Are Bar Girls Disqualified From Getting a Visa?

[Misha♥Jeff 12]

Can we cut out the euphemisms here? I've never been to Asia and thus an unfamiliar with "bar girls" but what I assume you are saying is that you paid a prostitute to have sex with her and then decided that you wanted to bring her to the United States. What you should know, if that is the case, is that once she has to file for adjustment of status, she will have to answer the following questions:

Also keep in mind that she will have to, on multiple occasions, declare ALL of her recent employment. Maybe you could try to put "bar girl" down, but it seems to me that the honest answer is "prostitute."

Keep in mind that all of these forms are sworn statements signed under penalty of perjury.

How blatantly unsympathetic is that response?

I see too much judgement being cast on the OP's fiance, and none of us knows her. Girls enter prostitution for many reasons. But the primary reason is MONEY, and almost always, the girl is not the main beneficiary of that revenue. Bar girls in SE Asia are no exception. BUT to assume that everyone who enters the sex trade is bad person with no moral fortitude is not fair and completely naive. Greed does not drive these girls, desperation does. I was so saddened by the abject poverty in which many people live in the Philippines. When a girl sees her family starving, with no hope that things will change, and living in conditions that we wouldn't even wish for our family pet, imagine the power of conscience that would drive her to sacrifice her dignity and leave home for that lifestyle. I certainly will not judge a girl who makes that sacrifice, despite everything she was taught to be "right" in a religious upbringing.

I feel badly for the OP and his fiance. The message they are getting here leaves them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. If they tell the truth, she will be denied. If they lie, the truth will come out and she will be denied and banned. Not much hope for their future, is there?

I will assume that the OP has found the love of his life and that is why he wants to marry her, love her and support her...and she feels the same way. Here is what I would say: "I was out with my friends and while we were in a club, I met the most beautiful girl. We talked about life and danced the night away. The rest is history"

[Karee 4,189]

How blatantly unsympathetic is that response?

I see too much judgement being cast on the OP's fiance, and none of us knows her. Girls enter prostitution for many reasons. But the primary reason is MONEY, and almost always, the girl is not the main beneficiary of that revenue. Bar girls in SE Asia are no exception. BUT to assume that everyone who enters the sex trade is bad person with no moral fortitude is not fair and completely naive. Greed does not drive these girls, desperation does. I was so saddened by the abject poverty in which many people live in the Philippines. When a girl sees her family starving, with no hope that things will change, and living in conditions that we wouldn't even wish for our family pet, imagine the power of conscience that would drive her to sacrifice her dignity and leave home for that lifestyle. I certainly will not judge a girl who makes that sacrifice, despite everything she was taught to be "right" in a religious upbringing.

I feel badly for the OP and his fiance. The message they are getting here leaves them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. If they tell the truth, she will be denied. If they lie, the truth will come out and she will be denied and banned. Not much hope for their future, is there?

I will assume that the OP has found the love of his life and that is why he wants to marry her, love her and support her...and she feels the same way. Here is what I would say: "I was out with my friends and while we were in a club, I met the most beautiful girl. We talked about life and danced the night away. The rest is history"

I used to think that as well. Three years in Bangkok changed my mind real quick. Maybe the Philippines is different. The girls in Bangkok would send scraps back home and spend the rest on themselves or maybe some brutal Thai bioyfriend or husband that whopped their a$$ on a regular basis. Hardly any of that money flows back up country.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

In the OP's case it seems possible to honestly answer no to all 3 questions. Considering question #2, have you been a prostitute? Unless your are charged with the crime and convicted, the answer is no, in the eyes of the state. Only a court of law can deem you a prostitute. Anything else is personal opinion.

Your post instructs the OP, or his fiancee, to make a material misrepresentation to the DOS and/or the DHS. That is a violation of the TOS, as Krikit has warned.

Bar-girl and Cam-girl are very different things.

Bar-girl though too I suppose could mean many things, not ALL bar-girls engage in prostitution, but I think in general the term is used mostly for those that do.

Cam-girls, if you mean someone performing on a webcam or something like that, is something else entirely and isn't in any way illegal. Prostitution requires in person contact.

Here's my .02

IF you are 100% honest with them, admit that you both engaged in prostitution, you 0% chance of getting her a visa.

IF you lie and don't get caught, you may succeed. I think people might give too much credit to them being about find out things like this on their own. Except I do believe they are pretty good about telling if someone is lying. Yet I'm sure it happens all that time that people fabricate stories of how they met.

