This battle with the consulate!

[Family 3,483]

2 minutes ago, Family said:

he files the application from his end. What do you think? Put the application in motion whilst mine is in motion too?

Just add the father’s forms and proof of presence TO THE PACKET. It’s not a “separate motion “ or application, IT’s still one case BUT now TWO PARENTS and Father has no problem w presence ! 

[Depressed M 17]

2 minutes ago, Family said:

YES. YES YES

Your lawyer is giving me a headache!LOL! 

Believe me! The headache is shared lol. I am very grateful for them though. I filled the forms out with my mother initially and had my embassy friend look over them and she shook her head and told me to get a lawyer lol. I would have effed it right up! 
whats crazy is that my mother and i both worked in immigration for the UKBA so we thought we knew our sh!? But the bloody laws change weekly so it was hard to keep up 😩🤦‍♀️

[Depressed M 17]

2 minutes ago, Family said:

Just add the father’s forms and proof of presence TO THE PACKET. It’s not a “separate motion “ or application, IT’s still one case BUT now TWO PARENTS and Father has no problem w presence ! 

Got it! Thank you! 
thats all prepared and i will be sending off this packet today. Im actually going to do the courier service instead. I wish i could bring it there myself to be honest!

[Mike E 11,723]

4 hours ago, Boiler said:

i was heading in that direction and decided  it was not worth it as the issue is CRBA

 

My guess is she entered on an immigrant visa but just a guess.

 

4 hours ago, Lil bear said:

I agree but that creates greater confusion??? 

 

4 hours ago, Boiler said:

There is the father aspect but otherwise she has to evidence presence, for some reason that seems to be difficult.

 

4 hours ago, Lil bear said:

Yep. Im still confused .. USC or not ? 🥺

So piecing this together, I speculate that when she entered on her immigration visa the first time, her visa was not stamped by CBP by accident and there was no follow up with deferred inspection. She might never have been issued a green  card because CBP didn’t log in as a green card and/or because she didn’t pay the green card fee because she was going to be a citizen automatically upon proper endorsement.  
 

Then she left the USA. With no USA passport.  Her immigration visa was expired. When she wanted to return to the USA, she applied for a USA passport. The embassy realized the mistake, and so she was issued a returning resident visa and a sealed USA passport. The plan the embassy had was to have CBP at passport control stamp the returning resident visa (thus making her a USA citizen) and then CBP in customs open the customs packet, read a note from the embassy that explained what was going on, and then CBP in customs was to hand her the sealed passport. 
 

 I don’t know what happened at the passport booth in the mind of the CBP officer.   Perhaps there was a problem with dates on the returning resident visa.  Perhaps she was gone for less than a year and the CBP officer was going by the book and wasn’t going to admit her on that basis since that visa (aka SB-1) is only for absences of 1 or more years.  The officer instead wanted a Lincoln boarding foil and maybe made noises about sending her back to the UK to get one.  
 

Anyway, my guess is no one at POE was listening to her, she ripped the packet open in frustration,  a USA passport falls out, and CBP is stunned. Then CBP figures out what State’s plan was while she is waiting in secondary inspection, and screams at her for producing  a USA passport before they anointed her USA citizenship by stamping her returning resident visa and then formally unsealing the packet.  
 

Regardless in the end, they sorted  it, and she was logged as entered the USA on her USA passport.  And the visa obviously wasn’t stamped because she produced the USA passport before the visa was stamped (CBP don’t stamp a visa of a USA citizen). This is causing consternation at the embassy again and distracting it from the CRBA.  
 

Anyway that’s the best explanation I can think of.  
 

I agree that this should be pursued  by the father of the child and I will post a comment in reply to OP on that next. 

[Mike E 11,723]

15 hours ago, Depressed M said:

My son was born abroad as I got stuck in London and unexpectedly gave birth at home in my childhood bedroom in 2018

How many days after your son was born did you register the birth with appropriate UK authorities?

[Family 3,483]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Regardless in the end, they sorted  it, and she was logged as entered the USA on her USA passport.  And the visa obviously wasn’t stamped because she produced the USA passport before the visa was stamped (CBP don’t stamp a visa of a USA citizen). This is causing consternation at the embassy again and distracting it from the CRBA.  
 

Anyway that’s the best explanation I can think of.  
 

I agree that this should be pursued  by the father of the child and I will post a comment in reply to OP on that next. 

Wow!  That was an extraordinary explanation .Thank you 

[Family 3,483]

27 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I agree that this should be pursued  by the father of the child and I will post a comment in reply to OP on that next. 

