Utah County Proxy (Zoom) wedding

[John & Rose 7,239]

5 minutes ago, Adventine said:

@John & Rose interesting. Has USCIS also approved their AOS, then? My concern is that Dept of State and USCIS are two separate entities and they may not arrive at the same conclusion. USCIS, upon learning of the marriage date during the AOS process, could possibly deny the AOS because the couple got married before they arrived in the States. At least that is how I can see things going wrong. 

 

That is the one question that I wonder too. They have not filed AOS  yet but I can’t see USCIS fighting the State Department on A codified guideline but it may take some convincing. It looks legal and they did get their K-1 visa and cancelling their spousal. I’ve been watching closely waiting for the “gotcha” that never happened. The CO, according to the couple, was well aware of their timeline and process. They didn’t have any challenges at all at any step. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by John & Rose

[Adventine 3,187]

@John & Rose hmmm, to be continued, then. If it was me, I sure wouldn't want to be the guinea pig who tried an online marriage + K1 + AOS!

[John & Rose 7,239]

2 minutes ago, Adventine said:

@John & Rose hmmm, to be continued, then. If it was me, I sure wouldn't want to be the guinea pig who tried an online marriage + K1 + AOS!

I will follow up as their AOS progresses. It all seems a little hard to believe but so far it is working exactly as the State Department says it would. Now they deal with USCIS again but USCIS already approved their K-1 petition after they married online. 

[Redro 4,602]

2 hours ago, John & Rose said:

That is the one question that I wonder too. They have not filed AOS  yet but I can’t see USCIS fighting the State Department on A codified guideline but it may take some convincing. It looks legal and they did get their K-1 visa and cancelling their spousal. I’ve been watching closely waiting for the “gotcha” that never happened. The CO, according to the couple, was well aware of their timeline and process. They didn’t have any challenges at all at any step. 

Where is the beneficiary from? Where did they interview?

I wonder if it will be country specific... 

[John & Rose 7,239]

5 minutes ago, Kor2USA said:

Where is the beneficiary from? Where did they interview?

I wonder if it will be country specific... 

I put up the State Department guidance documents. That is for the US. If the country allows proxy weddings then they are legal and recognized by the US. There are definite questions about AOS but USCIS approved their K-1 petition so I’m thinking AOS may be as smooth as their K-1 process. When I first heard of it I argued it wouldn’t work. After some research and the fact that they did it successfully it made me look a lot closer. 

[my_gf_wants_cr1 13]

17 hours ago, John & Rose said:

You are all good to go.  The US recognizes the online marriage and your should be easier than most since you will be together.  Do you have a US address that you can use for their paperwork?  I'm not sure if they will send the marriage certificate to a foreign address but they also email a certified certificate.  The actual marriage was online for us and they don't know where people call in from.  We had probably 20 people on the Zoom to witness the wedding and they were literally all over the world.  The brides father is a Seaman and he joined from his ship somewhere out in the Pacific Ocean.  What country are you in?  Feel free to PM me so you dont lose your place in the Philippine forum as this conversation can help them a lot.

Thanks for that; I do have several addresses of several relatives I could use.

I live in Israel, so I am not going to hijack this, I will PM you if I need something, thanks again!  

[HRQX 4,145]

11 hours ago, John & Rose said:

That is the one question that I wonder too. They have not filed AOS  yet

Did they re-"marry" within the 90 days of K-1 status? USCIS has it's own set of regulations that interpret the INA; see 8 CFR § 214.2(k)(5): "...the petitioner and K-1 beneficiary are free to marry and intend to marry each other within 90 days of the beneficiary's entry into the United States."

 

If they didn't and the 90 days have already passed they should still consider getting re-"married" but would also need to file I-130 (and I-130A supplement) when filing the AOS. See the 1991 INS General Counsel opinion: http://myattorneyusa.com/storage/upload/files/matters/fiances-or-fiancees-who-marry.pdf "The citizen may, however, file an alien relative visa petition (Form I-130) after the untimely marriage."

[John & Rose 7,239]

I am watching closely how they proceed. The State Department says they don’t have to marry again but they are done with the State Department now. USCIS approved their K-1 after withdrawing the I-130 but they do have their own rules. Last I heard they were filing the AOS with their marriage certificate from before the K-1 was approved. They have not had a single hiccup yet but I have to assume USCIS may be confused. I will reach out to them to see what they are planning. Their lawyer has been really great so far. 

[John & Rose 7,239]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:11 AM, HRQX said:

Did they re-"marry" within the 90 days of K-1 status? USCIS has it's own set of regulations that interpret the INA; see 8 CFR § 214.2(k)(5): "...the petitioner and K-1 beneficiary are free to marry and intend to marry each other within 90 days of the beneficiary's entry into the United States."

 

If they didn't and the 90 days have already passed they should still consider getting re-"married" but would also need to file I-130 (and I-130A supplement) when filing the AOS. See the 1991 INS General Counsel opinion: http://myattorneyusa.com/storage/upload/files/matters/fiances-or-fiancees-who-marry.pdf "The citizen may, however, file an alien relative visa petition (Form I-130) after the untimely marriage."