IF you lie and get caught, she will face a ban, you will be in trouble as well. Probably not much would actually happen to you, I highly doubt they'd press charges and try to send you to jail. But they COULD. Probably not worth the risk.

I certainly don't recommend you lie. But I also think it's a bit ridiculous that prostitution is one of the things that can immediately deny you a visa, when in at least one area of the US (part of Nevada) prostitution is LEGAL. But whatever.

I think it's a real shame how many poor girls, out of desperation, are taken driven to it out of necessity, and are then forced to bear the stigma and consequences of it for a long time.

The thing you probably SHOULD do is to hire a good lawyer. Ask him/her what options you have, if any. If you really love this person, and she loves you, I wouldn't presume to say something as crass as 'never marry a bar-girl'. She's still a PERSON isn't she? As if the fact that she might have been driven to that, or that the OP chose to engage in prostitution is none of MY business.

He shouldn't lie, but I personally don't either of those should immediately disqualify two people who might actually really be in love. I suspect not ALL relationships of this type end in failure, maybe a lot do, but these people ought to have a chance at happiness too.

But you have a VERY tough case ahead of you if you proceed.

As is this post.

How blatantly unsympathetic is that response?

I see too much judgement being cast on the OP's fiance, and none of us knows her. Girls enter prostitution for many reasons. But the primary reason is MONEY, and almost always, the girl is not the main beneficiary of that revenue. Bar girls in SE Asia are no exception. BUT to assume that everyone who enters the sex trade is bad person with no moral fortitude is not fair and completely naive. Greed does not drive these girls, desperation does. I was so saddened by the abject poverty in which many people live in the Philippines. When a girl sees her family starving, with no hope that things will change, and living in conditions that we wouldn't even wish for our family pet, imagine the power of conscience that would drive her to sacrifice her dignity and leave home for that lifestyle. I certainly will not judge a girl who makes that sacrifice, despite everything she was taught to be "right" in a religious upbringing.

I feel badly for the OP and his fiance. The message they are getting here leaves them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. If they tell the truth, she will be denied. If they lie, the truth will come out and she will be denied and banned. Not much hope for their future, is there?

I will assume that the OP has found the love of his life and that is why he wants to marry her, love her and support her...and she feels the same way. Here is what I would say: "I was out with my friends and while we were in a club, I met the most beautiful girl. We talked about life and danced the night away. The rest is history"

And another.

Edited September 21, 2012 by The Patriot

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

There are numerous posts containing Terms of Service violations in this thread. Any further such posts will be removed and the poster will be thread-banned. Violation reference:

19) Condone or instruct, either directly or indirectly, others on how to commit fraudulent or illegal immigration activities in any way, shape, manner or method.

Just in case you missed this.

[Mogambi 96]

Um, my post in NO WAY recommended he do any such thing. I merely posited possible outcomes of such action. Did you see in my post where I recommend he HIRE A LAWYER and do it the proper and truthful way? I don't believe that her doing what she did should disqualify her, but I CERTAINLY don't think he should lie to USCIS, the US Embassy or anyone else.

[Tarumba 9]

From people's previous post it looks like this poor girl is still being degraded! I can not believe someone just basically said not to marry this girl ( that they dont know themselves) because she's a bar girl! Since the man did not ask for relationship advice I think some of your judgmental statement about this woman should be kept to yourself. I mean afterall someone is marrying you as judgemental as you are so I dont know why your marriage is more likely to serve then theirs.

Op just br cautious, do some extensive research before you start your application. So you both know the best way to handle it.

:thumbs: You are a truly compassionate person, QueenE. I agree with you entirely. This girl did not choose to have this life. It's easy to sit down in your comfy living room and moralize and say "I would rather die than do that!", but until you are there yourself, you can't really know. I personally know I would totally go down that path rather than starve or let my parents starve. I would hate it and it would scar my mind and my soul, but whatever, no choice. I count my lucky stars that I wasn't born into such a horrendous situation.

OP, my advice is to reformulate the truth in your head. This is the way you will be able to most convincingly get away with passing the interview without technically lying. For example, you gave her money. Did she buy you an ice cream/cook you dinner/send you letters later in the relationship? Then she has also given you material things. So, you share your things, just like any couple would. No need to go further. The more information you give them, the more it looks like you are trying to cover something up. Dinner was on my husband in our first date. See? That's how it goes.

