time. Don't think that he'll be doing that if he wants to stay married...

No! You misunderstood me. HE is not being contrite if this is how he excused his behaviour. You have every right for being very angry, in fact, if I were in your shoes, rather than forgive at this time, I would be certain to let him know where your boundaries are and what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

Oh, whoops! He has apologized for it, many times. But it's not enough right now really yet. I've been very clear about what my expecations are now; no communication with strange girls. No fake pages, no fake emails. We'll see if he can do what he says.

Boredom and not much to do, or no work permission is not an excuse for violating one's oath to respect one's spouse. There are lots of organizations that would appreciate two hands and a willing mind to help out, if he has too much time on his hands.

He's got a job now, so I'm hoping that he no longers wants to sit around and be dumb. I gave him a lot of, "Do you know what it means to be married, to swear in front of god and my friends and family that you were going to be faithful to me?" Yeah, it was fun. Not. He wasn't ready to admit truth until I pulled out a name.

[betrayed 0]

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I agree. It sounds like it's time for a long sit down talk, and relly dig into all that has been going on, all that you are feeling, and ask him all the tough questions you have been asking on VJ. Your husband needs to come clean, and decide exactly what he wants as well. It will take BOTH of you for the marriage to work. It won't work just because ONE of you wants it too.

Good luck.

We've already done the long sit down talk. I've told him how I've felt. He's told me that he wants to be with me and that it's real. He swears to me that he wants his life here with me and with no one else.

I've asked him if there was any doubt in his heart at all... he said no. I asked him if he wanted to go home to be with one of those girls, he said no. It's all been said. Now I'm just dealing with the aftermath of all of this. Trying to figure out if I can really hack this.

[*Robert* 2]

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I agree. It sounds like it's time for a long sit down talk, and relly dig into all that has been going on, all that you are feeling, and ask him all the tough questions you have been asking on VJ. Your husband needs to come clean, and decide exactly what he wants as well. It will take BOTH of you for the marriage to work. It won't work just because ONE of you wants it too.

Good luck.

We've already done the long sit down talk. I've told him how I've felt. He's told me that he wants to be with me and that it's real. He swears to me that he wants his life here with me and with no one else.

I've asked him if there was any doubt in his heart at all... he said no. I asked him if he wanted to go home to be with one of those girls, he said no. It's all been said. Now I'm just dealing with the aftermath of all of this. Trying to figure out if I can really hack this.

That's a good start. Now it is up to you whether or not you truly believe him. Is he willing to get off the computer and flirting with other women online? That is a MUST. He can NOT continue that behavior.

[TBoneTX 43,327]

Yes, he's a very handsome man, and no, I've never really considered him a macho guy... I know that it's common in Peru...

Aha -- my now-wife told me, early, that EVERY guy in Ecuador is a macho, to some extent. I noted this but didn't believe it until I saw it first-hand. Out of more than two dozen natives, it was true -- every last one fit her description.

I was so shocked that, during our "drag your U.S. ####### down to the consulate for your Stokes interrogation with an Ecuadorian employee" K-1 interview, I nearly obliterated the Plexiglass and throttled the jerk when he said, "pockets of macho behavior still exist here & there in Ecuador." POCKETS?! HERE & THERE?! (I'm still livid.)

The reason that I relate that anecdote is because Colombia & Peru are supposed to be even worse than Ecuador. This is NATURAL BEHAVIOR there -- objectionable, and 100% alien to us in the U.S., but ENDEMIC down there. Perhaps try to view his recent actions on a grand scale (has he beaten you? committed open adultery? ordered you to stay home? demanded every detail of every minute of your doings/whereabouts? punished you if you dared to take a night to be with your amigas instead of doing housework and serving his every need?)... and definitely watch to see how (and how much) he reforms himself. Remember that he comes from a male culture very, very different from ours.

If he has told his sister, even generally so, that's a GOOD sign.

I know that the boredom that he experienced here while he was unable to work was pretty overwhelming. He was going crazy

For ANY guy -- U.S. native or foreign macho -- trust me: It's MORE than "pretty" overwhelming. Not being able to work is like having one's soul & self ripped from us.

He could have talked to his guy friends. I'm sure that some of it was just culture shock, but it's still been crazy.

Women talk; guys act.

He was like, "Oh everybody in Peru is in love with someone online." Blah blah blah. Such bs. I don't care what goes on in Peru, we're in America buddy. People in America have online affairs all the time and people get divorced too. And he expected to go back to Peru and hang out with them?! Disgusting. Sorry. I'll stop being angry now.

Sounds as though he was defending his "defense mechanism against the culture shock." However, you're right, and perhaps he needed or needs to be hit between the eyes with the cultural norms HERE.

