Marital union requirements (split)

[Peli88 13]

USCIS is full of (removed)! 

What if the husband(USC) is an OTR driver and lives for many nights in his truck or attends a correctional officer academy for 3 months in another state? 

What if the wife(GC holder) goes to her own country for 3 months to deal with all kinds of issues and the husband(USC) can't/does not want to travel with her (Covid/work/etc) ?

Marital union does not mean to live every day under the same roof. It also does not mean that the husband and wife can't have their own plans or time apart.

The best thing is to sue the rednecks if you have the law on your side!

Edited November 8, 2022 by Ontarkie
by-passing language filter

[OldUser 5,065]

@Peli88 just apply under 5 year rule and you wouldn't have to deal with all of that.

 

The rules are the rules. Read section D of the policy:

 

"

In addition, some spousal naturalization provisions require that the applicant “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the naturalization application. [19] USCIS considers an applicant to “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse if the applicant and the citizen actually reside together.

An applicant does not meet the married and “living in marital union” requirements if:

- The applicant is not residing with his or her U.S. citizen spouse at the time of filing or during the time in which the applicant is required to be living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse; or

- The marital relationship is terminated at any time prior to taking the Oath of Allegiance."

 

Whoever tries to naturalize under 3 year rule should keep these limitations in mind before applying for N-400.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by OldUser

[Peli88 13]

9 minutes ago, OldUser said:

@Peli88 just apply under 5 year rule and you wouldn't have to deal with all of that.

 

The rules are the rules. Read section D of the policy:

 

"

In addition, some spousal naturalization provisions require that the applicant “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the naturalization application. [19] USCIS considers an applicant to “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse if the applicant and the citizen actually reside together.

An applicant does not meet the married and “living in marital union” requirements if:

- The applicant is not residing with his or her U.S. citizen spouse at the time of filing or during the time in which the applicant is required to be living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse; or

- The marital relationship is terminated at any time prior to taking the Oath of Allegiance."

 

Whoever tries to naturalize under 3 year rule should keep these limitations in mind before applying for N-400.

 

 

 

This is not a good advice...

Residing means : have one's permanent home in a particular place.   It does not mean that if one member of the family is gone for a while, the couple does not reside together. His "permanent" (lol) home is still with his/her wife.

Please people, stand for your rights and for the law. Don't let USCIS mess up with you! Don't be afraid to sue them if you think you are right!

The immigrants are an important part of the society. You also have rights! You work hard to make a living in this expensive country and you need to be respected too! 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Peli88

[OldUser 5,065]

16 minutes ago, Peli88 said:

This is not a good advice...

Residing means : have one's permanent home in a particular place.   It does not mean that if one member of the family is gone for a while, the couple does not reside together. His "permanent" (lol) home is still with his/her wife.

Please people, stand for your rights and for the law. Don't let USCIS mess up with you! Don't be afraid to sue them if you think you are right!

The immigrants are an important part of the society. You also have rights! You work hard to make a living in this expensive country and you need to be respected too! 

The word actually can be interpreted in various ways. I think the USCIS interpret it to their benefit, e.g. they stress it has to be actually (literally) living together, not just having the same address / residency. Also, they mention involuntary separation:

 

"Involuntary Separation

Under very limited circumstances and where there is no indication of marital disunity, an applicant may be able to establish that he or she is living in marital union with his or her U.S. citizen spouse even though the applicant does not actually reside with citizen spouse. An applicant is not made ineligible for naturalization for not living in marital union if the separation is due to circumstances beyond his or her control, such as: [32] 

-Service in the U.S. armed forces; or

-Required travel or relocation for employment."

 

Travelling for 3 months is voluntary, because does not fall under examples given above.

 

So the rules are pretty clear and well defined. Whether this is fair or not, it's a different question.

Edited November 8, 2022 by OldUser

[Peli88 13]

"Informal separation. Any informal separation that suggests the possibility of marital disunity will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to determine whether it is sufficient enough to signify the dissolution of the marital union."

 

Being gone alone for 3 months those not mean that the couple does not reside at the same address or that they are separated. The IO can ask questions and the applicant should give valid answers on why he or she travelled alone. 

Do you see a marital disunity in every circumstance when a couple is not 24/7 together ?

Don't forget that during COVID, US citizens where not allowed to travel to Europe.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Peli88

[Peli88 13]

Informal Separation 

In many instances, spouses will separate without obtaining a judicial order altering the marital relationship or formalizing the separation. An applicant who is no longer actually residing with his or her U.S. citizen spouse following an informal separation is not living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse.

However, if the U.S. citizen spouse and the applicant continue to reside in the same household, an officer must determine on a case-by-case basis whether an informal separation before the filing of the naturalization application renders an applicant ineligible for naturalization as the spouse of a U.S. citizen. ^[30] Under these circumstances, an applicant is not living in marital union with a U.S. citizen spouse during any period of time in which the spouses are informally separated if such separation suggests the possibility of marital disunity.

