"Trump did not Betray the Kurds"

[OriZ 3,157]

Just now, luckytxn said:

Not anti semitic at all. I am sure you think so though but don't hate Jews or Israel. Nice try at deflection though. I hope Israel and any country the best. America don't need to be living and dying or wasting money over there. We have Americans needing help here and we need to concentrate on our neighbors not far away lands.

I didn't say you were anti semitic, I said you were spewing anti semitic libel. The USS Liberty is frequently used by anti semites in an attempt to smear Israel, when anyone who knows the facts knows it was mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Also, every country has spies. Nice try though.

[Dashinka 23,190]

43 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Should have moved them a long time ago. Bowing down to Putin. Backing down from Erdogan. Following up with threats that are clearly empty. That to me is a coward. Look, I really wanted Trump to be a good president and marginally preferred him over Clinton, but he has been losing points with me time after time in the last 3 years and is now running out of them. The axis of evil has only gotten stronger under Trump and is now holding the western world by the balls, and the only one willing to do anything about them anymore is Israel...hey would you look at that, another benefit!

In this case, these weapons should have never been there in the first place, but regardless, they are there which is a reality that must be faced.  Pretty much every president at least in the last 40 years (yes, including Reagan) has been mostly bark and no bite.  Sure, there are wars we have started or joined, and W. Bush was probably the least cowardly using your definition, but I for one hope that any president is loathe to willy nilly play with the soldiers lives.  I know, the soldiers signed up for whatever, but they are still humans.

[luckytxn 2,263]

11 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

In this case, these weapons should have never been there in the first place, but regardless, they are there which is a reality that must be faced.  Pretty much every president at least in the last 40 years (yes, including Reagan) has been mostly bark and no bite.  Sure, there are wars we have started or joined, and W. Bush was probably the least cowardly using your definition, but I for one hope that any president is loathe to willy nilly play with the soldiers lives.  I know, the soldiers signed up for whatever, but they are still humans.

Thanks as a former soldier we do sign up for and prepare for war but all soldiers hope for peace. For some reason endless war is the fashionable thing now.  Bush even said flippantly we will need to be in the middle east for a hundred years after he invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq. There is a reason though as war is a control over the populace that even Socialists would be green with envy. Why do you think Obama and Hillary wanted war? Regime change for the sake of doing it? We had stability when Saddam was in power that has been lost now so we got rid of that problem. The military industrial complex needs to keep being funded and the best way is endless war. Now what would happen if we were to pull our troops worldwide back home and close all them expensive bases? What if we were to stop sending our money to the middle east or any country for that matter. Yeah they spend a portion on U.S. merchandise and then embezzle the rest in their bank accounts and that 74% does help employ Americans but at what cost? We could probably balance the budget and fund universal health care. Of course we can do it now still but we are running record deficits now and getting rid of the welfare we pay other countries would make it way more affordable. 

[luckytxn 2,263]

1 hour ago, OriZ said:

I didn't say you were anti semitic, I said you were spewing anti semitic libel. The USS Liberty is frequently used by anti semites in an attempt to smear Israel, when anyone who knows the facts knows it was mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Also, every country has spies. Nice try though.

Spewing facts is not spewing anti semitism. They said they thought it was an Egyptian ship but history has shown they lied about that and knew it was an American ship flying American flags. And blowing off the spies they send into our country and committing espionage saying that others do it so it nothing is a straw man argument. 

 

Israel can do what it wants but we do not need to subsidize them by throwing any money their way. We are running deficits and sending money out is ridiculous when we have Americans with needs and Americans are way more important to this country than any other citizen outside this country. If people wants money to be sent to Israel or any country than write a check or set up a go fund me site. Let Europe toss their fortune that way. Why does American have to fund other countries?

[OriZ 3,157]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

In this case, these weapons should have never been there in the first place, but regardless, they are there which is a reality that must be faced.  Pretty much every president at least in the last 40 years (yes, including Reagan) has been mostly bark and no bite.  Sure, there are wars we have started or joined, and W. Bush was probably the least cowardly using your definition, but I for one hope that any president is loathe to willy nilly play with the soldiers lives.  I know, the soldiers signed up for whatever, but they are still humans.

