Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[Phil N 4]

Hello VisaJourney friends,

My Ukrainian fiance recently arrived from Odessa. I am 47, she is 39. Also, her young teenage daughter came with her.

Since she got here, she has been ice cold physically to me, with a few exceptions, and seems to be trying to use withholding sleeping with me to get me to marry her immediately. I have read several of these types of scenarios on VisaJourney, involving Russian/Ukrainian women, and to me it seems they always turn out badly for the man, especially when he gives in and marries her promptly. Am I wrong, and can this ever turn out well? I feel like just sending my girl back, as I will NOT be in a relationship with any woman who uses withholding of physical affection as a way to try to manipulate me to get what she wants. I have plenty of other options in the USA for women, but I really thought this girl could be the right one for me. She has created phony conflicts and used excuse after excuse to avoid me physically, and for 8 of the 10 nights here so far, has slept in a separate room with her daughter, avoiding me. Should I wait this out and work through it, or pull the plug now? Are Russian/Ukrainian women "coached", by Internet discussion, and Russian friends who know US laws to use this tactic to get American men to marry them quickly, so as to be in position to manipulate the man, get a VAWA 360 petition, etc.? Or is this normal behavior from a scared and insecure woman?

I visited her twice in Ukraine, (Odessa area) in the last 18 months. First time in April 2010 for a week, and I proposed to her at the end of the visit. Second time was in April 2011 for two weeks, and this time the relationship turned intimate, sort of. After a few times early in the visit, she created arguments, and slept in with her daughter for several nights. She was very nervous and emotional for much of the visit. It was only when I told her I had lost interest in her with only a few days to go that she "rediscovered" what a desirable man I am. I decided to bring her to the USA anyway, and see if she could just be a normal calm woman here.

Day 1: I pick them up at airport, we stop and shop and get marriage license on the way home from airport. Intimate relations that night.

Day 2: More shopping and getting things for them, visits to SSA, etc. At night she "needed her space" from me in bed.

Day 3: Morning, I attempt to initiate intimate relations, in morning, based on her statements in Ukraine, "Phil, TAKE what you want". I get shut down, she gets up. I put on a porn movie (she asked for this when in Ukraine) rather than just meekly accepting the shutdown. I ask her what happened to "take what you want", she complains over and over again about how messy the room is, no way could she possibly have relations in such a room, it kills her feelings, etc. I ask her to create a list of 10 things that need to be done to the room to make it more comfortable, so I can work away at those.

Later that day, a major fight, she created over an outing I arranged for her daughter to meet a pen pal, I wanted to get daughter there on time, mom wanted 5 more minutes of instruction to daughter. She blew up at me, for trying to get out the door without the (repeated) 5 minutes of instructions, and then decided that her daughter would not go at all, to punish me (and her daughter) for being so insensitive towards her. I confess I let an F-word slip at that point, as I was utterly disgusted. She then said she would call the police on me, she had rights, etc. Then she went up to our room, began screaming she wanted a ticket home, not in 3 months, but tomorrow. I was ready to send her home right then, and I moved her bag into the room that her daughter was staying in.

My adult children were visiting later that day for dinner with us for the first time, and I wound up preparing a lame dinner and my kids were puzzled at why she wasn't cooking and I was doing all the work. (She was phony-social with them, they were unimpressed)

Things seem to ease. I tell her I want her things back in my room and her to be with me. I grab her hand and she pulls away and says tauntingly to me that I am not a "good man" and I will never be f--ing her and I can only kiss her a--. I slept alone that night, of course.

Day 4: She moves back into my room. But "no touch" in bed, she needs her space fully separate from me. On this day, she also tells me she has learned that she apparently has no rights in this country until we are married.

