CR1 visa withdrawal can i have Tourist visa or Fiancee visa?

[Lee & Lei 42]

4 hours ago, acidrain said:

Thank you for sharing what the marriage and annulment process is in the Philippines. I am gathering if she signed wedding papers that would constitute she entered into the marriage in good faith regardless of whether there was proper officiating. Does anyone know whether the consulate would be in contact with the first husband or other relatives to discuss the circumstances surrounding her first marriage?

 

This is just my perception but the minute she filed for the annulment she validated her 1st marriage. If she felt she was never married or it was illegal one would expect the person to stand by that. Filing an annulment to me suggests she knew her first marriage was valid and needed to invalidate it. Does that make sense? If I were the interviewer I would be asking why she continued her application knowing her annulment had not gone through? That would constitute marriage fraud.

 

I don't think anybody is asking questions that are more difficult than what she will face if she continues. I've learned from my own experience every mistake no matter how big or small is flagged. The minute you sit down for your interview they know exactly who you are, whether you have applied before and any history of previous denials. The fact she is being so evasive suggests she still hasn't come to terms over her situation.

 

If I were the OP I would be seeking legal advice as she could face some very serious consequences if not handled appropriately. I would also be discussing  with her US citizen partner as to whether he wants the relationship to continue. It sounds like there would be a very long and difficult road ahead.

Just to shed some light on this, as someone married to a Filipina and working in a country with a LOT of OFWs...

 

The annulment process is extremely long and expensive. It can cost several hundred thousand pesos (50k pesos is roughly equivalent to 1k USD) and usually takes two years *minimum.* I've talked to quite a few people who were seeking annulments or had a significant other who was seeking one, and nobody I know has obtained one in less than two years... There is such a tremendous backlog of people trying to obtain an annulment that the wait can seem endless and hopeless too. 

 

FWIW, the US Embassy in Manila requires you to present what is called a CEMAR, or "Registry of Marriages" which demonstrates the full history of marriages on-record in the Philippines for the beneficiary. Many US Embassies in other countries also require this if the beneficiary is a Filipino, as it is undeniable proof of the validity of the marriage between the USC and the Filipino.

 

Also, for a Filipino to be eligible to legally marry, they are REQUIRED to obtain a CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriages) form, even if they want to marry a foreigner. And, even if they were to attempt to marry in another country outside of the Philippines, many foreign governments ALSO require a CENOMAR because it proves the Filipino party is single and able to contract marriage. So, this fact alone says that the OP did some shady business to get married to the USC in the first place and it was not ever truly legal. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Lee & Lei

[acidrain 325]

1 minute ago, Lee & Lei said:

Just to shed some light on this, as someone married to a Filipina and working in a country with a LOT of OFWs...

 

The annulment process is extremely long and expensive. It can cost several hundred thousand pesos (50k pesos is roughly equivalent to 1k USD) and usually takes two years *minimum.* I've seen people fight to obtain annulments for even longer than that. There is such a tremendous backlog of people trying to obtain an annulment that the wait can seem endless. 

 

FWIW, the US Embassy in Manila requires you to present what is called a CEMAR, or "Registry of Marriages" which demonstrates the full history of marriages on-record in the Philippines for the beneficiary. Many US Embassies in other countries also require this if the beneficiary is a Filipino, as it is undeniable proof of the validity of the marriage between the USC and the Filipino.

 

Also, for a Filipino to be eligible to legally marry, they are REQUIRED to obtain a CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriages) form, even if they want to marry a foreigner. And, even if they were to attempt to marry in another country outside of the Philippines, many foreign governments ALSO require a CENOMAR because it proves the Filipino party is single and able to contract marriage. So, this fact alone says that the OP did some shady business to get married to the USC in the first place and it was not ever truly legal. 

I find this particular topic fascinating as I am not familiar at all with marriages from the Philippines.

 

I just spent the past few minutes looking up divorce in the Philippines and am absolutely astounded it is against the law? Seriously? This is something I had absolutely no idea about. From what I gather getting an annulment is a lengthy process as it is the only way to get out of a legal marriage. Very few people are successful. Yikes!

 

I know I am getting slightly off topic here but what do people do when they no longer want to be married? Are they not able to get married to someone else? What happens when two people break up? They are still legally married??? Are people forced to stay married then? Is the OP supposed to be with her first husband? Can anyone shed light to the cultural norms?

 

Now that I have learned that tidbit of information I see what others are saying in this post. If marriage is such a sacred act in the Philippines it's next to impossible to believe the OP did not know what she was entering into.