Perhaps you could be kind enough to remind her that they will require Daddy to do DNA ( I pointed it out a bizzillion posts ago). Signing off

[Mike E 11,723]

1 minute ago, Family said:

Perhaps you could be kind enough to remind her that they will require Daddy to do DNA ( I pointed it out a bizzillion posts ago). Signing off

Agreed that this is likely but one has to get results when directed by the embassy or or State at labs prescribed by the same. 
 

@Depressed M I am curious though if this was a late registration of birth.  That was where I was going with my question.  

[Depressed M 17]

39 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

 

 

So piecing this together, I speculate that when she entered on her immigration visa the first time, her visa was not stamped by CBP by accident and there was no follow up with deferred inspection. She might never have been issued a green  card because CBP didn’t log in as a green card and/or because she didn’t pay the green card fee because she was going to be a citizen automatically upon proper endorsement.  
 

Then she left the USA. With no USA passport.  Her immigration visa was expired. When she wanted to return to the USA, she applied for a USA passport. The embassy realized the mistake, and so she was issued a returning resident visa and a sealed USA passport. The plan the embassy had was to have CBP at passport control stamp the returning resident visa (thus making her a USA citizen) and then CBP in customs open the customs packet, read a note from the embassy that explained what was going on, and then CBP in customs was to hand her the sealed passport. 
 

 I don’t know what happened at the passport booth in the mind of the CBP officer.   Perhaps there was a problem with dates on the returning resident visa.  Perhaps she was gone for less than a year and the CBP officer was going by the book and wasn’t going to admit her on that basis since that visa (aka SB-1) is only for absences of 1 or more years.  The officer instead wanted a Lincoln boarding foil and maybe made noises about sending her back to the UK to get one.  
 

Anyway, my guess is no one at POE was listening to her, she ripped the packet open in frustration,  a USA passport falls out, and CBP is stunned. Then CBP figures out what State’s plan was while she is waiting in secondary inspection, and screams at her for producing  a USA passport before they anointed her USA citizenship by stamping her returning resident visa and then formally unsealing the packet.  
 

Regardless in the end, they sorted  it, and she was logged as entered the USA on her USA passport.  And the visa obviously wasn’t stamped because she produced the USA passport before the visa was stamped (CBP don’t stamp a visa of a USA citizen). This is causing consternation at the embassy again and distracting it from the CRBA.  
 

Anyway that’s the best explanation I can think of.  
 

I agree that this should be pursued  by the father of the child and I will post a comment in reply to OP on that next. 

Thank you for your response. Thats a great explanation! 
definitely some insight into what may have been going on from the embassy’s side. 
i felt as though i was the puppet in the middle because i was just doing as i was told until i got scared and opened that envelope! 
my father told me i was issued a green card. Whether I actually was i am not sure of unless i ask him as he would have those documents. I just remember him calling me after school and telling me ive been given a green card so to come over and be issued my social security card. Whilst there we went to take passport photos and sent that passport application off whilst still in the US. I went back to UK as i was told the US embassy in london would be issuing my American passport. I dont know if thats how its supposed to go but thats how it went. 
when i went to pick up the passport i was taken into a private room and told that it was sealed in this envelope and not to open it. I was given paperwork and told to use this as my entry document. I never received a returning resident visa as there isnt one present in my UK passport. Once i arrived and was told the documents were not sufficient i got scared. I explained word for word what i was told at the embassy which is when the second officer approached. i didnt know what was going on and i told the officer the passport was in the envelope. He told me i need to produce it to go through. Thats when i ripped it open. Like you said nobody was listening to me at all. He handed it over and i was escorted to immigration. I wasnt searched or questioned i was just told to sit and wait. 
 

in response to your other question. My childs birth was registered 8 days after birth. 

21 minutes ago, Family said:

Perhaps you could be kind enough to remind her that they will require Daddy to do DNA ( I pointed it out a bizzillion posts ago). Signing off

I saw it. Thanks. 

[Depressed M 17]

17 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Agreed that this is likely but one has to get results when directed by the embassy or or State at labs prescribed by the same. 
 

@Depressed M I am curious though if this was a late registration of birth.  That was where I was going with my question.  

They haven't asked for him to do a dna test as of yet but thats no issue to do. 
i registered his birth 8 days later. That was the appointment i was given  

[Family 3,483]

Can  please do a G-639 FOIA for your USCIS file. It’s free and I am sure you’ll find some pieces to the puzzle. https://www.uscis.gov/records/request-records-through-the-freedom-of-information-act-or-privacy-act
 

It’s ok if you don’t know ur A#, just put in  UNK and give them your US  passport number and as much details as you can. Ask for your COMPLETE FILE ..