Day 5: I take her and daughter to a very romantic ocean beach. They can't tell difference between "beach" and "######" and we joke about it as I say the words for them. Later, driving to a different beach, requested to stop at ladies room, it is on the left, beach is ahead, I point to beach and say "beach" then to ladies room and say "ladies room", back and forth a couple times. She decides that I am saying "bitches to ladies room" and insulting them. I get the shun and silent treatment from mom (and daughter, not daring risk mom's disapproval) for the brief beach visit, I get out of car and walk on the beach, they don't, and then I get silent, pouting treatment all the way home, 1.5 hour drive, while they converse in Russian. About an hour into the drive, thinking things may have settled down, I pat her on the shoulder, at one point, affectionately, and she reaches out and slaps my hand. That night, she decides to stay in with her daughter and not with me in "our" bed. Again, in hindsight, almost feeling like a manufactured argument to avoid me.

Day 6: My last day off. I decide to go visit a friend to talk things over, and I visit from 11am to about 4pm, leaving her at home. She protests why I need to leave and talk to someone, when my new family needs my time here at home. I tell her it is needed for my own happiness and sanity. I go anyway, and have a great time. I get silent, pouting, avoiding treatment when I get home, and eventually she tells me I love myself, and I enthusiastically agree. I think she was trying to say I was being selfish and I love "only" myself. I sleep alone again, of course.

Day 7: I'm back to work. I come home at noontime. She says she wants to show me something upstairs. It turns out she wanted to give me a quickie nooner. I happily oblige. Afterwards, she asks when we will be married, why not right away. I eventually agree to marry her in 5 days, the next Monday, after she agrees she will return to our bed, and will create time for us to spend together each evening, "intimate time" just to hold each other and talk. That night, I find that her idea of "intimate time" is fully clothed cuddling on the couch in the bedroom, and then going to sleep in her daughter's bed again, leaving me to sleep alone. I feel manipulated and betrayed. I change my mind about marrying her so soon within a few minutes after she left and tried to rewrite our understanding.

Day 8: A very nice and pleasant day, the best in many respects. I've arranged for her daughter to go to a sports camp. She is almost affectionate with me while we are out shopping. I wait until that evening right after dinner when we are alone, to tell her that Monday is too soon for me.

She asked me for three reasons. I said that we still do not know each other well enough. Then I said that it is not possible to get to know each other fully while she still sleeps in her daughter's room. She answered that this will not change, it will be this way until after we are married, and abruptly went upstairs. I cleaned up after dinner. She brings up the moving-her-suitcase from Day 3 as the reason, even though she stayed with me in our bed a night after that.

Day 9: I come home from work at noon, to take her daughter to day 2 of the sports camp. She begs off, saying she is not feeling well, and without her there, her daughter cannot go. But she is well enough to be cleaning the refrigerator with incredible energy! (She is a clean freak) Interesting...

I tell her that it is OK this time, I do not doubt, but if this becomes a pattern, it will seem like excuses. She acknowledges.

That night when I come home I tell her I am going out dancing (swing dance lessons) and then to the gym. She scolded me that I should be home with my new family. I told her I need this for my own health and happiness, and it was unfortunate she missed out on my time and attention by cancelling on the sports camp. She did not pursue it much further, even resigned. I asked if she would like to come to the gym with me, she declines.

When I get home, about 9:30, from dancing lessons, skipped gym, she is avoiding me, but eventually I find her while she smokes outside. She tells me angrily that maybe I can just have my life, since having my life is so important to me. It was almost a logical tone, rather than screaming. I told her that my time was hers tomorrow night and all weekend. She curses me out in Russian, with violent gestures. I jokingly translate as different tortures she wants to do to me. She smiles and laughs wickedly and says more emphatic Russian words with emphatic gestures, then leaves a few moments later. Later I knock on the daughters bedroom door where she is again staying, to share information about plans for the next day, and she ignores my knock.

Day 10: I come home from work at noon, she seems to be in a good mood, wearing new jeans she got when shopping on day 8. We make plans for the weekend to clean and rearrange the master bedroom.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

- My girl is totally fluent in English and worked as an interpreter and translator. Language is not a problem, though cultural differences abound

- She has two higher educations, but was unemployed and in dire economic circumstances at home

- She served as the interpreter for another American man who married a woman from her city, and this man told me about her and is a great friend

- She has many friends who married American men, and she sees that they seem happy. Many she also was an interpreter for when their husbands courted them in Ukraine.

