RFE - joint marital asset evidence

[NikLR 13,220]

Just showing her on the account would be good enough I'm sure. The signature card is a bit much IMHO, but hey, if you feel better, send it!

[r060106 109]

Just showing her on the account would be good enough I'm sure. The signature card is a bit much IMHO, but hey, if you feel better, send it!

Well, there's no account opening date on the statements. So I kind of had to if I wanted to not get the request the OP got with statements showing an account opening. You think it might hurt us?

[Cathi 5,624]

Hello VJ Friends,

I would like to ask for your opinion on our issue.

After almost 9 long months waiting for NOA2 we got a RFE and here it goes:

"* Submit joint marital asset evidence described on page one."

On the page one there is one box checked:

"Submit copies of documents that will support your application for permanent residence which were filed based on your marriage.

Documents to be submitted are lease/mortgage contracts showing joint occupancy/ownership of your communal residence,

insurance policies(health, car/life), financial records showing joint ownership of assets or joint responsibility for liabilities, such

as joint savings/checking accounts (bank statements should show the date the account was opened), joint tax returns,

joint installments or other loans, utility bills. if you live with relatives or friends, a lease in their name(s) must be submitted

with a notarized affidavit from them attesting to the living arrangements and your monthly rent obligations."

Looks like whatever stated above does not apply to us because:

1. Our US home is in my USC spouse's name he owned it before we met, so there is no joint lease/mortgage/ownership.

2. Insurance policies? Yeah, there is only a car insurance with both our names on it.

3. We are filing taxes as married but separately because it works better for both us.

4. We do not have any of financial records mentioned above as every home bill is on USC's name as it was before we got married,

cars and other stuff has been leased on separate names way before we decided to marry.

The reason we do not have any joint installments or joint bank accounts is because my spouse left the U.S. for business trip a 2 weeks after our wedding and got returned at POE on the way back

Of course we share our finances on a daily basis, shopping, airfare tickets (we travel a lot), gifts, restaurants, but that is it.

How can we prove our joint marital assets without evidence but car insurance ?

Any help is appreciated

Just because the utility bills were in your spouse's name only before you got married does not mean you cannot be added to them now. I added my husband to the electric and gas bills with just a simple phone call. They didn't ask for any form of ID or his SS#.

[SimonBelgium 49]

I've seen examples popping up all over the internet for "proof of bonafide relationship" being joint accounts, lease/mortage and so on, but unless the beneficiary has the right to live in the US (and therefore has a SSN and such), how on earth does one go about doing that?

It's hard enough we can't live together for a year or more due to the extremely long processing period, to hear they could give us a hard time because we respected the law and didn't live together...

In any case, we are including mail, chat logs, skype call logs, pictures, boarding passes etc...

[Tunc 0]

I am life insurance agent and you can get life insurance for your wife even if she has no income at all. They probably wont insure her for a 10 million policy but a level term policy with a face amount of 250,000 should be easy to get assuming she is insurable. When life insurance companies underwrite they look at the household income, not necessarily whether she is working or not. Contact a professional agent in your area. You are probably looking at a cost of 20 to 30 a month.

[slvrfx576 15]

Hello VJ Friends,

I would like to ask for your opinion on our issue.

After almost 9 long months waiting for NOA2 we got a RFE and here it goes:

"* Submit joint marital asset evidence described on page one."

On the page one there is one box checked:

"Submit copies of documents that will support your application for permanent residence which were filed based on your marriage.

Documents to be submitted are lease/mortgage contracts showing joint occupancy/ownership of your communal residence,

insurance policies(health, car/life), financial records showing joint ownership of assets or joint responsibility for liabilities, such

as joint savings/checking accounts (bank statements should show the date the account was opened), joint tax returns,

joint installments or other loans, utility bills. if you live with relatives or friends, a lease in their name(s) must be submitted

with a notarized affidavit from them attesting to the living arrangements and your monthly rent obligations."