He did have a very active social life in Peru with his guy friends.

And he was therefore exposed constantly to the prevailing male attitudes down there.

He didn't have that many girlfriends, to my knowledge anyway. Just a few. Several long term.

This is an EXCELLENT pattern of previous behavior.

Hell, for all I know, he's slept with a billion girls. That's about how well I feel that I know him right now.

What's past is past ("remember, we are judged on our past; therefore, be careful what you DO in your past"). Now, you know better than anyone whether he deserves gentle counseling about expected behaviors here, a kick in the "culo," or a combination thereof.

Yep, first time in the US. I know that there's an adjustment period to just being here and I knew that it would be hard, but I never expected him to have relationships with other women online. We had that kind of a relationship for a long time; the phone and email. It was all we had when I was here and he was there. To me that's part of what makes it so foul, ya know? THAT WAS ME too once. Waiting and wishing and pining for him... Until I could see him again.

Maybe because it was all you had, and you had it for so long, and he gave up his entire life down there FOR YOU, he's resorted to it not to "cheat online" on you, but as an action (largely independent of anyone on the other end) that recalls what he had with you. If he deleted his online account promptly when you confronted him, maybe that account was more of a coping mechanism than a vehicle for cheating.

Lest anyone misunderstand: I am not (NOT NOT NOT) excusing this man's behavior or suggesting that you do so. Only you can decide what is appropriate. I merely suggest some general considerations that can affect men in general or machos in particular. Communication between the two of you is the key. Original poster, please let me know if any of the above is good food for thought or is out of line. Si, man.

[youtube 0]

We all like to see the best in people but if you are already married and he's out partying, he has showed his true stripes.

I think you're too forgiving.

you should make him prove it. prove that he is sincere.

you can figure a way.

if you keep groveling to him, he'll play you like a fool.

when the cops catch a criminal, do you think that was his first offense? No, it's the first time he got caught.

If you happened to catch him this time, do you think it was his first?

Good luck, hope the best for you

[Old Dominion 26]

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I agree. It sounds like it's time for a long sit down talk, and relly dig into all that has been going on, all that you are feeling, and ask him all the tough questions you have been asking on VJ. Your husband needs to come clean, and decide exactly what he wants as well. It will take BOTH of you for the marriage to work. It won't work just because ONE of you wants it too.

Good luck.

We've already done the long sit down talk. I've told him how I've felt. He's told me that he wants to be with me and that it's real. He swears to me that he wants his life here with me and with no one else.

I've asked him if there was any doubt in his heart at all... he said no. I asked him if he wanted to go home to be with one of those girls, he said no. It's all been said. Now I'm just dealing with the aftermath of all of this. Trying to figure out if I can really hack this.

Whether you can live with this is a decision only you can make -- but at least talk with a trained counselor by yourself to help you get your thoughts straight. For example, will you be thinking that he is flirting at the workplace now? Can you handle that suspicion? Good luck and happy New Year!

[betrayed 0]

That's a good start. Now it is up to you whether or not you truly believe him. Is he willing to get off the computer and flirting with other women online? That is a MUST. He can NOT continue that behavior.

He says yes, he's willing to stop with the flirting online. He deleted the profile and the second account with me in front of the computer. It's all gone.

TBoneTX, my responses to you are in your post below in blue.

Yes, he's a very handsome man, and no, I've never really considered him a macho guy... I know that it's common in Peru...

Aha -- my now-wife told me, early, that EVERY guy in Ecuador is a macho, to some extent. I noted this but didn't believe it until I saw it first-hand. Out of more than two dozen natives, it was true -- every last one fit her description.

I know that there's a part of him, to be sure, that is slightly macho. But it's in my mind more of an American machoness, ya know? He's not out of control with me in any way.

I was so shocked that, during our "drag your U.S. ####### down to the consulate for your Stokes interrogation with an Ecuadorian employee" K-1 interview, I nearly obliterated the Plexiglass and throttled the jerk when he said, "pockets of macho behavior still exist here & there in Ecuador." POCKETS?! HERE & THERE?! (I'm still livid.)

The reason that I relate that anecdote is because Colombia & Peru are supposed to be even worse than Ecuador. This is NATURAL BEHAVIOR there -- objectionable, and 100% alien to us in the U.S., but ENDEMIC down there. Perhaps try to view his recent actions on a grand scale (has he beaten you? committed open adultery? ordered you to stay home? demanded every detail of every minute of your doings/whereabouts? punished you if you dared to take a night to be with your amigas instead of doing housework and serving his every need?)... and definitely watch to see how (and how much) he reforms himself. Remember that he comes from a male culture very, very different from ours.