- She is very cautious with my money now that she is here, very frugal. She is not trying to milk me for a lot of cash.

- She spends her time cleaning, cleaning, cleaning all things in my house, especially the kitchen and laundry room.

- I believe she may have some emotional/psychological issues involving emotional control.

- She is an extremely emotional girl in any case, but also very practical at the same time.

- She is extremely stubborn and it is very difficult for her to give in or admit wrong in any disagreement.

- She has moments of clarity and insight and love and spirituality that floor me from time to time.

- When she is calm, she is like a different person

- Our strengths are complementary and we have the potential to be an amazing team, if we can survive each other. I chose and pursued her because she is my polar opposite in many ways. I knew some parts would involve disagreeing and trying to meet in the middle.

- I think she picked me because I was the one man who was able to deal with her emotions and not run away, screaming

- I met her online on a very reputable Russian dating site, and we clicked very well by email and phone, she "got" my humor

- I believe that she is similar to a widow, psychologically, as she lost a long-term boyfriend suddenly about 3 years ago.

- She has "tested" me, as women do to men, in so, so many ways, and it's wearing me out.

- I am a reasonably desirable and attractive man, very fit, and have good options in USA for women. I liked her and chose to pursue her...

- I say we are a well matched couple in attractiveness when out. She seems to still think she is a hot 25 year old all men want, but is 20 kilos and 15 hard years past that. I think part of her mind is convinced she should be with Vin Diesel or Antonio Banderas, not me.

- I love her. But I am not sure I can survive her...

- Her daughter is a wonderful child, cool teenager, and we get along great. The only problems are when mom puts her in the middle.

QUESTIONS

1) Trying to use withholding of intimacy to pressure me into a quick marriage, how huge a red flag is this? Has this scenario ever turned out well for a man, that people know of? I've read so many stories where it turned out awful for the man.

2) Is her erratic behavior within reasonable bounds for a very emotional Ukrainian woman adjusting to life in a new country? What are the odds she will settle down and we can have a normal, happy marriage, based on what you have read above?

3) What other advice do people have for me about this situation? Run for the hills? Hang in there? I'm especially interested in feedback from Russian/Ukrainian women, who have gone through this adjustment to a new country, and their point of view.

4) Where else, other Russian/Ukrainian women bulletin boards, might I post this circumstance to get thoughtful advice and feedback?

Thank you VJ'ers for thoughtful comments, insults about my insensitivity, etc. All welcomed.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Phil N

[James And Oksana 19]

Hello VisaJourney friends,

My Ukrainian fiance recently arrived from Odessa. I am 47, she is 39. Also, her young teenage daughter came with her.

Since she got here, she has been ice cold physically to me, with a few exceptions, and seems to be trying to use withholding sleeping with me to get me to marry her immediately. I have read several of these types of scenarios on VisaJourney, involving Russian/Ukrainian women, and to me it seems they always turn out badly for the man, especially when he gives in and marries her promptly. Am I wrong, and can this ever turn out well? I feel like just sending my girl back, as I will NOT be in a relationship with any woman who uses withholding of physical affection as a way to try to manipulate me to get what she wants. I have plenty of other options in the USA for women, but I really thought this girl could be the right one for me. She has created phony conflicts and used excuse after excuse to avoid me physically, and for 8 of the 10 nights here so far, has slept in a separate room with her daughter, avoiding me. Should I wait this out and work through it, or pull the plug now? Are Russian/Ukrainian women "coached", by Internet discussion, and Russian friends who know US laws to use this tactic to get American men to marry them quickly, so as to be in position to manipulate the man, get a VAWA 360 petition, etc.? Or is this normal behavior from a scared and insecure woman?

