Ethiopian Airlines plane's black box recovered after deadly crash, but is reportedly damaged

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,319]

what do the smart people think of this. Its hard to believe that the pilot had control of the plane. 

 

2 new planes in such a short period of time?

 

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ethiopian-airlines-planes-black-box-found-after-deadly-crash-but-is-reportedly-damaged

[yuna628 9,530]

I think Boeing has a problem on it's hands. One eyewitness stated that the plane did indeed behave strangely and produce odd noises before crashing. Another stated that personal items were falling from the plane before it crashed. This would imply an opening in the fuselage somewhere before impact. With the Lion Air crash, it seems that the new control systems have something to do with it and part failures. What witnesses report on the Lion Air flight the day before it crashed when it had technical issues and this crash sound a little similar. Trouble maintaining altitude, pilot struggles to bring up the nose, and then the plane dives.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

 

  A lot of these aircraft in service in the US. Going to be hell to pay if one goes down here.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,319]

Southwest and American it seems

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,319]

[Unidentified 2,930]

Majority of the airlines around the world has grounded the MAX, only the US refusing to do the same.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Unidentified said:

Majority of the airlines around the world has grounded the MAX, only the US refusing to do the same.

Why should they ground them?  SWA and AAL operate (58) 737 MAX 8s, and UAL operates (14) 737 MAX 9s, and have had no issues.  (350 have been flying worldwide since January 2016).  Thousands upon thousands of flight hours, with data that is downloaded from the planes and put into computers to be analyzed, with no indication of problems.  Yes, it’s a new variant of a proven 737 base model, with new software and some new systems, but thus far, no one has been able to show a fault.  

 

Two failures in that many flight hours makes it hard to diagnose an actual fault, especially if they cannot retrieve the FDR data from te Indonesia flight.  Horrific loss of life, to be sure.  But unless the computers are able to find an anomaly that can be corrected with new parts or new software, grounding them will do little to correct any potential issues.

 

ETA: And it’s NOT just the US who isn’t grounding them.  Canada also has not.  Fiji Airways, IcelandAir, and FlyDubai are also still operating them today.  But we shall see if public opinion allows that to last.

Edited March 13, 2019 by ALFKAD

[Unidentified 2,930]

8 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Why should they ground them?  SWA and AAL operate (58) 737 MAX 8s, and UAL operates (14) 737 MAX 9s, and have had no issues.  (350 have been flying worldwide since January 2016).  Thousands upon thousands of flight hours, with data that is downloaded from the planes and put into computers to be analyzed, with no indication of problems.  Yes, it’s a new variant of a proven 737 base model, with new software and some new systems, but thus far, no one has been able to show a fault.  

 

Two failures in that many flight hours makes it hard to diagnose an actual fault, especially if they cannot retrieve the FDR data from te Indonesia flight.  Horrific loss of life, to be sure.  But unless the computers are able to find an anomaly that can be corrected with new parts or new software, grounding them will do little to correct any potential issues.

 

ETA: And it’s NOT just the US who isn’t grounding them.  Canada also has not.  Fiji Airways, IcelandAir, and FlyDubai are also still operating them today.  But we shall see if public opinion allows that to last.

Icelandair, FlyDubai and some Canadian airline have grounded their fleet. 

 

This was a barely 4-month-old airplane (in comparison to at least AA that has a fleet of MAX that is almost a year old by now) could be the MCAS flipping out again. Just doesn't feel safe to have an automated system preventing the airplane to stall because it wants to pitch up the nose due to the fact that they put bigger engines on a narrow body airplane and therefore where forced to put it slightly forward and up on the wing as well as raise the landing gear by 8 inches. Plus it's a system that Boeing didn't bother telling the pilots about until the Lion Air crash, not even telling them that in order for them to disengage the MCAS they need to manually pitch the aircraft. Good job Boeing. Don't want to overwhelm those "average pilots" with too much info. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,319]

I have read that there was a debris trail behind the aircraft as well as smoke. Sounds like part of the structure had been compromised. 

 

The PIC "Captain " was only 29.

[E & J 2018 132]

I fly a lot, so I will be watching this carefully..... It seems there is something wrong with this new plane or the training. I think the USA should ground it, until they determine what is going on.

[Unidentified 2,930]

And this is not about the US having better pilots. This about the FAA not having the guts to say lets ground a boeing plane. Former FAA safety director said it needs to be grounded. A former FAA employe just told my husband today that every FAA administration she's worked with since 1986 would have grounded them until "there was a review, diagnosis, and pilot training written. This is not normal". 

[Unidentified 2,930]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I have read that there was a debris trail behind the aircraft as well as smoke. Sounds like part of the structure had been compromised. 

 

The PIC "Captain " was only 29.

There's a lot of rumours going on. Looking at graphs from flightradar24 the plane had trouble gaining altitude after takeoff. 

[Dashinka 23,291]

3 hours ago, Unidentified said:

Icelandair, FlyDubai and some Canadian airline have grounded their fleet. 

 

This was a barely 4-month-old airplane (in comparison to at least AA that has a fleet of MAX that is almost a year old by now) could be the MCAS flipping out again. Just doesn't feel safe to have an automated system preventing the airplane to stall because it wants to pitch up the nose due to the fact that they put bigger engines on a narrow body airplane and therefore where forced to put it slightly forward and up on the wing as well as raise the landing gear by 8 inches. Plus it's a system that Boeing didn't bother telling the pilots about until the Lion Air crash, not even telling them that in order for them to disengage the MCAS they need to manually pitch the aircraft. Good job Boeing. Don't want to overwhelm those "average pilots" with too much info. 

I see some airlines are now going after Boeing for compensation of lost flight time.  Wonder what happens if it is found to be pilot error?  As to more and more automated systems, I keep hearing that these will cause fewer issues if we make all cars automated.  I am not an aerodynamic expert, but if Boeing put out an airplane that is not airworthy, they should go down in flames.  I doubt that is the case though considering all the requirements they have to meet to get an airworthy certification.  The thing that amazes me with this latest crash is that Ethiopia is resisting allowing the FDR to be reviewed which may contain some very important information.  Accident investigations take a long time usually, and often times the FDR and FCR are not even available, but in this case they are and politics is keeping them from being analyzed. 

[Dashinka 23,291]

1 hour ago, Unidentified said:

And this is not about the US having better pilots. This about the FAA not having the guts to say lets ground a boeing plane. Former FAA safety director said it needs to be grounded. A former FAA employe just told my husband today that every FAA administration she's worked with since 1986 would have grounded them until "there was a review, diagnosis, and pilot training written. This is not normal". 

Did the FAA ground every 737 when they had the rudder control issues?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

45 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Did the FAA ground every 737 when they had the rudder control issues?

 

   They did ground the 787's in 2013. The approach either of those cases was knowing what the problem was and making a decision. In this case it's not knowing for certain what is causing the problem. The choice is then whether to err on the side of caution or not. Unlike many other countries, the FAA seems not to be going that route. Hopefully they know what they are doing.