If she worked at a bar, then she worked at a bar. Ask her to work as a bartender for a while and she can simply say that's what she's doing. Or maybe cleaning, I dunno. Presumably she changed jobs now? My 2 cents is: There is no way for them to verify she was/was not a sex worker, unless one of you admits it. Do not. Start drilling that into your heads now.

I never, ever give advice like this. But this is a subject that is close to my heart. Being a sex worker is not a sign of moral turpitude. It's a sign that this woman was in such desperate economical conditions that she had to resort to endanger herself physically, psychologically and emotionally to make a living. This is the case with almost all "bargirls" in the third world. Refusing a visa to a woman for this is victim blaming, IMO.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Most people on here are exchanging money at some point. I sent my fiancee money and also gave some money to her and her family. However there was never a discussion as to specifically the reason for giving money. Do you really need to disclose all your personal conversations?

I guess I would have liked to see the responses if this topic were posted by a RUB member in the RUB forum.

TBone is correct. The problem with this process is that you are interviewed and scrutinized far more than once, the visa is the beginning, not the end. If it is discovered you concealed or lied about material issues, and being a prostitue is a material issue, AT ANY POINT in the process all benefits can be revoked. Now we can all play nice little games but the fact is she worked as a prostitute and that something that makes her inadmissable. Not making any judgements here, I do not care and have virtually no morals myself. I think prostitution should be legakl and women should not be told by the governemnt that they cannot rent their assets to anyone they want. Seems like oppression of women to me, especially when we freely let them GIVE IT AWAY. Makes no sense, but them's the facts.

If you conceal that fact, and it is found out in the future, she can lose all benefits, including citizenship. Just be aware of what you are doing.

[Karee 4,189]

How do you know she didn't choose tolive this life?

[Tarumba 9]

How do you know she didn't choose tolive this life?

How do you know she did, and which one is more likely?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

:thumbs: You are a truly compassionate person, QueenE. I agree with you entirely. This girl did not choose to have this life. It's easy to sit down in your comfy living room and moralize and say "I would rather die than do that!", but until you are there yourself, you can't really know. I personally know I would totally go down that path rather than starve or let my parents starve. I would hate it and it would scar my mind and my soul, but whatever, no choice. I count my lucky stars that I wasn't born into such a horrendous situation.

OP, my advice is to reformulate the truth in your head. This is the way you will be able to most convincingly get away with passing the interview without technically lying. For example, you gave her money. Did she buy you an ice cream/cook you dinner/send you letters later in the relationship? Then she has also given you material things. So, you share your things, just like any couple would. No need to go further. The more information you give them, the more it looks like you are trying to cover something up. Dinner was on my husband in our first date. See? That's how it goes.

If she worked at a bar, then she worked at a bar. Ask her to work as a bartender for a while and she can simply say that's what she's doing. Or maybe cleaning, I dunno. Presumably she changed jobs now? My 2 cents is: There is no way for them to verify she was/was not a sex worker, unless one of you admits it. Do not. Start drilling that into your heads now.

I never, ever give advice like this. But this is a subject that is close to my heart. Being a sex worker is not a sign of moral turpitude. It's a sign that this woman was in such desperate economical conditions that she had to resort to endanger herself physically, psychologically and emotionally to make a living. This is the case with almost all "bargirls" in the third world. Refusing a visa to a woman for this is victim blaming, IMO.

Who cares if she chose it or not? I am pro-choice. But prostitution makes her inadmissiable and lying about it jeapordizes her future. Just be aware of what you do. You want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane for fun? Go for it! You know what can happen and choose to do it.

[Karee 4,189]

You clearly stated she did not choose this life. I never stated she did.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I see the OP is still monitoring the thread, so I hope he succeeded in getting what he wanted. We can all whine and moan about how unfair all this is, but since this is a legal immigration website, and members are limited by the TOS we agreed to, the best we can do is to advise the OP to follow the law, and to answer all questions truthfully, completely, without omission, or intent to deceive.

Edited September 21, 2012 by The Patriot

[Tarumba 9]

You clearly stated she did not choose this life. I never stated she did.

Look, don't be pedantic. Add a "very likely"there if it makes you feel better.

[Anabolic_Ben 2]

Wow wasn't expecting near so many responses within 24 hours, but the topic is no doubt a hot button issue that invokes emotions from just about everyone.

I really don't want to get into a moral discussion about prostitution but to those who gave pragmatic advice on what I asked about thank you.

I think I have the answer I was looking for so I want to thank everybody for their help.

Cheers

[Tarumba 9]

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