I visited her twice in Ukraine, (Odessa area) in the last 18 months. First time in April 2010 for a week, and I proposed to her at the end of the visit. Second time was in April 2011 for two weeks, and this time the relationship turned intimate, sort of. After a few times early in the visit, she created arguments, and slept in with her daughter for several nights. She was very nervous and emotional for much of the visit. It was only when I told her I had lost interest in her with only a few days to go that she "rediscovered" what a desirable man I am. I decided to bring her to the USA anyway, and see if she could just be a normal calm woman here.

Day 1: I pick them up at airport, we stop and shop and get marriage license on the way home from airport. Intimate relations that night.

Day 2: More shopping and getting things for them, visits to SSA, etc. At night she "needed her space" from me in bed.

Day 3: Morning, I attempt to initiate intimate relations, in morning, based on her statements in Ukraine, "Phil, TAKE what you want". I get shut down, she gets up. I put on a porn movie (she asked for this when in Ukraine) rather than just meekly accepting the shutdown. I ask her what happened to "take what you want", she complains over and over again about how messy the room is, no way could she possibly have relations in such a room, it kills her feelings, etc. I ask her to create a list of 10 things that need to be done to the room to make it more comfortable, so I can work away at those.

Later that day, a major fight, she created over an outing I arranged for her daughter to meet a pen pal, I wanted to get daughter there on time, mom wanted 5 more minutes of instruction to daughter. She blew up at me, for trying to get out the door without the (repeated) 5 minutes of instructions, and then decided that her daughter would not go at all, to punish me (and her daughter) for being so insensitive towards her. I confess I let an F-word slip at that point, as I was utterly disgusted. She then said she would call the police on me, she had rights, etc. Then she went up to our room, began screaming she wanted a ticket home, not in 3 months, but tomorrow. I was ready to send her home right then, and I moved her bag into the room that her daughter was staying in.

My adult children were visiting later that day for dinner with us for the first time, and I wound up preparing a lame dinner and my kids were puzzled at why she wasn't cooking and I was doing all the work. (She was phony-social with them, they were unimpressed)

Things seem to ease. I tell her I want her things back in my room and her to be with me. I grab her hand and she pulls away and says tauntingly to me that I am not a "good man" and I will never be f--ing her and I can only kiss her a--. I slept alone that night, of course.

Day 4: She moves back into my room. But "no touch" in bed, she needs her space fully separate from me. On this day, she also tells me she has learned that she apparently has no rights in this country until we are married.

Day 5: I take her and daughter to a very romantic ocean beach. They can't tell difference between "beach" and "######" and we joke about it as I say the words for them. Later, driving to a different beach, requested to stop at ladies room, it is on the left, beach is ahead, I point to beach and say "beach" then to ladies room and say "ladies room", back and forth a couple times. She decides that I am saying "bitches to ladies room" and insulting them. I get the shun and silent treatment from mom (and daughter, not daring risk mom's disapproval) for the brief beach visit, I get out of car and walk on the beach, they don't, and then I get silent, pouting treatment all the way home, 1.5 hour drive, while they converse in Russian. About an hour into the drive, thinking things may have settled down, I pat her on the shoulder, at one point, affectionately, and she reaches out and slaps my hand. That night, she decides to stay in with her daughter and not with me in "our" bed. Again, in hindsight, almost feeling like a manufactured argument to avoid me.

Day 6: My last day off. I decide to go visit a friend to talk things over, and I visit from 11am to about 4pm, leaving her at home. She protests why I need to leave and talk to someone, when my new family needs my time here at home. I tell her it is needed for my own happiness and sanity. I go anyway, and have a great time. I get silent, pouting, avoiding treatment when I get home, and eventually she tells me I love myself, and I enthusiastically agree. I think she was trying to say I was being selfish and I love "only" myself. I sleep alone again, of course.

