filing N 400 online 1 day early in 2020

[santiagosilva 8]

Hello

I filed online ~1:40am CET, and after submitting, i saw that the submission date was set as the day before.

My "snap shot"  and "date received" is the right date, but the "priority date" as well as the payment receipt says the day before.

I saw previous cases from 2018 and 2019, some people said their cases were denied, and some people said that their cases went by "date received".

(I did use the online messaging system to reach out to USCIS, but so far no response. )

 

Does anyone have more up to date information on this?

[designguy 1,179]

Why not just wait an extra day before you file. When you do it like this you risk something going wrong 

[santiagosilva 8]

Just now, designguy said:

Why not just wait an extra day before you file. When you do it like this you risk something going wrong 

 

 I used to work programming software and webpages in the 90's and we could make pages smart enough to detect local times.

 

And if for some reason, a call center , or a webpage goes by a specific time zone, it will tell you that + all the times will then reflect the right time-zone. Not 50/50.

 

 

 

[geowrian 22,335]

43 minutes ago, santiagosilva said:

I used to work programming software and webpages in the 90's and we could make pages smart enough to detect local times.

 

And if for some reason, a call center , or a webpage goes by a specific time zone, it will tell you that + all the times will then reflect the right time-zone. Not 50/50.

From what I've seen, they tend to record the time based on the last time zone within the US (Hawaii). Don't hold me to that, but that's what I recall off-hand.

I've seen a denial due to this, but it was overturned in the end.

The USCIS system has no way to know where you physically are located at the time you click submit.

 

You can pull the system time client-side via javascript, but that is just a few clicks to fake. Or in cases like my wife, her computer was still set to her home country's timezone, so it would be off there.

You can pull the timezone based on a geolookup of the IP. But:

1) IPs can misleading (VPNs are the easiest/most common method), and

2) They are not 100% correct. I am based in the US but my WAN IP gets detected sometimes as Germany, Poland, and a couple other countries. I've had YouTube suddenly change over to another region a couple times, and I had to manually switch it back to the US version (didn't even know this was a thing until it happened the first time).

Edit: Note that #2 is really annoying with websites that have geofilters to block non-US IPs...some major sites don't work sometimes.

 

In either case, you cannot know the local time or time zone. At best you can make an educated guess based on either the client's settings or IP.

Edited February 7, 2020 by geowrian

[santiagosilva 8]

9 minutes ago, geowrian said:

From what I've seen, they tend to record the time based on the last time zone within the US (Hawaii). Don't hold me to that, but that's what I recall off-hand.

I've seen a denial due to this, but it was overturned in the end.

The USCIS system has no way to know where you physically are located at the time you click submit.

 

You can pull the system time client-side via javascript, but that is just a few clicks to fake. Or in cases like my wife, her computer was still set to her home country's timezone, so it would be off there.

You can pull the timezone based on a geolookup of the IP. But:

1) IPs can misleading (VPNs are the easiest/most common method), and

2) They are not 100% correct. I am based in the US but my WAN IP gets detected sometimes as Germany, Poland, and a couple other countries. I've had YouTube suddenly change over to another region a couple times, and I had to manually switch it back to the US version (didn't even know this was a thing until it happened the first time).

Edit: Note that #2 is really annoying with websites that have geofilters to block non-US IPs...some major sites don't work sometimes.

 

In either case, you cannot know the local time or time zone. At best you can make an educated guess based on either the client's settings or IP.

 

but again, half,  the docs say 2/5 ......, half say 2/4.

NOT

all say the same date.

 

but of course, who'd think that the system would go by other time zones, UNLESS , clearly stated?

 

 

 

[Amadia 711]

15 minutes ago, santiagosilva said:

but again, half,  the docs say 2/5 ......, half say 2/4.

NOT

all say the same date.

You see that but the system date is what USCIS will go by.....you will just have to wait and see if you get a denial notice for filing early. @Giovanna024 can share her own experience and she used a lawyer who mucked it up for her.