[acidrain 325]

It appears that divorce might soon become legal (along with same sex marriage) in the Philippines according to this article from just 5 days ago: https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/11/20/house-to-act-soon-on-divorce-and-same-sex-marriage-bills/

[lonelygurl 0]

9 hours ago, Redheadguy03 said:

I asked the same thing lol. She seems to pick and choose what she answers. I don't think she likes being confronted about misrepresentation. 

If you were all reading my answers i said that the annulment is filed right after i found out about this marriage and that was 2 years ago. Im just waiting for the final decision now

 

So im asking is if its granted, my husband is better to marry me again and file spousal visa so i wont be caught by misinterpretation? 

 

And if the consular ask why i ddnt declare my previous marriage ill just say that i didnt know about it, and ill have them read my annulment petition and thats what its said

[Boiler 47,526]

If you did not know about it how come you filed an annulment?

[lonelygurl 0]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

If you did not know about it how come you filed an annulment?

Because when they asked me to get CENOMAR thats when i found out about it. And lawyers i asked about it adviced me to file annulment.

 

 

[geowrian 22,339]

So to sum up some points...

1. Tourist visa: very, very unlikely but the OP is permitted to apply.
   1. I don't think there is a formal misrepresentation bar in place (yet), but the past visa CR-1 process circumstances will be considered.
2. OP needs to get the annulment fully processed and then get remarried. Technically a K-1 could be an option, but I'd suggest a CR-1 here.
   1. This is assuming the US petitioner is still willing to go through the process.
3. OP has an extremely tough path ahead. A misrepresentation bar seems fairly likely in the future IMHO, which can be waived given there is a compelling case.
   1. An experienced immigration attorney that deals heavily with waivers is suggested.
4. Either child can petition for her once they turn 21. This tangled mess will still be considered (including a misrepresentation bar, if applied).

 

1 hour ago, acidrain said:

I just spent the past few minutes looking up divorce in the Philippines and am absolutely astounded it is against the law? Seriously? This is something I had absolutely no idea about. From what I gather getting an annulment is a lengthy process as it is the only way to get out of a legal marriage. Very few people are successful. Yikes!

 

I know I am getting slightly off topic here but what do people do when they no longer want to be married? Are they not able to get married to someone else? What happens when two people break up? They are still legally married??? Are people forced to stay married then? Is the OP supposed to be with her first husband? Can anyone shed light to the cultural norms?

To be a little more precise, divorce in the Philippines is only available in a very limited capacities. One is with a Sharia court ruling permitting it (although this is very limited and will not be recognized if it is determined to have been to evade existing law). Another is in circumstances with a marriage to a foreign national in which they initiate the divorce. In that case, the Filipino national can seek to have the divorce recognized in the Philippines via the court (which is also not easy or cheap, but better than an annulment).

 

In terms of applying for a US visa, a legal divorce anywhere is recognized. So if somebody is able to divorce outside the Philippines, it would still be recognized by the US Embassy in Manila despite the divorce not being recognized within the Philippines itself. They would still request a CENOMAR/CEMAR, but then the final divorce decree would show that the marriage was dissolved and is valid under US law.

 

Yeah, annulment is the most common method and the one available to the widest number of people, and it's not easy, cheap, or quick. Until the marriage is legally dissolved, they cannot marry again (legally). That said, there's many individuals who rely on (past) poor record keeping and/or "greasing the wheels" to get married again hoping that nobody would find out (hint: they do in US immigration). Or they just live a typical married life with somebody else despite not being legally married to them.

 

48 minutes ago, acidrain said:

It appears that divorce might soon become legal (along with same sex marriage) in the Philippines according to this article from just 5 days ago: https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/11/20/house-to-act-soon-on-divorce-and-same-sex-marriage-bills/

It has a lot of hurdles ahead still, and may even be considered unconstitutional if it somehow did become law. Time will tell, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

@OP Sorry for going off topic on the last 2 quotes!

Edited November 26, 2017 by geowrian

[Lee & Lei 42]

1 hour ago, acidrain said:

I find this particular topic fascinating as I am not familiar at all with marriages from the Philippines.

 

I just spent the past few minutes looking up divorce in the Philippines and am absolutely astounded it is against the law? Seriously? This is something I had absolutely no idea about. From what I gather getting an annulment is a lengthy process as it is the only way to get out of a legal marriage. Very few people are successful. Yikes!

 

I know I am getting slightly off topic here but what do people do when they no longer want to be married? Are they not able to get married to someone else? What happens when two people break up? They are still legally married??? Are people forced to stay married then? Is the OP supposed to be with her first husband? Can anyone shed light to the cultural norms?