I know that it is a natural behavior down there and accepted. But he knows what my expectations are, and were... On the grand scale, there has been no transgression: no beating, no open adultery, no ordering to stay home, etc. He has been jealous of my job a few times and been annoyed at my taking a night out with mis amigas, no doubt. I am going to watch to see how he reforms himself. I'm thinking that he'll need to pay for the counseling that I'm probably going to propose.

If he has told his sister, even generally so, that's a GOOD sign.

Like I said, it was in pretty general terms. He told her that everything is ok, which it really isn't yet. She demanded to talk to me to see if I was ok. But yes, it was a requirement of my getting over this. It's not just a good sign, I told him that he had to do it in order to make things work.

I know that the boredom that he experienced here while he was unable to work was pretty overwhelming. He was going crazy

For ANY guy -- U.S. native or foreign macho -- trust me: It's MORE than "pretty" overwhelming. Not being able to work is like having one's soul & self ripped from us.

I'm very aware of this. It was awful for me when I was living there. No real friends to speak of beyond his family, no job. Sitting on my butt waiting for him to come home from work. I know exactly how he felt.

He was like, "Oh everybody in Peru is in love with someone online." Blah blah blah. Such bs. I don't care what goes on in Peru, we're in America buddy. People in America have online affairs all the time and people get divorced too. And he expected to go back to Peru and hang out with them?! Disgusting. Sorry. I'll stop being angry now.

Sounds as though he was defending his "defense mechanism against the culture shock." However, you're right, and perhaps he needed or needs to be hit between the eyes with the cultural norms HERE.

Yep, I was very glad to tell him of this too.

He did have a very active social life in Peru with his guy friends.

And he was therefore exposed constantly to the prevailing male attitudes down there.

He didn't have that many girlfriends, to my knowledge anyway. Just a few. Several long term.

This is an EXCELLENT pattern of previous behavior.

True, bad exposures to bad behaviors in another culture. I know. I'm working on absorbing all of this. These are things that I know. I've traveled a bunch, I speak Spanish daily. I work with Latinos. Knowing all of these things doesn't make it easier to accept that it's happening to me. Yes, I agree that his previous pattern of behavior is good.

Yep, first time in the US. I know that there's an adjustment period to just being here and I knew that it would be hard, but I never expected him to have relationships with other women online. We had that kind of a relationship for a long time; the phone and email. It was all we had when I was here and he was there. To me that's part of what makes it so foul, ya know? THAT WAS ME too once. Waiting and wishing and pining for him... Until I could see him again.

Maybe because it was all you had, and you had it for so long, and he gave up his entire life down there FOR YOU, he's resorted to it not to "cheat online" on you, but as an action (largely independent of anyone on the other end) that recalls what he had with you. If he deleted his online account promptly when you confronted him, maybe that account was more of a coping mechanism than a vehicle for cheating.

I've actually thought of that too... that it was something that he missed from his relationship with me. But he should have been sending the emails to me, not them. Yes, it was deleted when I confronted him. We'll see if he doesn't create a new one. Right now I'm still pretty skeptical.

Lest anyone misunderstand: I am not (NOT NOT NOT) excusing this man's behavior or suggesting that you do so. Only you can decide what is appropriate. I merely suggest some general considerations that can affect men in general or machos in particular. Communication between the two of you is the key. Original poster, please let me know if any of the above is good food for thought or is out of line. Si, man.

Thanks so much for all of your time with this. I've sincerely appreciated all of the reminders. I will decide what is going to happen soon enough. Right now we're staying together and living together. We're sleeping in the same bed. I'm working on forgiving him, but if he does it again, all bets are off...

[betrayed 0]

We all like to see the best in people but if you are already married and he's out partying, he has showed his true stripes.

I think you're too forgiving.

you should make him prove it. prove that he is sincere.

you can figure a way.

if you keep groveling to him, he'll play you like a fool.

when the cops catch a criminal, do you think that was his first offense? No, it's the first time he got caught.

If you happened to catch him this time, do you think it was his first?

Good luck, hope the best for you

He's not out partying... ?

I'm certainly not groveling to him; where did you get that idea?? I told him to leave if that was what he wanted.

It may be the first time that he got caught. Believe me, if he gets caught again, it's over.

Whether you can live with this is a decision only you can make -- but at least talk with a trained counselor by yourself to help you get your thoughts straight. For example, will you be thinking that he is flirting at the workplace now? Can you handle that suspicion? Good luck and happy New Year!

I am thinking that a counselor would indeed be a good idea. And by myself, nope, that is going to be a trip that we make together. Nope, not even thinking about the flirting at work right now. They've all met his wife, me. Not suspicious about that one bit, admittedly.

Happy New Year to you too.

