Hopping out and hopping in, VWP

[manchesterAMC 0]

Just looking for an understanding on the hopping out/hopping back in rules on the VWP. 

 

As UK residents, we're granted an ESTA which is valid for two years. 

 

We are planning a round the world trip where we will be spending approximately 18 months in the Americas. 

Obviously, the USA is huge and we want to spend a lot of time exploring so wanted to spend:

90 days in the USA

90 days in Canada

90 days back in the USA

followed by 90 days in Central America

then back to the USA for ~90 days.

then onto South America. 

 

What are the rules on border crossings with the VWP?

Would we have to go further afield than say Canada/Mexico?

 

The official website is pretty vague on how many times you can enter within the two years and how far you have to travel.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

That much time in the USA in such a close span could possibly get you turned around at the border.  It's at CBP's discretion.  Also anything more than 180 days in a 365 day period and you will be required to file taxes having substantial presence.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Transborderwife

[Crazy Cat 44,940]

I researched this topic 2 years ago when my (then, soon-to-be) wife visited me 2 times within 2 months. To my knowledge, there is no clear rule.  Every entry into the US is subject to scrutiny by the officer at the entry point. Equip yourselves with a lot of documentation showing ties to your country.

 

Note: My wife didn't have any problems at all entering via ESTA multiple times frequently.

[Mollie09 1,543]

More than 180 days in the US in a year and you have to file taxes as a resident.

Going to Canada and Mexico does not reset the 90 day clock for your stay.

[Dashinka 26,010]

I know applying for a visitor visa when you are from a VWP country is not usually a good idea, but in this case since it is a specific purpose, would that be a better option?  This may make you re-think your schedule and do one visit to the US to catch all your desired sites, but as said, jumping in and out of the US can bring a lot of border scrutiny as well as tax implications.

[Jojo92122 1,925]

Your plan is a difficult one.

 

You want to spend 9 months in the US in the first 15 months of your trip.  That's essentially living in the US with the ability to make short hops to nearby places.

 

If you use the VWP and get into the US on your first leg, you will run into trouble with re-entry into the US.  Going to Canada does not reset the 90 days clock on the VWP.  Spending too much time in the US is another reason for CBP to deny entry.

 

Even with a visitor visa, you could be denied entry if it's deemed you are spending too much time in the US and essentially living here illegally.

 

You may want to revise your travel plans and spend less time in the US.

 

Why not start in Canada and work your way south?  One 90 day entry into the US, then off to Mexico and points beyond.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Jojo92122

[yuna628 9,889]

Your plan will land you tossed out of the US and on the next plane back home, never to return, unless you have a visa. There have been many examples of individuals from the UK that have tried this, and they wind up having a rather unpleasant experience before being punted.

 

 

[manchesterAMC 0]

Seems like we may have to revise a little. 

 

We've done a similar trip in 2015 so we could cover the National Parks at the west coast and we had no problems at all when we reentered under the VWP.

 

We did:

 

90 days USA

2 months Central America

90 days USA (re-entering from Costa Rica)

 

Successfully, no questions asked, we did have proof of onward travel to Hong Kong and copies of bank statements, employment leave of absence email, etc.

 

On the official US embassy website for London, it doesn't state clearly whether Canada is an acceptable 'hop out' destination, can somebody point me in the direction of an official source of info?

 

We want to spend 2-3 months in Hawaii hence the last re-entry of our plan.

 

Thanks a lot for your help so far. 

[Jojo92122 1,925]

2 minutes ago, manchesterAMC said:

Seems like we may have to revise a little. 

 

We've done a similar trip in 2015 so we could cover the National Parks at the west coast and we had no problems at all when we reentered under the VWP.

 

We did:

 

90 days USA

2 months Central America

90 days USA (re-entering from Costa Rica)

 

Successfully, no questions asked, we did have proof of onward travel to Hong Kong and copies of bank statements, employment leave of absence email, etc.

 

On the official US embassy website for London, it doesn't state clearly whether Canada is an acceptable 'hop out' destination, can somebody point me in the direction of an official source of info?