 

Now that I have learned that tidbit of information I see what others are saying in this post. If marriage is such a sacred act in the Philippines it's next to impossible to believe the OP did not know what she was entering into.

It is because the Philippines is primarily a Catholic country, and under Catholic doctrine divorce is forbidden

 

I will PM you with further details so that we get this thread back on-topic. 

[Lee & Lei 42]

1 hour ago, lonelygurl said:

If you were all reading my answers i said that the annulment is filed right after i found out about this marriage and that was 2 years ago. Im just waiting for the final decision now

 

So im asking is if its granted, my husband is better to marry me again and file spousal visa so i wont be caught by misinterpretation? 

 

And if the consular ask why i ddnt declare my previous marriage ill just say that i didnt know about it, and ill have them read my annulment petition and thats what its said

They will still heavily scrutinize you. How you word your argument will make or break your case -- you would have to make a clear and convincing argument to the consular officer that you were coerced into a marriage with your ex both against your knowledge and against your wishes.

 

If your partner still wishes to proceed with this after you get your annulment, it is in your best interest to obtain an immigration lawyer specializing in misrepresentation cases. You will need all the help you can get.  

Edited November 26, 2017 by Lee & Lei

[Unlockable 7,322]

10 hours ago, lonelygurl said:

If you were all reading my answers i said that the annulment is filed right after i found out about this marriage and that was 2 years ago. Im just waiting for the final decision now

 

So im asking is if its granted, my husband is better to marry me again and file spousal visa so i wont be caught by misinterpretation?

The misrepresentation has already happened. You already filed a case where you stated you were free to marry when you were, in fact, were not. You can't get around what you already did. So the misrepresentation is on file.

 

Quote

And if the consular ask why i ddnt declare my previous marriage ill just say that i didnt know about it, and ill have them read my annulment petition and thats what its said

Now see, this is where it starts to get suspicious. From what you just stated above it is worded like this is the excuse that you are going to use. And to be honest, it sounds like you knew you were married, took a gamble and was caught, but are gonna used the "didn't know about it" excuse to get out of the mistake.

 

Please read carefully what I am about to say next because we are trying to help you understand. Everything you say and do can be used by the CO to get the information he needs to make a decision on your case. There have been questions that have been asked in this thread that you choose not to answer. and that is your business because this is a discussion forum. But when you are in front of a CO for an interview, those same hard questions are going to come up.  If I was a CO, just by the statements you have made so far, I would have a lot of follow up question.

 

For example...

How was it that you did not know that you were married to your ex?

How long of a relationship you had with your ex?

Were you ever engaged with your ex?

Did you two live together?

How is it that this marriage was registered if you didn't know about it? Did you sign anything?

Did you have any kind of ceremony?

Does your family know about the relationship you had with your ex?

Does you current boyfriend know about the relationship with your ex?

Since you say you did not know you were married, are you saying that your ex went as far as to fake a marriage and falsify/forge all the documents required to register your marriage?

 

There are tons more questions that come to mind but I hope you see the type of predicament you are in. This is why the whole, "I didn't know I was married" claim is not a strong excuse. No offense, but if I was a CO I would not believe that you had no idea that you were married. And as you can seem nearly everyone who responded feels the same.

 

You can move forward with this excuse because it seems you are committed to it. But be prepared for a denial.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

11 hours ago, lonelygurl said:

If you were all reading my answers i said that the annulment is filed right after i found out about this marriage and that was 2 years ago. Im just waiting for the final decision now

 

So im asking is if its granted, my husband is better to marry me again and file spousal visa so i wont be caught by misinterpretation? 

 

And if the consular ask why i ddnt declare my previous marriage ill just say that i didnt know about it, and ill have them read my annulment petition and thats what its said

You needed that form to get married.  Did you have one and if not how did you marry a USC in the first place?

 

http://www.filipiknow.net/how-to-get-married-in-the-philippines/

 

If you got a marriage with a USC pulled off "under the table" and skipped the proper documentation they'll probably tack on moral turpitude.  They scrutinize and backcheck every document.

 

Your chances of any kind of visa, immigrant or otherwise are probably near zero based on your answers here.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Nitas_man

[acidrain 325]

From what I understand and please correct me if I am wrong the OP went through the CR1 process. I presume just like it is for Canada she was asked to bring a number of documents to her interview including the CEMAR outlining she had never married before. I gather the OP either a) Requested the CEMAR and realized after getting it her prior marriage showed up or b) she didn't bother to get the CEMAR knowing her first marriage would be registered. She went to the interview anyway hoping the interviewer would not ask for the CEMAR. When the officer asked for it I gather is when the application for the CR1 was suddenly withdrawn. The officer would write that in his notes.