Factors to consider in making this determination may include:

• The length of separation;

• Whether the applicant and his or her spouse continue to support each other and their children (if any) during the separation;

• Whether the spouses intend to separate permanently; and

• Whether either spouse becomes involved in a relationship with others during the separation. ^[31] 

Involuntary Separation

Under very limited circumstances and where there is no indication of marital disunity, an applicant may be able to establish that he or she is living in marital union with his or her U.S. citizen spouse even though the applicant does not actually reside with citizen spouse. An applicant is not made ineligible for naturalization for not living in marital union if the separation is due to circumstances beyond his or her control, such as: ^[32] 

• Service in the U.S. armed forces; or

• Required travel or relocation for employment.

[OldUser 5,065]

3 minutes ago, Peli88 said:

Informal Separation 

In many instances, spouses will separate without obtaining a judicial order altering the marital relationship or formalizing the separation. An applicant who is no longer actually residing with his or her U.S. citizen spouse following an informal separation is not living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse.

However, if the U.S. citizen spouse and the applicant continue to reside in the same household, an officer must determine on a case-by-case basis whether an informal separation before the filing of the naturalization application renders an applicant ineligible for naturalization as the spouse of a U.S. citizen. ^[30] Under these circumstances, an applicant is not living in marital union with a U.S. citizen spouse during any period of time in which the spouses are informally separated if such separation suggests the possibility of marital disunity.

Factors to consider in making this determination may include:

• The length of separation;

• Whether the applicant and his or her spouse continue to support each other and their children (if any) during the separation;

• Whether the spouses intend to separate permanently; and

• Whether either spouse becomes involved in a relationship with others during the separation. ^[31] 

Involuntary Separation

Under very limited circumstances and where there is no indication of marital disunity, an applicant may be able to establish that he or she is living in marital union with his or her U.S. citizen spouse even though the applicant does not actually reside with citizen spouse. An applicant is not made ineligible for naturalization for not living in marital union if the separation is due to circumstances beyond his or her control, such as: ^[32] 

• Service in the U.S. armed forces; or

• Required travel or relocation for employment.

You don't have to prove it to me, I'm not an IO deciding cases based on 3 year marriage rule.

 

Just make this point at the interview if IO wants to deny you and let us know how it goes.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 8, 2022 by OldUser

[Peli88 13]

If the couple is living in a marital union and there is not suggestion of any kind of marital disunity, certain circumstances are going to be analyzed by the IO.

My case : I've been married for 3 years,K1. We've been together for 13 years both in EU and US. We had the same bank account even before getting married and so many other things.

During my marriage, I travelled twice to EU. Once alone, for 3 months and the next year with my partner for 2 months. I travelled alone because my partner could not join-it was the Covid restriction. I also had to deal with legal paperwork in EU and I have proof of that. 

 

[Ontarkie 13,955]

~~Hijack posts and replies split off to their own thread. Please do not post questions about your own case in other member's threads.~~

[Mike E 11,726]

@Peli88 

 

Are you arguing a specific situation for your case or  is this a hypothetical  situation? 
 

[Peli88 13]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

@Peli88 

 

Are you arguing a specific situation for your case or  is this a hypothetical  situation? 
 

The example above is mine but i am also arguing the fact that every case is unique and the IO should not think that if a couple does not sleep under the same roof for 3 years continuously it means that they are not in a marital union.

[Mike E 11,726]

13 minutes ago, Peli88 said:

The example above is mine

I think you will have the challenge of proving your spouse  could not be with you for those 3 months.  
 

I had to leave the USA for 5 weeks in the midst of Covid and my country of birth allowed me to bring my foreign spouse with me. Hence we maintained continuous marital union.  

Quote

 

but i am also arguing the fact that every case is unique and the IO should not think that if a couple does not sleep under the same roof for 3 years continuously it means that they are not in a marital union.

In general I agree.  

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mike E

[Peli88 13]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I think you will have the challenge of proving your souse could not be with you for those 3 months.  
 

I have to leave the USA for 5 weeks in the midst of Covid and my country of birth allowed me to bring my foreign spouse with me. Hence we maintained continuous marital union.  

In general I agree.  

My country did not allow my US spouse to join me. And even if they did allow it, it is her decision to join me or not.

4 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I think you will have the challenge of proving your souse could not be with you for those 3 months.  
 

I have to leave the USA for 5 weeks in the midst of Covid and my country of birth allowed me to bring my foreign spouse with me. Hence we maintained continuous marital union.  

In general I agree.  

I ve also maintained mine.

[OldUser 5,065]

Just now, Peli88 said:

it is her decision to join me or not.

Thus the separation was voluntary.

1:0 in USCIS favor

[Mike E 11,726]

1 minute ago, Peli88 said:

My country did not allow my US spouse to join me.

If you can prove that and if you can prove the absence was necessary, cool.  

1 minute ago, Peli88 said:

And even if they did allow it, it is her decision to join me or not.

No point making a difficult argument if you can make it moot.  

1 minute ago, Peli88 said:

I ve also maintained mine.

TBD