Looks like whatever stated above does not apply to us because:

1. Our US home is in my USC spouse's name he owned it before we met, so there is no joint lease/mortgage/ownership.

2. Insurance policies? Yeah, there is only a car insurance with both our names on it.

3. We are filing taxes as married but separately because it works better for both us.

4. We do not have any of financial records mentioned above as every home bill is on USC's name as it was before we got married,

cars and other stuff has been leased on separate names way before we decided to marry.

The reason we do not have any joint installments or joint bank accounts is because my spouse left the U.S. for business trip a 2 weeks after our wedding and got returned at POE on the way back

Of course we share our finances on a daily basis, shopping, airfare tickets (we travel a lot), gifts, restaurants, but that is it.

How can we prove our joint marital assets without evidence but car insurance ?

Any help is appreciated

Filing your taxes as "married filing separately" is proof that your are NOT co-mingling your finances ! Exactly the opposite of what USCIS wants. Note that your RFE refers to "joint tax returns".

BTW, rarely does filing separately result in a lower tax liability. That all changed about 10 years ago. Suggest you amend your separate returns to "married filing joint"......because that is proof of co-mingling your finances, and as a bonus your might even get a refund !

[r060106 109]

I am life insurance agent and you can get life insurance for your wife even if she has no income at all. They probably wont insure her for a 10 million policy but a level term policy with a face amount of 250,000 should be easy to get assuming she is insurable. When life insurance companies underwrite they look at the household income, not necessarily whether she is working or not. Contact a professional agent in your area. You are probably looking at a cost of 20 to 30 a month.

She cannot have it done without an SSN. I was told this by both my lawyer and financial advisor. So other than having a policy from Poland, she won't be taking out a life insurance policy anytime soon. It will just have to be me and that will have to suffice for USCIS.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Rysiu227

[christeen 966]

Filing your taxes as "married filing separately" is proof that your are NOT co-mingling your finances ! Exactly the opposite of what USCIS wants. Note that your RFE refers to "joint tax returns".

BTW, rarely does filing separately result in a lower tax liability. That all changed about 10 years ago. Suggest you amend your separate returns to "married filing joint"......because that is proof of co-mingling your finances, and as a bonus your might even get a refund !

Everyone's tax situation is different and although GENERALLY it is true that married filing jointly is better, that is not necessarily the case, especially in cases where taxes are owed to IRS, one owns a business or if there are HOH deductions... And married filing seperatly IS still filing together as you are claiming married but that you prefer to calculate your taxes, for whatever motivation, seperately... It should not hurt the OP.

OP... Are you still in Italy or living in the US? Take out a term life insurance and list as benificerary, call and have her added to account or just put her on as an authorized user on your debit or credit card...

[Tunc 0]

I would ask a different financial advisor. There is no state law requiring a SSN for life insurance. There is a requirement that there are here legally and present. Even people who are waiting for refugee status can get life insurance and they dont have a SSN. I write life insurance for tourists who are visiting the USA and they dont have SSN either. Find a new financial advisor who knows life insurance. Lawyers are horrible in giving advice about Life insurance also. I am sorry but I am not licensed in your state of Wisconsin. If you cant find an agent on your own, post your question on the life insurance forum and state your state. They should be able to help.

[AdamA 0]

We received basically the same RFE for my wife's permanent green card. Want additional proof of joint indebtedness. Had been on extension, so we hadn't included most recent tax returns. We have one account together but house was mine previously and we have mostly separate accounts. Just because my wife brought money from Russia and I have a business, other assets etc. before our marriage.

I sent in a 1" notebook with tax returns, bills in both names, bank statements, paychecks showing I paid over $10,000 for her heath insurance since marriage, tuition paid by me, additional pictures, car title together(sent before). House loan is our only debt and we aren't big credit card users, so not much there.

They asked about children, which hurt my wife's feelings since we had a miscarriage. Even included proof of that although it's really personal.

They just received it today, so I don't know if it's enough. Hopefully is is because I don't know what else to send!