 

We want to spend 2-3 months in Hawaii hence the last re-entry of our plan.

 

Thanks a lot for your help so far. 

Going to Central America allowed you to reset your VWP time.

 

Here is the information from the US State Department; https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html

 

If you are admitted to the United States under the VWP, you may take a short trip to Canada, Mexico, or a nearby island and generally be readmitted to the United States under the VWP for the remainder of the original 90 days granted upon your initial arrival in the United States. Therefore, the length of time of your total stay, including the short trip, must be 90 days or less. See the CBP website. Citizens of VWP countries* who reside in Mexico, Canada, or a nearby island are generally exempted from the requirement to show onward travel to another country* when entering the United States. Learn more on the CBP website.

[manchesterAMC 0]

Perfect, thanks so much Jojo92122!

[Transborderwife 4,666]

44 minutes ago, manchesterAMC said:

Seems like we may have to revise a little. 

 

We've done a similar trip in 2015 so we could cover the National Parks at the west coast and we had no problems at all when we reentered under the VWP.

 

We did:

 

90 days USA

2 months Central America

90 days USA (re-entering from Costa Rica)

 

Successfully, no questions asked, we did have proof of onward travel to Hong Kong and copies of bank statements, employment leave of absence email, etc.

 

On the official US embassy website for London, it doesn't state clearly whether Canada is an acceptable 'hop out' destination, can somebody point me in the direction of an official source of info?

 

We want to spend 2-3 months in Hawaii hence the last re-entry of our plan.

 

Thanks a lot for your help so far. 

This is no longer 2015, new sheriff in town

[Georgia16 2,858]

Just remember 90 days is the allowed time on VWP you may want to cut it to like 86-88 days or something so you won't end up overstaying if flight is delayed or something

[jan22 3,181]

1 hour ago, Jojo92122 said:

Your plan is a difficult one.

 

You want to spend 9 months in the US in the first 15 months of your trip.  That's essentially living in the US with the ability to make short hops to nearby places.

 

If you use the VWP and get into the US on your first leg, you will run into trouble with re-entry into the US.  Going to Canada does not reset the 90 days clock on the VWP.  Spending too much time in the US is another reason for CBP to deny entry.

 

Even with a visitor visa, you could be denied entry if it's deemed you are spending too much time in the US and essentially living here illegally.

 

You may want to revise your travel plans and spend less time in the US.

 

Why not start in Canada and work your way south?  One 90 day entry into the US, then off to Mexico and points beyond.

The entry into Mexico will not reset the VWP clock either.  You must leave the US and it's contiguous territories, including Canada, Mexico, and most of the Caribbean, except for short trips that are taken within the original 90 days (i.e., the entire trip must be within the 90 days).  You can spend 90 days in the US (including the travel days into and out of the US, no matter how short a time you are actually in the US on those days) and then travel to the southern most point you plan to visit, working your way back up through Mexico to re-enter the US.  Not sure how to fit Canada into the plan, though.  Depending on your personal AL situation, you might be better off applying for a visitor visa.

[3rd 84]

That's an incredible length of time to visit the states. I know a lot of my friends take a month here and there over the span of a couple years and do the states in sections. It's possible to see most of what you want in a shorter space of time. The general rule of thumb with the VWP is to spend more time out of America as you do in. So if you're visiting for the full 90 days, you'll wanna be outside of it for at least 180 days. I recall when I went on a week trip for my best friends wedding in NC in March (5 years ago), and promptly booked tickets to come back and visit for the summer as they had a pool. I cam back in July for 2 weeks and got a lot of scrutiny even though it had been months since I was last in the states, and even though it had only been a short visit. 

 

It's better to be cautious. I think the advice of starting in Canada, making you way down and then ending up in Mexico is your best bet. Once your VWP gets revoked it'll be hard to get a visitor visa for any future visits.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

How about starting in Canada - then 90 days in the US - then 90 days in Central America, 90 days in South American - then back to Hawaii for the last leg. You'll have been out of the US for 180 days by the time you try to reenter so it might cause fewer issues at the border.