Well, then I guess in that case all we really need is the Royal Mounted Police. Why waste the money... Trump is the one who boasts about how strong he made the military, it's not worth it if you're not going to use it, just more tax dollars down the drain. Also, I don't see how the nuclear weapons change anything in this situation. it doesn't give turkey the right to do whatever it wants

[OriZ 3,157]

1 hour ago, luckytxn said:

Thanks as a former soldier we do sign up for and prepare for war but all soldiers hope for peace. For some reason endless war is the fashionable thing now.  Bush even said flippantly we will need to be in the middle east for a hundred years after he invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq. There is a reason though as war is a control over the populace that even Socialists would be green with envy. Why do you think Obama and Hillary wanted war? Regime change for the sake of doing it? We had stability when Saddam was in power that has been lost now so we got rid of that problem. The military industrial complex needs to keep being funded and the best way is endless war. Now what would happen if we were to pull our troops worldwide back home and close all them expensive bases? What if we were to stop sending our money to the middle east or any country for that matter. Yeah they spend a portion on U.S. merchandise and then embezzle the rest in their bank accounts and that 74% does help employ Americans but at what cost? We could probably balance the budget and fund universal health care. Of course we can do it now still but we are running record deficits now and getting rid of the welfare we pay other countries would make it way more affordable. 

How about we start with closing the SEC and other useless agencies and stop bailing out failed companies and subsidizing large corporations and take it from there?

[luckytxn 2,263]

6 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Well, then I guess in that case all we really need is the Royal Mounted Police. Why waste the money... Trump is the one who boasts about how strong he made the military, it's not worth it if you're not going to use it, just more tax dollars down the drain. Also, I don't see how the nuclear weapons change anything in this situation. it doesn't give turkey the right to do whatever it wants

Turkey has a right to self protection just like Israel and Palestine and any country. Turkey says that the Kurds are using their bases to send terrorists into Turkey so they should be allowed to take them out like any other country does. Yes we know Turkey historically hates and fights Kurds but the Kurds do the same to Turkey. If some terrorists were fomenting at camps along the U.S. border I would expect us to go in and take them out. Yeah we funded the Kurds with money and weapons to help against ISIS but it seems they also funded and trained terrorists to infiltrate Turkey. Trump was smart to step aside and let them settle their differences. Why should Americans die in this?

[luckytxn 2,263]

1 minute ago, OriZ said:

How about we start with closing the SEC and other useless agencies and stop bailing out failed companies and subsidizing large corporations and take it from there?

I agree. See we can come to the same understandings. The Feds are not our babysitters and it is buyer beware. Bravo for your sound judgement in this. No subsidies at all for anyone and especially farmers and other companies.

[OriZ 3,157]

53 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

Spewing facts is not spewing anti semitism. They said they thought it was an Egyptian ship but history has shown they lied about that and knew it was an American ship flying American flags. And blowing off the spies they send into our country and committing espionage saying that others do it so it nothing is a straw man argument. 

 

Israel can do what it wants but we do not need to subsidize them by throwing any money their way. We are running deficits and sending money out is ridiculous when we have Americans with needs and Americans are way more important to this country than any other citizen outside this country. If people wants money to be sent to Israel or any country than write a check or set up a go fund me site. Let Europe toss their fortune that way. Why does American have to fund other countries?

Well, only problem is you weren't screwing facts. Here are some facts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

Why would Israel deliberately attack an American ship? Do you really think it seems like a good idea? Anything to gain from it? The more you keep insisting on this the more I'm going to actually be convinced you are in fact anti-Semitic. 

 

Spies...you really believe the US doesn't spy on Israel? Do you think France doesn't spy on the US question mark do you think France doesn't spy on Germany question mark do you think America doesn't spy on both? Don't make me laugh. It even has a name, it's called friendly spying. 