[Ketsuban 1,034]

I've seen examples popping up all over the internet for "proof of bonafide relationship" being joint accounts, lease/mortage and so on, but unless the beneficiary has the right to live in the US (and therefore has a SSN and such), how on earth does one go about doing that?

It's hard enough we can't live together for a year or more due to the extremely long processing period, to hear they could give us a hard time because we respected the law and didn't live together...

In any case, we are including mail, chat logs, skype call logs, pictures, boarding passes etc...

I couldn't agree more. That is the evidence I will be including. I do send him $500 a month via Paypal to help him pay off his car, but this is a one-way thing and quite weak financial co-mingling. I also have a Skype screenshot of him giving me his login details for his online paystubs, but again...

To have joint accounts, you need to be a resident. To become a resident, you need joint accounts! Logic?

[NikLR 13,220]

You do not need to be a resident to have joint accounts. I had a joint checking account with my husband before I moved to the USA. The bank just needs to know what the heck they are doing. If the person at the front doesn't ask for a manager, or find a new branch or even a new bank. We have USAA, but it's a military based bank. Ask them about a w8ben form instead of an SSN and make sure it's not an interest bearing account (checking vs savings.) You can also try to add a spouse as an extra card holder on a credit card. My husband added me to the vehicle insurance as well and others have added spouses as beneficiaries of their 401k or other retirement investments. A person doesn't need an SSN to be the beneficiary of a will either. There are many ways to do it, they just take a little bit of work more often than not.

[NikLR 13,220]

Well, there's no account opening date on the statements. So I kind of had to if I wanted to not get the request the OP got with statements showing an account opening. You think it might hurt us?

Nope, I just thought it was overkill. If you want to include it, go ahead.

Remember your wife is from poland, she isn't from a high fraud country. Don't refer to what someone says is necessary for the Philippines, China, Nigeria or India as your gospel for you. Those USC spouses need to go all out to prove they have a genuine relationship because of the amount of fraud. That doesn't mean you can sit on your butt, however just try not to worry so much. It's bad for the digestion! **wink wink**

[Ketsuban 1,034]

You do not need to be a resident to have joint accounts. I had a joint checking account with my husband before I moved to the USA. The bank just needs to know what the heck they are doing. If the person at the front doesn't ask for a manager, or find a new branch or even a new bank. We have USAA, but it's a military based bank. Ask them about a w8ben form instead of an SSN and make sure it's not an interest bearing account (checking vs savings.) You can also try to add a spouse as an extra card holder on a credit card. My husband added me to the vehicle insurance as well and others have added spouses as beneficiaries of their 401k or other retirement investments. A person doesn't need an SSN to be the beneficiary of a will either. There are many ways to do it, they just take a little bit of work more often than not.

I understand you were able to add yourself on to these things, and I am happy for you, but I vividly remember being told over and over "sorry, we can't help" by the managers (we did always ask for them when front desk said no)

My husband isn't able to join any other banks at present (they seem to have weird conditions like he has to pay in more a month than he even earns), and his current bank manager said no.

His life insurance company said no.

His health insurance, we actually could... but there was a 30-day-post-marriage-deadline to do this by, which we had no inkling of o.o so no longer an option.

Credit cards, no go. His credit is shot due to his parents who wrecked it for him before he could utilise it! He is slowly building it up, but is rejected for cards/loans/stuff all the time.

401k, if that's a pension plan he has to contribute to, he isn't in a financial position to do so.

I ask this in the most sincere way... are there any other options? We will gladly go for them!

[NikLR 13,220]

Try RBC USA for a bank. I made an account there when I was still in Canada.

They require $25 in the bank right away, then another XX amount in the next month. ($50 I want to say.) Fees are like $3 a month.

But honestly, this is really not a big deal for most people. Especially if you have lots of other evidence. I am very surprised the OP got this kind of RFE. It makes me wonder if they already live together and are filing for AOS not a CR1 visa. The USCIS does understand that couples who do not live together, rarely have this kind of evidence, which is why they ask for such a wide variety of stuff.

BTW does your husband have a car? He can try to add you to his car insurance. It normally gives him a better rate too.