Day 7: I'm back to work. I come home at noontime. She says she wants to show me something upstairs. It turns out she wanted to give me a quickie nooner. I happily oblige. Afterwards, she asks when we will be married, why not right away. I eventually agree to marry her in 5 days, the next Monday, after she agrees she will return to our bed, and will create time for us to spend together each evening, "intimate time" just to hold each other and talk. That night, I find that her idea of "intimate time" is fully clothed cuddling on the couch in the bedroom, and then going to sleep in her daughter's bed again, leaving me to sleep alone. I feel manipulated and betrayed. I change my mind about marrying her so soon within a few minutes after she left and tried to rewrite our understanding.

Day 8: A very nice and pleasant day, the best in many respects. I've arranged for her daughter to go to a sports camp. She is almost affectionate with me while we are out shopping. I wait until that evening right after dinner when we are alone, to tell her that Monday is too soon for me.

She asked me for three reasons. I said that we still do not know each other well enough. Then I said that it is not possible to get to know each other fully while she still sleeps in her daughter's room. She answered that this will not change, it will be this way until after we are married, and abruptly went upstairs. I cleaned up after dinner. She brings up the moving-her-suitcase from Day 3 as the reason, even though she stayed with me in our bed a night after that.

Day 9: I come home from work at noon, to take her daughter to day 2 of the sports camp. She begs off, saying she is not feeling well, and without her there, her daughter cannot go. But she is well enough to be cleaning the refrigerator with incredible energy! (She is a clean freak) Interesting...

I tell her that it is OK this time, I do not doubt, but if this becomes a pattern, it will seem like excuses. She acknowledges.

That night when I come home I tell her I am going out dancing (swing dance lessons) and then to the gym. She scolded me that I should be home with my new family. I told her I need this for my own health and happiness, and it was unfortunate she missed out on my time and attention by cancelling on the sports camp. She did not pursue it much further, even resigned. I asked if she would like to come to the gym with me, she declines.

When I get home, about 9:30, from dancing lessons, skipped gym, she is avoiding me, but eventually I find her while she smokes outside. She tells me angrily that maybe I can just have my life, since having my life is so important to me. It was almost a logical tone, rather than screaming. I told her that my time was hers tomorrow night and all weekend. She curses me out in Russian, with violent gestures. I jokingly translate as different tortures she wants to do to me. She smiles and laughs wickedly and says more emphatic Russian words with emphatic gestures, then leaves a few moments later. Later I knock on the daughters bedroom door where she is again staying, to share information about plans for the next day, and she ignores my knock.

Day 10: I come home from work at noon, she seems to be in a good mood, wearing new jeans she got when shopping on day 8. We make plans for the weekend to clean and rearrange the master bedroom.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

- My girl is totally fluent in English and worked as an interpreter and translator. Language is not a problem, though cultural differences abound

- She has two higher educations, but was unemployed and in dire economic circumstances at home

- She served as the interpreter for another American man who married a woman from her city, and this man told me about her and is a great friend

- She has many friends who married American men, and she sees that they seem happy. Many she also was an interpreter for when their husbands courted them in Ukraine.

- She is very cautious with my money now that she is here, very frugal. She is not trying to milk me for a lot of cash.

- She spends her time cleaning, cleaning, cleaning all things in my house, especially the kitchen and laundry room.

- I believe she may have some emotional/psychological issues involving emotional control.

- She is an extremely emotional girl in any case, but also very practical at the same time.

- She is extremely stubborn and it is very difficult for her to give in or admit wrong in any disagreement.

- She has moments of clarity and insight and love and spirituality that floor me from time to time.

- When she is calm, she is like a different person

- Our strengths are complementary and we have the potential to be an amazing team, if we can survive each other. I chose and pursued her because she is my polar opposite in many ways. I knew some parts would involve disagreeing and trying to meet in the middle.

- I think she picked me because I was the one man who was able to deal with her emotions and not run away, screaming

- I met her online on a very reputable Russian dating site, and we clicked very well by email and phone, she "got" my humor

- I believe that she is similar to a widow, psychologically, as she lost a long-term boyfriend suddenly about 3 years ago.