[sereia 0]

I can't believe all the excuses people are posting here!!! There is no excuse for what this guy did to his wife! So he didn't have a job and was bored? How about taking up a real hobby? Ever heard of a book? What if he gets fired from this job? Or is out with an injury or illness? Are you going to freak out and wonder then too?

Look, only you know when you've had enough (like Nagi said...) but if it were me in your shoes? He'd be out the freaking door. Do you have kids together? Major co-mingled finances? If not, I would be done with him! How can you possibly trust him again? All the things you've said he says is such BS! Do you really buy into all that?

If you were to stay in this relationship I would suggest getting that program I've heard people talk about on VJ that tracks all activity online so you can snoop. Which I normally don't believe in...but how can you possibly trust him after what he's done?

Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Sheherazade

[Ling Ling 22]

With regard to counselling...

NOTE- I am not a religious person. I do not attend any church, temple or mosque. However, I do feel that I'm a spiritual person.

In my experience and the experiences others have shared with me, clinical counseling is the start of a path to divorce.

Clinical counselors tend to be very cold, and have a desire to place blame one or both parties for different issues.

These type of counselors too often try to figure out who is right and who is wrong (although clearly your husband is wrong in this instance).

The reason I advocate religious counseling (for religious people) is because the pastor/priest/rabbi/etc. has seen you when you're happy,

and is more interested in saving the marriage than placing blame. Not to say that he/she won't let your spouse know that they've fcuked up.

The religious counselor will also be able to pull from and build on the faith that you carry each day, in order to help you through resolution

if possible, or separation if warranted.

I agree that his telling his sister was a good sign, but his prior requests to go to Peru for extended lengths of time alone, is a pretty condemning sign,

and something that should be discussed.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

In my experience and the experiences others have shared with me, clinical counseling is the start of a path to divorce.

Clinical counselors tend to be very cold, and have a desire to place blame one or both parties for different issues.

These type of counselors too often try to figure out who is right and who is wrong (although clearly your husband is wrong in this instance).

Have you had much experience with "clinical counselors"? The above comment doesn't seem to paint them in a very good light.

Edited January 1, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[Ling Ling 22]

I can't believe all the excuses people are posting here!!! There is no excuse for what this guy did to his wife! So he didn't have a job and was bored? How about taking up a real hobby? Ever heard of a book? What if he gets fired from this job? Or is out with an injury or illness? Are you going to freak out and wonder then too?

Look, only you know when you've had enough (like Nagi said...) but if it were me in your shoes? He'd be out the freaking door. Do you have kids together? Major co-mingled finances? If not, I would be done with him! How can you possibly trust him again? All the things you've said he says is such BS! Do you really buy into all that?

If you were to stay in this relationship I would suggest getting that program I've heard people talk about on VJ that tracks all activity online so you can snoop. Which I normally don't believe in...but how can you possibly trust him after what he's done?

Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.

I agree with you that there's absolutely no excuse for what this guy has done.

But thinking that he can never be trusted again is a bit extreme.

It's easy to love someone that always does the right things...but if you can forgive someone that's real love.

Some people will take your forgiving them as weakness, and continue with their deceit.

But some will realize that being forgiven shows your strength, and it will give them strength to avoid deceit.

Boredom may be his excuse, but it's not the reason he cheated. Find out the reason, find out why he thought it was OK,

and find out why you should believe it won't happen again.

[Ling Ling 22]

In my experience and the experiences others have shared with me, clinical counseling is the start of a path to divorce.

Clinical counselors tend to be very cold, and have a desire to place blame one or both parties for different issues.

These type of counselors too often try to figure out who is right and who is wrong (although clearly your husband is wrong in this instance).

Have you had much experience with "clinical counselors"? The above comment doesn't seem to paint them in a very good light.

I have well educated friends who are counselors, psychiatrist and psychologists, and I've been to couples counseling before...which was like an accelerant to breaking up. I'm not a hippie that doesn't believe in medicine, or lawyers, but I'm a realist that knows to many practitioners, you're just a file number.

I've heard far too many divorced friends say, "We tried everything, we even went to counseling".

[sereia 0]

I agree with you that there's absolutely no excuse for what this guy has done.

But thinking that he can never be trusted again is a bit extreme.

It's easy to love someone that always does the right things...but if you can forgive someone that's real love.

Some people will take your forgiving them as weakness, and continue with their deceit.

But some will realize that being forgiven shows your strength, and it will give them strength to avoid deceit.

Boredom may be his excuse, but it's not the reason he cheated. Find out the reason, find out why he thought it was OK,

and find out why you should believe it won't happen again.

I didn't say specifically her husband can never be trusted again.......but how? I lost complete trust in my ex after forgiving him time and time again for his lies. Eventually I just never could get past them... I never trusted a word out of his mouth after a while!

I worry her husband will take her forgiveness as a weakness............