[geowrian 22,335]

3 minutes ago, santiagosilva said:

but again, half,  the docs say 2/5 ......, half say 2/4.

NOT

all say the same date.

 

but of course, who'd think that the system would go by other time zones, UNLESS , clearly stated?

They're likely handled by different systems, and time zone is not accounted for consistently.

Not making an excuse...just pointing it out.

Here's a good, recent read for how it went for somebody else:

 

I do contract work with USPS, and much of the data is in local times, and many processes and SLAs are based on local time. It's a huge PITA to keep things consistent when there are integrating systems that don't support timezones.

[santiagosilva 8]

4 minutes ago, Amadia said:

You see that but the system date is what USCIS will go by.....you will just have to wait and see if you get a denial notice for filing early. @Giovanna024 can share her own experience and she used a lawyer who mucked it up for her.

Do you know if @Giovanna024 heard back quickly on the filing early, or had to wait the full 10-12 months to then get denied to reapply?

 

 

 

 

@geowrian That's the thread I just read before posting. But it's over a year old, so I wanted to see if there was newer info on that. Like if they had decided to give leeway for people who live in different timezones.

[Penguin_ie 5,986]

**** One post removed for personal attack and not being helpful.  Post with constructive advice por personal experienced that help the Op, or do not post. ****

[Giovanna024 442]

8 hours ago, santiagosilva said:

Do you know if @Giovanna024 heard back quickly on the filing early, or had to wait the full 10-12 months to then get denied to reapply?

 

 

 

 

@geowrian That's the thread I just read before posting. But it's over a year old, so I wanted to see if there was newer info on that. Like if they had decided to give leeway for people who live in different timezones.

Hello, Since i Filled Paper on Dec 30 (instead of Dec 31st) I got rejection notice on January 14th with returned package to my attorney's office and he Filled again on January 16th via FedEx and then I got NOA, they returned everything with cashiers check at once. 

[zilchfox 296]

This is why I personally waited extra buffer days (I was eligible to file on Jan 24th, but I waited two extra days on Jan 26th to submit to avoid this exact issue – my online status states I filed Jan 26th as well).

 

OP, did USCIS get back to you on this, or is it still "processing as normal"?

[santiagosilva 8]

1 hour ago, zilchfox said:

This is why I personally waited extra buffer days (I was eligible to file on Jan 24th, but I waited two extra days on Jan 26th to submit to avoid this exact issue – my online status states I filed Jan 26th as well).

 

OP, did USCIS get back to you on this, or is it still "processing as normal"?

No word from officers or anyone yet.

I did get a reply on my online messaging system saying "we can't answer specific question. if you wish to upload evidence, feel free to use the online system. If you questions, feel free to call....."

 

I'll keep everyone posted.

[Amadia 711]

11 hours ago, santiagosilva said:

Do you know if @Giovanna024 heard back quickly on the filing early, or had to wait the full 10-12 months to then get denied to reapply?

So she filed with us in December by mail thru an attorney.....the attorney did not do their due diligence in checking the eligible early filing date and mailed out the package which arrived at the USCIS station 1 day early and outside the eligibility period. USCIS ended up mailing the package back with her check et all and a notice of denial for early filing of N400. Needless to say she was very upset that her attorney fell short and they had to mail it back again so she is now in the January 2020 N400 filers group and is going thru the Miami center which is heavily backlogged.

To answer your question, USCIS did not allow her to wait all that 10-12 months to then deny her for early filing.....which, IMHO would be a waste of everyone's time and resources.

They got her application in the mail, looked at the filing eligibility for 90-day early filing window, realized her package was there earlier than it should have been and they sent it right back. 

 

Some others in my December 2019 N400 filers group filed theirs online early too....like the day their window opened....without taking into account the fact that the US has various timezones. So for example noon in Florida is 9am on the West coast.....the "receipt date" on the notice is when the system receives and processes the application (if filed online). Paper mail would be easily sent back with a mail courier service. Those who filed early online were even scheduled for biometrics and attended it. It was only when they called USCIS for an update that they were told their online application was filed early and to await the next notice for their case.

