MEGATHREAD- All USA Flights from EU banned for next 30 days

[dpnce 102]

22 minutes ago, HRQX said:

The part that makes it vague for me is "For purposes of this proclamation" part and then they didn't make a reference to the overseas territories that aren't actually part of Schengen.

Right? It is very confusing. At the same time, and further in the paragraphs, the proclamation provides that " Given the importance of protecting persons within the United States from the threat of this harmful communicable disease, I have determined that it is in the interests of the United States to take action to restrict and suspend the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States." 

 

Given that French overseas territories are not part of the Schengen Area/Agreement, by extension, my understanding is that they do not fall under the ban. 

 

Also, France plans to reopen tourism in French overseas territories as of July, at least for French nationals.They haven't announced anything yet regarding other nationalities but this could be interesting to follow!

[geowrian 22,335]

13 hours ago, HRQX said:

@geowrian: does Schengen Area ban include overseas territories that aren't actually part of Schengen? Such as

My understanding is it covers "states", which effectively means countries here since territories of those countries were not explicitly excluded.

But this is just my understanding based on the wording of the EO provided - I do not have an official source to verify this (the FAM does not appear to be updated, nor have I seen DOS memos clarifying this) or actual examples of people having success or failure.

 

3 hours ago, dpnce said:

Given that French overseas territories are not part of the Schengen Area/Agreement, by extension, my understanding is that they do not fall under the ban.

The issue is the proclamation states "For purposes of this proclamation, the Schengen Area comprises 26 European states: ...". This effectively defines what is meant by "Schengen Area" throughout the rest of the document, unless stated otherwise, regardless of any actual Schengen agreement.

 

Example:

Had the Proclamation said "For purposes of this proclamation, South America comprises of Brazil, Chile, and Venezuela.", it would not apply to - for example - Peru as it was not in that definition despite being part of South America.

Edited May 26, 2020 by geowrian

[dpnce 102]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

My understanding is it covers "states", which effectively means countries here since territories of those countries were not explicitly excluded.

But this is just my understanding based on the wording of the EO provided - I do not have an official source to verify this (the FAM does not appear to be updated, nor have I seen DOS memos clarifying this) or actual examples of people having success or failure.

 

The issue is the proclamation states "For purposes of this proclamation, the Schengen Area comprises 26 European states: ...". This effectively defines what is meant by "Schengen Area" throughout the rest of the document, unless stated otherwise, regardless of any actual Schengen agreement.

 

Example:

Had the Proclamation said "For purposes of this proclamation, South America comprises of Brazil, Chile, and Venezuela.", it would not apply to - for example - Peru as it was not in that definition despite being part of South America.

• In a broadest sense and if you look at the context, the Schengen travel ban was the 2nd ban to be implemented after that of China. I would tend to say that the US knows - given the historical background - that the UK has overseas territories, and that Hong Kong and Macau are "Special Administrative Regions". In my personal and travel experience - which of course can be different from others - a few people would know the existence of the French Caribbean islands nor Reunion island, which is in the Indian Ocean. IMHO, they forgot to expressly exclude (French) overseas territories when they implemented the Schengen travel ban. Maybe because they thought they were part of the Schengen Area as well? Even some French people think that "DROM-COM" are part of the Schengen Area so I would not be surprised if this was the case. Also, the number of COVID-19 cases in the French overseas territories is way lower than in mainland France. E.g.: Today, there are 161 cases and 14 deaths in Guadeloupe, 459 cases and 1 death in Reunion island, and 197 cases and 14 deaths in Martinique as per https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries. 

 

• Read/Interpreted in its strict sense, and given the way other proclamations were written by expressly excluding overseas territories ("who were physically present within the United Kingdom, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe, or the Republic of Ireland" in the UK and Ireland Proclamation and "who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China, excluding the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau" in the China proclamation), I agree that (French) overseas territories fall under the ban. 

 

It does not make sense to use  the technical terms "Schengen Area" in the Proclamation given that they themselves refer to a specific Agreement, while the Agreement itself does not comprises (French) overseas territories. This is just IMHO. My fiancé told me he is going to call the CBP to check if they would allow someone entering from Guadeloupe/Martinique to clarify this point. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by dpnce

[HRQX 4,145]

12 minutes ago, dpnce said:

• the Schengen travel ban was the 2nd ban to be implemented after that of China.

Iran proclamation was in between China and Schengen Area proclamations

[dpnce 102]

3 minutes ago, HRQX said:

Iran proclamation was in between China and Schengen Area proclamations

Forgot about that one, thank you for your input!

[dpnce 102]

So I asked a friend who works for American Airlines at the Miami International Airport if they had recently let people enter from the Caribbean islands and she told me "they're letting people enter, but if you're not a national of an island, they're not letting people go on." I will let you know when my fiancé would have called the CBP to have a more "official" info! 

Edited May 27, 2020 by dpnce

[Scandi 3,970]

Is there an official end date yet? When can people from the schengen area fly here again?

[HRQX 4,145]

29 minutes ago, Scandi said:

Is there an official end date yet? When can people from the schengen area fly here again?

No official end date: "This proclamation shall remain in effect until terminated by the President." On the other thread, people have successfully gone to Mexico for 14 days and then entered the US:

Alternatives to Mexico include Serbia and Croatia, as discussed in that thread.

 

Also, sometimes CBP makes mistakes. In the following thread, the similar UK and Ireland proclamation would have barred that IR-5 visa holder from entering the US:

But that individual was able to enter the US.

Edited June 5, 2020 by HRQX

[HRQX 4,145]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:39 AM, dpnce said:

I will let you know when my fiancé would have called the CBP to have a more "official" info! 

Do you have follow up info? On the other thread an ESTA traveler is going to Aruba:

 

[dpnce 102]

On 6/26/2020 at 3:28 PM, HRQX said:

Do you have follow up info? On the other thread an ESTA traveler is going to Aruba:

 

Hey! First of all, apologies for the delay! 

 

My fiancé had tried to call the CBP but couldn't get through. He stopped trying when we took the Mexico decision. In the meantime, I had contacted them and only received their reply today (as to going through one of the Caribbean islands e.g. Guadeloupe to then fly to the US). They are not clearly saying yes or no, only provide general information (not really surprised...): 

 

 

 

 

[igoyougoduke 1,604]

1 hour ago, dpnce said:

Hey! First of all, apologies for the delay! 

 

My fiancé had tried to call the CBP but couldn't get through. He stopped trying when we took the Mexico decision. In the meantime, I had contacted them and only received their reply today (as to going through one of the Caribbean islands e.g. Guadeloupe to then fly to the US). They are not clearly saying yes or no, only provide general information (not really surprised...): 

 

 

 

 

that email is as good as asking them what is 1+2=10. Bunch of gibberish standard template that does not answer any question. Bureaucracy nightmare. 

[HRQX 4,145]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:33 AM, James120383 said:

if you can fly into US without stop in Canada

No issues with flying through Canada: https://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/738065-has-anyone-left-europes-schengen-area-for-14-days-to-then-enter-usa/?do=findComment&comment=10160725

Can still fly from Canada to US, as the rule is on land entry and ferry services: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/03/24/2020-06217/notification-of-temporary-travel-restrictions-applicable-to-land-ports-of-entry-and-ferries-service