- She has "tested" me, as women do to men, in so, so many ways, and it's wearing me out.

- I am a reasonably desirable and attractive man, very fit, and have good options in USA for women. I liked her and chose to pursue her...

- I say we are a well matched couple in attractiveness when out. She seems to still think she is a hot 25 year old all men want, but is 20 kilos and 15 hard years past that. I think part of her mind is convinced she should be with Vin Diesel or Antonio Banderas, not me.

- I love her. But I am not sure I can survive her...

- Her daughter is a wonderful child, cool teenager, and we get along great. The only problems are when mom puts her in the middle.

QUESTIONS

1) Trying to use withholding of intimacy to pressure me into a quick marriage, how huge a red flag is this? Has this scenario ever turned out well for a man, that people know of? I've read so many stories where it turned out awful for the man.

2) Is her erratic behavior within reasonable bounds for a very emotional Ukrainian woman adjusting to life in a new country? What are the odds she will settle down and we can have a normal, happy marriage, based on what you have read above?

3) What other advice do people have for me about this situation? Run for the hills? Hang in there? I'm especially interested in feedback from Russian/Ukrainian women, who have gone through this adjustment to a new country, and their point of view.

4) Where else, other Russian/Ukrainian women bulletin boards, might I post this circumstance to get thoughtful advice and feedback?

Thank you VJ'ers for thoughtful comments, insults about my insensitivity, etc. All welcomed.

I am sorry, but what you describe is nothing what being with my Oksana is like. I understand there will be cultural differences. But honestly, it sounds as if there are several issues, none of which are good at all. Finding the right woman is sometimes hard, and it sounds as if this is not what is best for either of you.

But to answer your questions, no, I have not nor do I ever see a situation that withholding intimacy to gain some advantage is a good thing. I can understand when a person is upset or something, but if you feel she is using it to gain the marriage, then you already know in your heart what is going on.

I can tell you from my experience, while Oksana and I have had our minor differences, we are both mature adults that WANT to be together and WANT to do ALL things that bring our relationship closer. Love is patient, kind, understanding...and it does not seem that is what you guys have.

I will not give you any advice on what to do, it is your choice. But no, a mature and healthy relationship with anyone is nothing like this. And with the right person will make you feel like screaming to everyone how great life is. If you can't do that most of the time (all the time is not realistic), then it is not right.

Good luck, I hope everything works out.

[stronger 43]

Ok...dude you're WAY too paranoid. and that was WAY too long for me to read. I skimmed it. Women and men are different...and I would peg her in a mold. If you say these things to her...I would do what she is doing. And if you are DEMANDING affection, instead of letting her adjust...then she won't give you even a peck. That's women in general. Just imagine moving to a foreign country and leaving everything behind. She's in shock..so is her daughter....and I am willing to bet, your aggressive stance will drive her further away. Give her time to adjust. Be more understanding, she might come around. No more offense or defense. Just be the man she fell for.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Bizarre. I never had this issue and I cannot imagine Alla saying "no", in fact if I didn't make advances every day (preferably several times)she will say I don't love her anymore or she must be fat or something.

As a matter of fact Ukrainian/American marriages have a substantialy better success rate that American/American marriages.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Add

We got married 8 days after Alla arrived so there was no need for pressure, though I cannot imagine Alla doing this in any case. We wanted to get married, that was the purpose of the K-1 and we did so right away. I had her on my insurance at work 3 weeks from when she arrived and had her AOS filed very quickly. I am not one to delay things which provide benefits for my family. Intimacy and affection are very important to Alla and she would not do things to use it as a weapon

FWIW Alla had two sons whom I will not consider anything except OUR sons and we have gotten along very well. I have a great time with both the boys and spend a lot of time with them, even more than Alla. The youngest has adjusted just great, the older one goes to college in Moscow but is how now and landed a job right away and is doing great. They both speak excellent English. Alla will receive her masters degree in teaching English late this month.