 

I understand what the OP is asking. She wants to know if the consulate figured out what happened. She never actually told them she was married to husband #1. Does the consulate run their own CEMAR before the interview? Perhaps someone can shed some light on that. I guess where misrepresentation would be looked at is whether she willingly knew in her interview she was not legally married. She could say she did not know but then if you have to provide a CEMAR how would that fly? Is this a situation where the Consulate could prove her intentions? I guess where I am confused is why she continued to go to the final interview for husband #2 if she knew she was still legally married to husband #1?

 

I guess I am confused on the timeline. The OP says she filed for the annulment 2 years ago but in her first post said she filed for the CR1 visa in 2015. It typically takes at least 1 year to complete the whole process. She wrote " the annulment is filed right after i found out about this marriage and that was 2 years ago ". The timeline would be crucial in determining intent. If she filed her annulment BEFORE her consulate interview it would show she very well knew she was legally married when she sat down with an officer. If she filed her annulment AFTER her consulate interview then perhaps she could use the "I didn't know" excuse. Although it's a very slippery slope because the CEMAR is required for her interview. How do you explain that?

 

I doubt the OP will share and it is more my curiosity but would want to know what her spouse knew and what time. I find it hard to believe the USC spouse went into the consulate interview knowing they were not legally married. Not only is this situation serious for the OP but for her spouse as well as it could be seen as misrepresentation on his part too.

 

All sorts of flags would be coming up at this point as to why the first application was not finalized. If she goes the fiance visa route that would be a really big flag (applying for a CR1 then K1). If the OP gets married again to husband #2 and the next officer sees the first CR1 application they will know their marriage became legal after the first CR1. Will they be understanding and say "oh well you are legally married to him now"? None of us know for certain. There are a lot of assumptions made on the OP part that she will be granted an annulment to husband #1. From what everyone is saying it is not an easy task.

 

More flags would be coming up as to what happened to her first marriage. When did she get married? What happened to the relationship? The timeline as to when she broke up with husband #1 and husband #2 would be examined. If there is overlap in dates they may even presume she left husband #1 to get a green card and move to the US. Obviously I do not know her set of circumstances but when these types of situations occur they raise a lot of questions.

[Ryan H 3,900]

***Two posts contributing nothing to the discussion removed; either post constructively or do not post.***

[lonelygurl 0]

13 hours ago, NuestraUnion said:

The misrepresentation has already happened. You already filed a case where you stated you were free to marry when you were, in fact, were not. You can't get around what you already did. So the misrepresentation is on file.

 

Now see, this is where it starts to get suspicious. From what you just stated above it is worded like this is the excuse that you are going to use. And to be honest, it sounds like you knew you were married, took a gamble and was caught, but are gonna used the "didn't know about it" excuse to get out of the mistake.

 

Please read carefully what I am about to say next because we are trying to help you understand. Everything you say and do can be used by the CO to get the information he needs to make a decision on your case. There have been questions that have been asked in this thread that you choose not to answer. and that is your business because this is a discussion forum. But when you are in front of a CO for an interview, those same hard questions are going to come up.  If I was a CO, just by the statements you have made so far, I would have a lot of follow up question.

 

For example...

How was it that you did not know that you were married to your ex?

How long of a relationship you had with your ex?

Were you ever engaged with your ex?

Did you two live together?

How is it that this marriage was registered if you didn't know about it? Did you sign anything?

Did you have any kind of ceremony?

Does your family know about the relationship you had with your ex?

Does you current boyfriend know about the relationship with your ex?

Since you say you did not know you were married, are you saying that your ex went as far as to fake a marriage and falsify/forge all the documents required to register your marriage?

 

There are tons more questions that come to mind but I hope you see the type of predicament you are in. This is why the whole, "I didn't know I was married" claim is not a strong excuse. No offense, but if I was a CO I would not believe that you had no idea that you were married. And as you can seem nearly everyone who responded feels the same.

 

You can move forward with this excuse because it seems you are committed to it. But be prepared for a denial.

I guess they can read the whole annulment statement i made explaining the whole case as all your questions are answered there 

[Unlockable 7,322]

22 minutes ago, lonelygurl said:

I guess they can read the whole annulment statement i made explaining the whole case as all your questions are answered there 

You are going to tell a CO during a live interview to read a statement you prepared instead of answering the question directly?