Perhaps an N-600 K may be in there. Good Luck 

[Depressed M 17]

36 minutes ago, Family said:

Can  please do a G-639 FOIA for your USCIS file. It’s free and I am sure you’ll find some pieces to the puzzle. https://www.uscis.gov/records/request-records-through-the-freedom-of-information-act-or-privacy-act
 

It’s ok if you don’t know ur A#, just put in  UNK and give them your US  passport number and as much details as you can. Ask for your COMPLETE FILE ..

Perhaps an N-600 K may be in there. Good Luck 

Thank you. I will get on to this now. 
my lawyer has already submitted the entry and exit records request with FOIA. We’ve been waiting on it since feb 9th 😩

i will put in this request also. I just dont want to add anymore time on to this UK stay 🥹

[Lil bear 3,831]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

 

 

 

So piecing this together, I speculate that when she entered on her immigration visa the first time, her visa was not stamped by CBP by accident and there was no follow up with deferred inspection. She might never have been issued a green  card because CBP didn’t log in as a green card and/or because she didn’t pay the green card fee because she was going to be a citizen automatically upon proper endorsement.  
 

Then she left the USA. With no USA passport.  Her immigration visa was expired. When she wanted to return to the USA, she applied for a USA passport. The embassy realized the mistake, and so she was issued a returning resident visa and a sealed USA passport. The plan the embassy had was to have CBP at passport control stamp the returning resident visa (thus making her a USA citizen) and then CBP in customs open the customs packet, read a note from the embassy that explained what was going on, and then CBP in customs was to hand her the sealed passport. 
 

 I don’t know what happened at the passport booth in the mind of the CBP officer.   Perhaps there was a problem with dates on the returning resident visa.  Perhaps she was gone for less than a year and the CBP officer was going by the book and wasn’t going to admit her on that basis since that visa (aka SB-1) is only for absences of 1 or more years.  The officer instead wanted a Lincoln boarding foil and maybe made noises about sending her back to the UK to get one.  
 

Anyway, my guess is no one at POE was listening to her, she ripped the packet open in frustration,  a USA passport falls out, and CBP is stunned. Then CBP figures out what State’s plan was while she is waiting in secondary inspection, and screams at her for producing  a USA passport before they anointed her USA citizenship by stamping her returning resident visa and then formally unsealing the packet.  
 

Regardless in the end, they sorted  it, and she was logged as entered the USA on her USA passport.  And the visa obviously wasn’t stamped because she produced the USA passport before the visa was stamped (CBP don’t stamp a visa of a USA citizen). This is causing consternation at the embassy again and distracting it from the CRBA.  
 

Anyway that’s the best explanation I can think of.  
 

I agree that this should be pursued  by the father of the child and I will post a comment in reply to OP on that next. 

Thx for unravelling this. I was headed in a similar direction but thankful you got there before me. What an awful experience ! 

[Mike E 11,723]

6 hours ago, Depressed M said:

my father told me i was issued a green card. Whether I actually was i am not sure of unless i ask him as he would have those documents.

So it seems like you left the USA without a green card after applying for your passport.   Current practice today is that when you apply for a USA passport after automatic acquisition of a USA citizenship, the passport agency usually confiscates your green card.  Presumably that was the practice then. 

 

 

Quote

I went back to UK as i was told the US embassy in london would be issuing my American passport. I dont know if thats how its supposed to go but thats how it went.

So I suspect that at some point in the passport application process the passport agency caught wind of the fact that you were in USA temporarily. And/or  your father or you asked that the passport be sent to you in the UK.  Generally the passport agency in the USA will not mail a passport to anywhere but the USA or Canada (today at least). 
 

The simplest would have been for the passport to be mailed to your father in the USA while you were in the UK, and then he FedEx’d it.  But for whatever reason that didn’t happen.  
 

Quote

 

when i went to pick up the passport i was taken into a private room and told that it was sealed in this envelope and not to open it. I was given paperwork and told to use this as my entry document. I never received a returning resident visa as there isnt one present in my UK passport.

OK.
 

1. In that UK passport is there an immigration visa?

 

2. If so, on the page opposite the visa is there an oval entry stamp? See the image below:

 

 

3. If there is an oval entry stamp opposite the visa, is the date of entry one year or more before the date of issue of the USA passport you carried to the USA (the passport the embassy issued to you and gave to you in a sealed envelope)?

 

Quote

in response to your other question. My childs birth was registered 8 days after birth. 