 

It's easy to say "Oh, it's just 1 day. Can't the USCIS rep let it slide?" but imagine if everyone filed their application outside of their eligible time.....the crazy processing times would be amplified ridiculously.

[santiagosilva 8]

3 minutes ago, Amadia said:

So she filed with us in December by mail thru an attorney.....the attorney did not do their due diligence in checking the eligible early filing date and mailed out the package which arrived at the USCIS station 1 day early and outside the eligibility period. USCIS ended up mailing the package back with her check et all and a notice of denial for early filing of N400. Needless to say she was very upset that her attorney fell short and they had to mail it back again so she is now in the January 2020 N400 filers group and is going thru the Miami center which is heavily backlogged.

To answer your question, USCIS did not allow her to wait all that 10-12 months to then deny her for early filing.....which, IMHO would be a waste of everyone's time and resources.

They got her application in the mail, looked at the filing eligibility for 90-day early filing window, realized her package was there earlier than it should have been and they sent it right back. 

 

Some others in my December 2019 N400 filers group filed theirs online early too....like the day their window opened....without taking into account the fact that the US has various timezones. So for example noon in Florida is 9am on the West coast.....the "receipt date" on the notice is when the system receives and processes the application (if filed online). Paper mail would be easily sent back with a mail courier service. Those who filed early online were even scheduled for biometrics and attended it. It was only when they called USCIS for an update that they were told their online application was filed early and to await the next notice for their case.

 

It's easy to say "Oh, it's just 1 day. Can't the USCIS rep let it slide?" but imagine if everyone filed their application outside of their eligible time.....the crazy processing times would be amplified ridiculously.

Still seems like the online system should be smarter than that. Even when you try to book plane tickets online , it won't let you book too far into the future, not to mention that it would be easy to just put as a notice "dates are in XYZ standard time".

And again, the only document(s) that says '2/4' is the payment receipt email, and the priority date.  every other place , on THEIR PAGE(s), incl the PDF that is the application form, that THEY create,  says '2/5'. If I was still in the programming world, i would've deemed this a bug, and use ONE date over all the different scripts (or w/e they use nowadays). 

 

 

I'm just curious if I'm going to have to wait the full 10 months to find out, like those people in 2018/2019, or if, like other parts of the process, have been updated.

 

 

And for the record , not to pass bucks or anything, but I ALSO got legal advice , who said that because of my case, that I should be applying ASAP as possible. I said I was tired of paperwork (after having one n400 denied, and an extra long i751 process that only finished ~3 months ago) and I said I'd wait at least a few months, but he said that I had "too many x factors, and if my case ever came up for review, that my  LPR status could possibly be compromised, + since evidence goes lost, papers fade, peoples memories of events disappear  etc, it could be hard to prove if asked, all the different circumstances surrounding my marriage / divorce". (Not to mention that I play in a band that tours abroad quite a bit, and that opens up another set of X-Y-Z factors that could put my me in a situation where i could have my LPR status cancelled.)

 

 

And for another record, in my "9-5", I actually work w clients where I often (not always, but often)  need security clearances from FBI, CIA and other agencies. I've lost a lot of clients, due to not having my citizenship.

 

And for a third and final record, I thought that like when i filed paper back in 2018, that it would take a day or 2 to find all the proof and info to complete the forms . The online one basically cut all the paper in half. I thought I'd be having to come back and let it sit, but all of a sudden, I was asked if I was finished and wanted to submit. And I didn't  want the page to time out, or info to get lost w/e.  (when i looked at the PDF of the form, basically 1/3-1/2 of the questions i remember answering in 2018 were left empty)

[Amadia 711]

47 minutes ago, santiagosilva said:

Still seems like the online system should be smarter than that.

Two things:

- As a person who is in IT, I know that timestamps are locale to where the system servers are so their timestamp on the the receipt notice would be in line with the timezone of that state. I'm thinking it's Missouri but I could be wrong.

- I fully understand not getting to do stuff based on not having citizenship.....I have restrictions with my current job because of it.