What are my rights?

[gflower 0]

Once I'm married to my US fiance and we have children together in America, I have heard some alarming rumours about the lack of rights a non-citizen has. I know of a couple (wife English, husband American) who were having major problems with their marriage, but the wife wouldn't cut the chord with him because if she did, he would have custody of the children. Also whenever she tries to take the children out of the USA and he's not present, he has to write a letter allowing her to take them out.

My mother is now saying that she'll never speak to me again if I don't give birth to my children in the UK! So I think I'm definitely going to have them in the States

This story makes me wonder at what rights a non-American citizen has when they're living permanently in America, not just concerning children but everything. Are we non citizens protected?

Where can I find this kind of information out?

Thanks!

[VanessaTony 3,567]

We have the same rights as a citizen except we can't vote.

Yes, you need permission from the children's other parent to take the children out, the same is said of anyone. Not just LPR's. Even if you gave birth in the UK as soon as the kids are here you need permission. It's the same in many countries actually.

The issue of your friends is a lie. Probably a lie the husband has told her. It's state dependant but most states now award joint custody. Some award custody where the child lives with one parent the majority of the time (during school or whatever) but sees the other parent during holidays and all that. The risk of losing custody IS there, just as it's there for him so she's probably staying with him so she can be there for the kids 24/7.

If she took the children out of the country and wouldn't bring them back, without a custody agreement, he could go to court and make life quite difficult for her.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f3f43a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f3f43a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

Edited November 20, 2011 by Vanessa&Tony

[xxxwabbiexxx 70]

Hope you don't mind me asking but is your mother being serious or just kidding around?

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

You need permission of both parents even if you are both citizens. It is not an LPR kind of thing. You need both parents to give permission for minors to get a passport as well.(there are exceptions for those with sole custody and I was able to get my daughter a passport without her always absent father) It is recommended to travel with a notarized letter from the other parent in case you are asked for it by CBP: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/268/~/traveling-with-children---child-traveling-with-one-parent-or-someone-who-is-not

Sometimes a judge will have it stipulated in the divorce decree that the other parent cannot take the child out of state or country without permission from the other parent, a court order, or they just cannot at all. I was lucky enough that mine stated clearly the children could travel with me wherever I went.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Jay-Kay

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

There are a few differences, the major one being you have to be always ready to prove legal presence if not a USC. One of the things stressed at the wife's oath ceremony was that she no longer has to prove her legal presence in the US.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Hope you don't mind me asking but is your mother being serious or just kidding around?

I'm sure the OPs mother is like mine, serious about the concern, not serious about the disowning.

My mother is concerned about my in-laws taking custody should something happen to us. So we're making sure our Wills are up to date and have my family as guardians, not his.

[Boiler 45,692]

If it is not clear it does not matter where they are born, they would be dual citizens.

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

***** Moving from AOS to General Immigration Discussion *****

[Alex B 9]

Once I'm married to my US fiance and we have children together in America, I have heard some alarming rumours about the lack of rights a non-citizen has. I know of a couple (wife English, husband American) who were having major problems with their marriage, but the wife wouldn't cut the chord with him because if she did, he would have custody of the children. Also whenever she tries to take the children out of the USA and he's not present, he has to write a letter allowing her to take them out.

For the rights issue I certainly was extremely uncomfortable with what happened after 9/11. This rights issue was one of the major drivers to my applying for naturalization. In reality the only time you could have a problem is if convicted of a crime for which the sentence could be more than 1 year. I seem to recall having seen some reports that they would even add up different sentences and deport people.

There is no automatic custody. It's down to each state. Here in Washington it's assumed that joint custody will be granted unless someone petitions the court otherwise. At that point my atty said I'd need psychologist reports etc. Thankfully my divorce was a very low-key affair without disagreement.

This whole needing a letter is a farce, plain and simple.

I've been divorced from my daughter's mom for a number of years. I do have a letter because we both believe that the one thing we want less than to be married to each other is the government messing around in our business. We state in the letter that it covers all trips for a 12 month period.

My experiences:

1) Canada - have been crossing the border every 1-2 weeks for about 2 years. Maybe 25% of these crossings I have my daughter with me so that makes about 12-13 crossings. I've been asked for the letter twice. Once I had it and no problem. Once I didn't have it and the Canadian border guard told me I "really should have it" and let me pass.

2) UK - Both myself and my daughter are dual nationals. The last flight we made back to London I asked British Airways if they needed something and they said they'd never heard of it. Of course, entering the UK we both use our UK passports.

3) Mexico - We've crossed the San Ysidro/Tijuana border on foot. You go through one turnstile to leave the US. Go through another turnstile to enter Mexico. One customs shack with a random inspection in-between. No questions, no asking to see the letter.

4) China - The consulate did ask for a letter, "but if I didn't have one that wouldn't be a problem".