 

 and again you are failing to realize you are not "funding" other countries,  nor are you doing it just to be nice. There are many interests involved, which the US benefits greatly from. In other words you're doing it for your own good as well

[luckytxn 2,263]

1 minute ago, OriZ said:

Well, only problem is you weren't screwing facts. Here are some facts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

Why would Israel deliberately attack an American ship? Do you really think it seems like a good idea? Anything to gain from it? The more you keep insisting on this the more I'm going to actually be convinced you are in fact anti-Semitic. 

 

Spies...you really believe the US doesn't spy on Israel? Do you think France doesn't spy on the US question mark do you think France doesn't spy on Germany question mark do you think America doesn't spy on both? Don't make me laugh. It even has a name, it's called friendly spying. 

 

 and again you are failing to realize you are not "funding" other countries,  nor are you doing it just to be nice. There are many interests involved, which the US benefits greatly from. In other words you're doing it for your own good as well

Don't agree with you at all. We don't need to fund any country but our own. If any country we should help out maybe our neighbors and Israel and the middle east are not neighbors but countries that have killed Americans and cause us untold grief constantly.

 

Yeah wiki is a good source. smh

[OriZ 3,157]

15 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

Turkey has a right to self protection just like Israel and Palestine and any country. Turkey says that the Kurds are using their bases to send terrorists into Turkey so they should be allowed to take them out like any other country does. Yes we know Turkey historically hates and fights Kurds but the Kurds do the same to Turkey. If some terrorists were fomenting at camps along the U.S. border I would expect us to go in and take them out. Yeah we funded the Kurds with money and weapons to help against ISIS but it seems they also funded and trained terrorists to infiltrate Turkey. Trump was smart to step aside and let them settle their differences. Why should Americans die in this?

Protection from what, exactly? The Kurds in northern Syria have done nothing to them unless you have any recent example for me?  it's a vastly different situation than any of the other ones you have compared it to. When was the last time Israel uprooted hundreds of thousands of civilians and killed hundreds of people in a matter of a week, even when having to deal with real, not made up, threats coming outta Gaza and the West bank? There is zero justification for what turkey is doing. Anyone with a conscience can see that

[OriZ 3,157]

14 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

I agree. See we can come to the same understandings. The Feds are not our babysitters and it is buyer beware. Bravo for your sound judgement in this. No subsidies at all for anyone and especially farmers and other companies.

 I don't want the feds to be babysitters but I'm not an anarchist I'm a minarchist 🙂

[OriZ 3,157]

14 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

Don't agree with you at all. We don't need to fund any country but our own. If any country we should help out maybe our neighbors and Israel and the middle east are not neighbors but countries that have killed Americans and cause us untold grief constantly.

 

Yeah wiki is a good source. smh

You can make fun of wikipedia. There are many other sources out there, in fact, many of them are used in wikipedia, magic! Have you ever actually tried to submit something to wikipedia? Do you know how difficult it is and how ####### the reviewers are? Do you know how many good, neutral sources you need to back up everything you write? Well let me tell you, I know. Which actually makes it one of the best sources out there for summaries of information that has been corroborated with many sources.

 

Here's something about spying 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/29/why-america-spies-on-its-allies-and-probably-should/

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

6 hours ago, luckytxn said:

This. It is a long way from our shores here and nothing here merits protecting our country. If Europe finds they have interests that affects them then let them go in with their fortunes and troops. What difference does it make to the U.S. if people in a far off land want to fight and kill each other? Also why should this merit our attention and have to stay so as to ensure our allies consider us reliable and not when we left Vietnam or Somalia. etc? Seems it is OK to abandon some allies to their fates but others it is not. Let's discuss which allies it is proper to say FU to and which ones not. I am all ears.

 

Also Obama and Hillary put us into this morass why are they not blamed for doing nothing and leaving a mess for others to clean up? Why is Trump being blamed for others chit? Is it because it is Trump and many hate him no matter what?

Obama did draw a line in the sand

[Neonred 3,444]

I really would have thought taking the troops out of Afghanistan would have made more sense. 

Eight times as many troops there and it's never going to improve.