It is going to be interesting to watch.  The State Department who issued the visa and USCIS who approved the K-1 petition after the marriage took place makes this interesting.  I have never imagined it would be possible but Covid and changes due to online and proxy weddings have opened a few doors.  Proxy weddings were only military until recently but they have been accepted and approved by the US.  This case is just a little bizarre and AOS may be a challenge but their lawyer has already stated that USCIS approved the K-1 after the marriage so they have a good case if questions arise later.  The State Department says they do not "have to" remarry but it doesnt say they should or shouldn't.  That 1991 decision is not quite apples to apples.  This is going to be fun to watch. 

[Ontarkie 13,981]

1 hour ago, John & Rose said:

It is going to be interesting to watch.  The State Department who issued the visa and USCIS who approved the K-1 petition after the marriage took place makes this interesting.  I have never imagined it would be possible but Covid and changes due to online and proxy weddings have opened a few doors.  Proxy weddings were only military until recently but they have been accepted and approved by the US.  This case is just a little bizarre and AOS may be a challenge but their lawyer has already stated that USCIS approved the K-1 after the marriage so they have a good case if questions arise later.  The State Department says they do not "have to" remarry but it doesnt say they should or shouldn't.  That 1991 decision is not quite apples to apples.  This is going to be fun to watch. 

That will be very interesting when they send in the marriage documents showing the date that they were married before the K1 was issued. On top of that I highly doubt they outright told the officer at the interview they married via zoom. 

[John & Rose 7,239]

14 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

That will be very interesting when they send in the marriage documents showing the date that they were married before the K1 was issued. On top of that I highly doubt they outright told the officer at the interview they married via zoom. 

They absolutely did tell the officer and they even showed the online certificate from Utah. They sent it with the K-1 petition too since they didn’t want it to seem they were not being transparent.  They had an I-130 in process when they cancelled for the K-1 and even disclosed that AND mentioned it to the CO. Their lawyer was adamant about making sure they were overtly transparent during the process. That makes me think the lawyer anticipates AOS questions. 
 

Everyone here is saying the same thing I originally mentioned to them when they decided to take this path. I never expected them to get this far but their lawyer was very confident and accurate to this point. I believe the thought may be that if questioned, they did not consummate until after the K-1 approval and her arrival into the US. So the State Department can use their online wedding date but they were not official married in the eyes of USCIS until after she arrived on her visa. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by John & Rose

[Ontarkie 13,981]

2 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

They absolutely did tell the officer and they even showed the online certificate from Utah. They sent it with the K-1 petition too since they didn’t want it to seem they were not being transparent.  They had an I-130 in process when they cancelled for the K-1 and even disclosed that AND mentioned it to the CO. Their lawyer was adamant about making sure they were overtly transparent during the process. That makes me think the lawyer anticipates AOS questions. 
 

Everyone here is saying the same thing I originally mentioned to them when they decided to take this path. I never expected them to get this far but their lawyer was very confident and accurate to this point. I believe the thought may be that if questioned, they did not consummate until after the K-1 approval and her arrival into the US. So the State Department can use their online wedding date but they were not official married in the eyes of USCIS until after she arrived on her visa. 

That's wild. 

[John & Rose 7,239]

Just now, Ontarkie said:

That's wild. 

Absolutely crazy.  When I first talked to them I figured they were heading towards a misrep bar.  As time went on and seeing that the State Department even has written guidance I figured that no way would USCIS go along with it.  I doubted every step and they kept prevailing.  Their K-1 timeline was even exceptionally quick.  She arrived maybe a couple weeks ago.  At this point I have to think they will be fine somehow.  I'm still scratching my head on this one.

[coa24 69]

This is extremely interesting. I have a filipino friends, one a USA citizen and the one he wants to marry a Philippine citizen. To say the least, they poorly prepared for a wedding in the Philippines in February and the guy only has 4 weeks to everything done from affidavit to marry from USA embassy to getting marriage license an then getting married. I wonder if this could be a work around for their situation where they can have the proxy wedding and then in February have a mock wedding in the Philippines for the family. 

 

That way they would not have to worry about getting all the requirements together in less than 4 weeks. It seems there is success. Would an I-130 be doable (they met multiple times already)?

[John & Rose 7,239]

Just now, coa24 said:

This is extremely interesting. I have a filipino friends, one a USA citizen and the one he wants to marry a Philippine citizen. To say the least, they poorly prepared for a wedding in the Philippines in February and the guy only has 4 weeks to everything done from affidavit to marry from USA embassy to getting marriage license an then getting married. I wonder if this could be a work around for their situation where they can have the proxy wedding and then in February have a mock wedding in the Philippines for the family. 

 

That way they would not have to worry about getting all the requirements together in less than 4 weeks. It seems there is success. Would an I-130 be doable (they met multiple times already)?

Right now they do not need to go to the Embassy for the "Affidavit on Lieu of the Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage".  Unless things have changed, the Embassy and the LCRs air allowing that affidavit be notarized by any Notary Public in the Philippines.  4 weeks is plenty of time if you are organized.  I've seen it done in 3 weeks.  Organization is the key and finding the efficient quickly really helps.  Try the town mayor.  Courts are backlogged on all cases so marriages may take a while to get scheduled.

 

One MAJOR challenge is he is not allowed to enter the Philippines unless he is a former citizen or spouse.  The online wedding can help get him into the Philippines and many do a "renewal of vows" for family.  Identical to an actual wedding but there is no paperwork to submit.  To legally file the I-130, they would have to meet again AFTER the wedding before they file.