Like with any family, if the adults work together they can make some pretty great things together and make a good home for great kids. It absolutely CAN be done. I think I am the luckiest guy in the world.

[cardigans5 43]

I don't think it sounds too promising but I have to ask...the two times you visited her in the Ukraine was the intimacy normal then? I found my wonderful Alina and our relationship is nothing what you described so I see red flags but then every person and what everyone expects out of their relationship is different.

[Wishin-n-hopin 15]

Honestly, I am a woman and as a woman I would say that "your girl" sounds rather manipulative. What I've learned about relationships is this: when two people are really and truly in love, it will come easy. It just shouldn't be that hard. I'm not saying relationships don't take work....of course they do, but there is a certain level of "easiness" in relationships that are "right".

Here are a few things you might want to consider: I think I would slow things down a bit and see if she can "normalize" a little bit. I'm sure that coming to a new country requires much adjustment, but she should try to adjust WITH you....afterall, the plan was to get married and spend her life with you, right??? If she's "pushing" you to marry her right away, I think I would have to question what her hurry is. On a K-1 visa, you have 90 days to get married....so...maybe you should take a month or two and see if things work out. You should know in that amount of time if this is someone you would want to spend the rest of your life with.

Bottom line....you need to decide what your "gut" is telling you...your gut instinct is never wrong...so figure out what it's telling you and go with it.

Good luck.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Add

We got married 8 days after Alla arrived so there was no need for pressure, though I cannot imagine Alla doing this in any case. We wanted to get married, that was the purpose of the K-1 and we did so right away. I had her on my insurance at work 3 weeks from when she arrived and had her AOS filed very quickly. I am not one to delay things which provide benefits for my family. Intimacy and affection are very important to Alla and she would not do things to use it as a weapon

FWIW Alla had two sons whom I will not consider anything except OUR sons and we have gotten along very well. I have a great time with both the boys and spend a lot of time with them, even more than Alla. The youngest has adjusted just great, the older one goes to college in Moscow but is how now and landed a job right away and is doing great. They both speak excellent English. Alla will receive her masters degree in teaching English late this month.

Like with any family, if the adults work together they can make some pretty great things together and make a good home for great kids. It absolutely CAN be done. I think I am the luckiest guy in the world.

Are you taking an opportunity to brag how great is your wife and life, or really trying to help the OP?

[davebigs 1]

Hang in there, give her some time. Being in a new country and culture can be very overwhelming, even more so for a woman. Let her take her time. It will mean more for both of you if it happens over time. Good luck.

[Mal and Meg 12]

I would delay getting married for a month or so and see what goes down!

[elya 17]

I am not a Russian/Ukrainian woman but am good friends with some, including several with American husbands and/or boyfriends so I have had plenty of opportunity to hear the vents. I am going to write from the side of advocating for her - so yes, this will be one-sided (heads up and advance apology to the people I am likely to offend!)

1) What to many Americans is a neat freak is to many Russians/Ukrainians just a decent housekeeper. From my experience placing Russian students with American host families, as well as knowing many Russian women who live in the U.S., it is entirely possible that she is horrified by the condition of your house (which to you may seem just slightly messy). That could definitely be a turn-off and raise some red flags on her end as to what she left her home for. No, I haven't seen your house and maybe she is just OCD - but I have witnessed this type of clash before between others.

2) You already took a step towards trying to control how she raises her daughter by telling her to stop giving instructions so you could avoid being a few minutes late. Huge red flag if that were me and my kid.

3) You are getting upset at her for not doing her part in the bedroom - and offended that intimacy to her means cuddling and talking - but at the same time you are running off and doing your own thing, which in her view is not doing your part to promote family time. Sounds like you guys have different views on the priorities of a healthy marriage and relationship.

