4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Four firefighters were shot -- two fatally -- as they responded to a large fire early Monday in Webster, N.Y., in the northwestern part of the state.

When firefighters arrived on the scene of the blaze around 6 a.m. ET, they were fired upon by one or more shooters, police and fire officials said.

Firefighters were forced to flee by the gunfire. The two firefighters who were hit but survived are being treated at a local hospital for their wounds.

SWAT teams are on the ground and helicopters are hovering in the air.

“I’m not aware of anything like this happening in Webster, obviously not a firefighter being fired upon,” Webster Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said, according to the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle.

Police say there is no longer an "active shooting" situation, but residents of the area are being evacuated, and police are searching them as they leave, the newspaper reported.

After the shooting, the fire grew to engulf at least three homes and one motor vehicle.

Michael Damico was among those forced to flee, according to the Democrat and Chronicle.

“The whole strip’s been evacuated,” Damico said. “They’re evacuating all of the houses and going through them.”

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/24/16125861-4-firefighters-shot-2-dead-after-responding-to-blaze?lite

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Edited December 24, 2012 by spookyturtle

[Dakine10 5,452]

We need to arm all firefighters and place an armed guard on every street corner. If everyone carried at least 1 3 concealed handguns, we could stop these tragedies from happening. More guns are the answer.

[Robby999 1,024]

How could this happen in New York? I thought New York had strict gun control laws in place already, are you telling me the shooters in this case failed to obey the law? I can only assume the shooter/s were either domestic terrorists, mentally ill, or criminals. I can not understand why these type of people do not obey the law, do they not know these laws are intended to protect people from crime and violent assaults? Well if it was domestic terrorism we will never be told and the NRA will be blamed, if it was a mental case the true facts are protected from public disclosure by Federal privacy laws and the NRA will be blamed, and if it was a known criminal responsible for this shooting the NRA will be blamed and not the revolving door policies of the criminal justice system.

[Dakine10 5,452]

How could this happen in New York? I thought New York had strict gun control laws in place already, are you telling me the shooters in this case failed to obey the law? I can only assume the shooter/s were either domestic terrorists, mentally ill, or criminals.

Well my guess is they got their guns the same way any other domestic terrorists, mentally ill, or criminals do. Either they legally exercised their constitutional right to be armed to the teeth, or else they picked up a weapon that some other irresponsible jackass left lying out for anyone to get their hands on.

[Robby999 1,024]

Well my guess is they got their guns the same way any other domestic terrorists, mentally ill, or criminals do. Either they legally exercised their constitutional right to be armed to the teeth, or else they picked up a weapon that some other irresponsible jackass left lying out for anyone to get their hands on.

So basically the shooters blew off all the gun control laws of New York to perform this terrible act! I now see how effective gun control laws are when criminals, nut-cases, and domestic terrorist are concerned. Do you actually think these type of people will obey ANY law the anti-gun crowd wants to pass? The Department of Homeland Security can not control people entering this country illegally, how can you think they can control guns that they basically do not know the whereabouts or quantity of? We can't even get this government to enforce immigration law, you really think they are ready to jump on the second amendment?

[Dakine10 5,452]

So basically the shooters blew off all the gun control laws of New York to perform this terrible act! I now see how effective gun control laws are when criminals, nut-cases, and domestic terrorist are concerned. Do you actually think these type of people will obey ANY law the anti-gun crowd wants to pass? The Department of Homeland Security can not control people entering this country illegally, how can you think they can control guns that they basically do not know the whereabouts or quantity of? We can't even get this government to enforce immigration law, you really think they are ready to jump on the second amendment?

Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law. Thus it makes sense to look at ways to limit their access to guns. When you start to break down these incidents, you can see two trends. People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to, or people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms.

[Robby999 1,024]

Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law. Thus it makes sense to look at ways to limit their access to guns. When you start to break down these incidents, you can see two trends. People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to, or people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms.

Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law

People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to,= blackmarket or Fast and Furious ( take your pick )

people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms= burglary is a criminal act also.

So, the common denominator here is crime. The Constitution does not grant the right to be a criminal, but it does grant me the right to defend my family, my home, and myself against criminals. So you strap a cop to your back and I will keep CW and we both can be happy!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law

People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to,= blackmarket or Fast and Furious ( take your pick )

people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms= burglary is a criminal act also.

So, the common denominator here is crime. The Constitution does not grant the right to be a criminal, but it does grant me the right to defend my family, my home, and myself against criminals. So you strap a cop to your back and I will keep CW and we both can be happy!

This!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Generally, police are supposed to be first to the scene to establish whether a threat exists.

[sara..... 371]

Generally, police are supposed to be first to the scene to establish whether a threat exists.

shooot if our little town of 600 waited for a cop the fire would burn for about twenty minutes to two hours after the call was made.........we only have county sheriff here and they patrol a large area........

sara

[JimandChristy 1,689]

If only those firefighters "good guys" were armed.

[Dakine10 5,452]

If only those firefighters "good guys" were armed.

They were ambushed. If they were armed, the first 2 would still be dead.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law

People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to,= blackmarket or Fast and Furious ( take your pick )

people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms= burglary is a criminal act also.

OK then. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away. Arming everyone and making it easier to get guns is not going to reduce gun related crime. If you want to make it about your second amendment rights that's fine. You can't have it both ways, so stop pretending you can.

[Bumbero 130]

Generally, police are supposed to be first to the scene to establish whether a threat exists.

Generally, IF there is a possibility that a threat exists. We don't go charging in to scenes when there is an assault, suicidal ideations, drugs involved, etc. We DO go charging in to structure fires. There was NO way that any of us would wait for police to clear the scene of a structure fire. Unless, when 911 was called there was a report of a subject with a gun seen in the area.

You should google the Youtube posting of the radio traffic of one of the victims. He is shot twice and STILL manages to keep it together the entire time. He gives constant updates on everything he sees including fire progression as it spreads to the home next to it. I would post the link but I can't access Youtube at work. THAT is a hero IMO.

[Bumbero 130]

No surprise here..

NY FIREFIGHTER MURDERS: Webster Shooter Identified, Had History Of Crime

Monday, December 24, 2012 Webster Police have identified the gunman in Monday morning's deadly shooting as 62-year-old William Spengler.

Police say Spengler died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

One of the properties involved in Monday’s deadly fire/shooting was the scene of a crime more than 30 years ago.

According to public records, William Spengler has owned the home at 191 Lake Road for more than three decades. He was convicted of manslaughter in 1981 after he discovered his grandmother, Rose, 92, dead inside the home next door in July 1980.

Spengler spent 17 years in prison. According to state officials, he was released in 1998 and completed his parole in 2006.

Police say the house is still an active crime scene. Spengler lived at 191 Lake Road with his sister. She is still unaccounted for.

Seven houses were destroyed in Monday's fire.

http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/177922