Ok.  That is faster than the hospital in the USA that registered each of my kids’ birth certificates despite the parent signing same on the date of birth.   So definitely, your son’s registration was not a late registration of birth.  
 

Still since it was a birth at home, I would:

 

* have the mother (you) prepare and a sign an affidavit stating you gave birth you your son at xyz address in the UK on yyyy-mm-dd.  
 

* If there was an attending mid wife or any other  medical practitioner, I’d try to get an affidavit from that person too. It works best if you write the affidavit and just ask them to sign and date it.  

 

* have any close relative who was around at the time you gave birth also signed and date a prepared affidavit especially anyone who was inn the room while you gave birth. Otherwise, someone who says “I saw @Depressed M in a state of pregnancy on or before yyyy-mm-dd and on or after yyyy-mm-ee I saw her with her new born son who was named John M”. 
 

As recommended by @Family include the physical presence evidence   of your son’s father, and evidence he was a USA citizen before your  son was born (his USA birth certificate IOW).  

Edited April 11, 2022 by Mike E

[jan22 2,898]

10 hours ago, Depressed M said:

Thank you for your response!!

 

1. Born Out of wedlock 

2. Yes the father is a USC born and raised, at time of birth!

3. All forms were completed with the Crba application. It was all prepared by my lawyer. 
4. No other evidence was asked of me regarding the father. My lawyer prepared everything needed for the fathers part. 

Sorry for the length of this, but i wanted to provide as complete a clarification of a couple of things as i could!  

 

Based on your responses to others after I posted these questions, it seems like what they are questioning now is your acquisition of US citizenship and not your physical presence, but I'll talk about the physical presence part first anyway, just in case it is still questioned.

1. If a child of two US citizens is born out of wedlock outside the US, and the father meets the criteria of INA 309(a), then per INA 301(c) the only physical presence requirement is that at least one of the parents needed to have had a US residence at any point in time prior to the child's birth -- as long as it was a place in the US where the parent actually lived (and not just a hotel or visiting at family members' houses, etc.), even one day is sufficient to establish a residence for the purpose of transmitting US citizenship. [NOTE:  The birth of a child to two US citizen parents is the only situation in which "residence" versus "physical presence" is used to evaluate the acquisition of US citizenship at birth for a child born outside the US.]
2. So, did the father meet the requirements of the "new" INA 309 (a) as it was revised:

• Blood relationship between father and child is established through clear, convincing evidence -- he is on the birth certificate and per your response, they didn't ask questions about the relationship, so:  Yes.
• Father was a US citizen at the time of the child's birth -- he was born in the US, so:  Yes.
• The father has agreed, in wrting, to support the child until the child is 18 -- you indicate the DS-5507 was submitted by your lawyer, so:  Yes.
• While the child is still under the age of 18, the child is legitimate under the laws of his/her residence; or, the father acknowledges paternity under oath; or, a court establishes paternity -- the father's on the birth certificate and signed the DS-5507, so:  Yes -- only needed one, but  met two of the criteria.

There should have never been a question, therefore, about the length of your physical presence in the US.  I went through the details here so if it still is presented as an issue, you can say that your child acquired citizenship under INA 301(c) because the father met the criteria of the "new" INA 309(a), which will show them you know what's what!  (You can take a look at all this at https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html#:~:text=A person born abroad in,prior to the person's birth.).

 

To me, it sounds like you were likely issued a limited-validity emergency US passport allowing for direct return to the US which did not require you to submit all of the normal primary evidence of US citizenship -- that would be submitted when you then applied for the full validity passport once in the US.  (Although I am a little befuddled by the sealed envelope, unless it was just the sealed envelope in which they sent you the passport that they told you not to open until the airport so you didn't lose it!)  The important thing to note here is that Embassy London issued you some form of a US passport that was accepted for US entry (and you got another passport later on, right?).  They should be able to find the passport service they provided and any other passport applications you have filed in their computer system and verify the information they are asking you for, especially for all of the time and effort they costed you by requiring physical presence information that was likely unnecessary, IMO. 

 

However, if they are not, and acknowledge that they are still unsure about the documentation of your US citizenship -- which they might not, as they really should not be re-adjudicating your citizenship just because of the CRBA application -- you can ask officially ask them to do a File Search to verify your citizenship. Unfortunately, there is a $150 fee for that, but it should end all questions (and, sometimes just asking for it will get them to take a look without charging the fee).  There is, of course, also a form to fill out.  If you go to https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/how-apply/citizenship-evidence.html#:~:text=Request a File Search&text=The File Search fee is,to the Department of State and scroll all the way to the end, there is a link to the form.

 

Good luck!

Edited April 11, 2022 by jan22