4) It sounds like you and her are equally using intimate relations and marriage for 'blackmail' - only vice versa. You've made it pretty clear to her what you expect immediately and frequently if she wants you to marry her without so much as giving her a little time to adapt and adjust. Hell yeah I wouldn’t marry someone who didn’t want to sleep with me - I also wouldn't want to marry someone who was this focused on the lack of sex - cmon its only been 10 days.

Another question just for you to think about and maybe understand better where she‘s coming from, if it does apply. Did she and her daughter live in a one-room apartment? If so, for how long? She may have become so used to sleeping with her daughter that it's going to require some time for her to feel comfortable being without her - especially if she hates your room.

Anyhow, I don't think she is necessarily out to scam you, although it is certainly possible.

Pushing for marriage could be the (stupid) notion that once you're husband and wife, things will get better - or it could be the fact that she knows there's no way for her to stay until then.

If you both want a normal happy marriage, whether or not you can have it will depend on how you both define a normal, happy marriage - seems possible right now that you both have very different views on that. If your relationship is going to work you BOTH need to be a lot more understanding and tolerant of each other. Respect each other, give each other time, and work through it together.

Whether or not you both want to put in the work required to make this work is something for you and her to decide, within the next 90 days (or 80 remaining I guess?).

Definitely don’t marry her unless you get to a point where you both feel comfortable that you can live with and love each others quirks. That won’t end well for either of you. But don't blame her alone if it doesn't work out, and do the right thing by her if she ends up going home.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Reading your lengthy post I can't help but see you as a guy who is way too obsessed with sex. Is that really the main reason you brought here to the US? I sure seems that way.

Intimacy is something that will come natural when a couple feels comfortable with one another. Your constant nagging about her doing you even if she doesn't feel like it won't help putting her at ease. I also doubt that your porn collection will help.

Real intimacy starts in the brain; it's not a purely mechanical act, at least not for women. What you need to do is make her feel welcome, cherished, as somebody who will complete you and is looking forward to a wonderful life in a wonderful country. If you can't pull that off, all you may be able to achieve is a woman who gives in to your demands as often as she feels she has to. That's not a basis for a marriage. You may as well spend your cash on hookers; they'll give you exactly what you bargain for without having to put any effort into this.

Look, I have no clue what your fiance's motives are as I have never met her, never heard her side of the story. Seems to me like you haven't heard it either though.

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

Pack up her up and send her running back.. even the mere - sleeping in a different room - for 8 of 10 nights... good example to that teenage daughter you allowed her to take. Dont put up with the nonsense or worst yet allow some of these people here to tell you to work thru it.. please!

[Moomin 292]

(...) leaving her at home. She protests why I need to leave and talk to someone, when my new family needs my time here at home. I tell her it is needed for my own happiness and sanity. I go anyway, and have a great time.

I dislike when culture is being used as an excuse to act out. You petitioning for her isn't about doing her a favor. Her coming to the US isn't about doing you a favor, it contributes to your hurdles when you turn against each other with denying the intimacy or going to a comrade's place. Nobody wants to be left like that and nobody wants to be denied.

Your fiancee might consider Ukraine as her home country but THIS is her home. She lives there. And she's new to all of it. It's not just about her adjusting to a new culture and your norms and habits, you have to adjust to her and to each other.

I get it if it was only a Russian thing but in reality, that whole "used to being independent", "used to this and that" is more about habits a person has through life rather than from a culture.

When you correct her way of "raising" her daughter on the second day it may be a culture thing.

Edited July 16, 2011 by moomin

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

Phil N, I'm a Russian guy (it's Victor writing) and I can tell - it's nothing in your situation about cultural differences. It's no any national traditions in Russia/Ukraine to sleep separately till marriage. I also would tell that girl sleeping with her teenage girl also pretty unusual in Russia/Ukraine (it's ok for a little child, but for teenage...). It's all seems personal behaviour, so my advice - don't try to figure if it's normal for Ukrainian girl, think only about personality of your fiancee and your relationship. I would tell from your story that her behaviour seems very strange for me as for a Russian guy.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Amy_and_Victor