These rules are just a way of punishing honest people. If I really wanted to abscond with my daughter it would be trivial. All it does is give people a false sense of security.

[Alex B 9]

My mother is now saying that she'll never speak to me again if I don't give birth to my children in the UK! So I think I'm definitely going to have them in the States

Forgot to mention this one. If you do decide to give birth in the US your daughter is still eligible to be a UK citizen. IIRC you get 2 generations born outside of the UK before they cut you off. (Check this on the foreign office website, it was easy to find). I didn't register my daughter's birth with the British Embassy but I did apply for her passport. Supposedly it's a whole lot simpler because you cut out a step.

One funny story was in applying for a UK passport the embassy called me up and asked to see her US passport. I asked, since when was a US passport a pre-requisite for a UK passport and the woman at the embassy fell strangely silent and then said, it's OK we don't really need it. If you're a British mother then your children will automatically get UK citizenship. As a British father I had to sign an affidavit stating that I had not been previously married because at the time (don't know if its changed) only legitimate offspring can be granted citizenship on the paternal line.

[xxxwabbiexxx 70]

I'm sure the OPs mother is like mine, serious about the concern, not serious about the disowning.

My mother is concerned about my in-laws taking custody should something happen to us. So we're making sure our Wills are up to date and have my family as guardians, not his.

Oh my, I never even thought about that!! We don't have kids yet but hell yes they'll be going to England to my sister, brother-in-law and mother if anything should ever happen to the both of us!!!

[gflower 0]

Oh my, I never even thought about that!! We don't have kids yet but hell yes they'll be going to England to my sister, brother-in-law and mother if anything should ever happen to the both of us!!!

My mum (I love her) is controlling and is only concerned about her welfare sadly. If anything tragic happened and it was my fiance's parents who got custody of our children I can tell you that they'd have a much more loving and healthy upbringing. Disloyal to say, but true!

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Oh my, I never even thought about that!! We don't have kids yet but hell yes they'll be going to England to my sister, brother-in-law and mother if anything should ever happen to the both of us!!!

Really?

This is a bigger question than it seems. Imagine your children first going through the trauma of losing both their parents, and then ripping out of the country they've lived in all their life.

[gflower 0]

For the rights issue I certainly was extremely uncomfortable with what happened after 9/11. This rights issue was one of the major drivers to my applying for naturalization. In reality the only time you could have a problem is if convicted of a crime for which the sentence could be more than 1 year. I seem to recall having seen some reports that they would even add up different sentences and deport people.

There is no automatic custody. It's down to each state. Here in Washington it's assumed that joint custody will be granted unless someone petitions the court otherwise. At that point my atty said I'd need psychologist reports etc. Thankfully my divorce was a very low-key affair without disagreement.

This whole needing a letter is a farce, plain and simple.

I've been divorced from my daughter's mom for a number of years. I do have a letter because we both believe that the one thing we want less than to be married to each other is the government messing around in our business. We state in the letter that it covers all trips for a 12 month period.

My experiences:

1) Canada - have been crossing the border every 1-2 weeks for about 2 years. Maybe 25% of these crossings I have my daughter with me so that makes about 12-13 crossings. I've been asked for the letter twice. Once I had it and no problem. Once I didn't have it and the Canadian border guard told me I "really should have it" and let me pass.

2) UK - Both myself and my daughter are dual nationals. The last flight we made back to London I asked British Airways if they needed something and they said they'd never heard of it. Of course, entering the UK we both use our UK passports.

3) Mexico - We've crossed the San Ysidro/Tijuana border on foot. You go through one turnstile to leave the US. Go through another turnstile to enter Mexico. One customs shack with a random inspection in-between. No questions, no asking to see the letter.

4) China - The consulate did ask for a letter, "but if I didn't have one that wouldn't be a problem".

These rules are just a way of punishing honest people. If I really wanted to abscond with my daughter it would be trivial. All it does is give people a false sense of security.

Thanks for this. My fiance is a travel writer so obviously there will be times when I take 'the kids' abroad to go and visit him. I guess I'll get my letter laminated!

[xxxwabbiexxx 70]

Really?

This is a bigger question than it seems. Imagine your children first going through the trauma of losing both their parents, and then ripping out of the country they've lived in all their life.

His parents are older so that wouldn't be fair on the parents because it would add a lot of stress and the children because having older 'parent's' bring lots of restrictions and realistically they could be up rooted again in say 5 years time.

His sister is amazing, and if she weren't married to a hot head who looses his cool and the drop of a hat and who is selfish and gets upset at the age of 30 if were not doing what he wants to do or if he's not centre of attention, they she would get custody of any children we have no questions.

My sister has been with her husband 11 years and has a very very stable and secure life, plus we have had the same upbringing which we'll pass on to our children - both my sister and I want to pass a very similar upbringing to that of our own on to our children.

So yes hands down that would be more than a better option for the people who count most should the worst happen and thats the children!!!!