Attitudes of Posters

[When2RNLove 6]

When I discovered VJ in 2008, I was so ecstatic, because I was days from paying an Attorney specializing in Immigration to do my paperwork. Lateley, I have seen more and more rude, uncaring, condensending, etc. attitudes here. From what I have been reading, it seems to come from mostly those, the Petitioners, who have gotten their fiancee/fiance to the states already, and those are the ones, in my opinion, that seem to be the rudest when posting and thinking they are giving good advice. To me, these posters might as well be calling the ones coming to VJ for help and/or assistance dumbasses because that's what I'm detecting in their tone of voices when posting. It's like they have a damn degree in law and specialized in Immigration matters. I feel these rude posters that have been on VJ a while feel like they are God's gift to VJ. Remember, you are the master of yourself and don't be arrogant when posting. I'm just coming to the defense of those who have been talked down to, and you can tell the person that came here for help felt the same way because they are posting rebuttal comments, as well as others reading their posts, and I quote "there is no need to be rude" as one example, and too, some comments come across as such. You made your bed, now lie in it. There is no need for such comments, and yes, I'm good at reading between the lines for those who make such comments although you're not spelling it out in such a way.

I am thankful though for VJ because it has guided me to where I am now. Married, and about to do the AOS this month.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

When I discovered VJ in 2008, I was so ecstatic, because I was days from paying an Attorney specializing in Immigration to do my paperwork. Lateley, I have seen more and more rude, uncaring, condensending, etc. attitudes here. From what I have been reading, it seems to come from mostly those, the Petitioners, who have gotten their fiancee/fiance to the states already, and those are the ones, in my opinion, that seem to be the rudest when posting and thinking they are giving good advice. To me, these posters might as well be calling the ones coming to VJ for help and/or assistance dumbasses because that's what I'm detecting in their tone of voices when posting. It's like they have a damn degree in law and specialized in Immigration matters. I feel these rude posters that have been on VJ a while feel like they are God's gift to VJ. Remember, you are the master of yourself and don't be arrogant when posting. I'm just coming to the defense of those who have been talked down to, and you can tell the person that came here for help felt the same way because they are posting rebuttal comments, as well as others reading their posts, and I quote "there is no need to be rude" as one example, and too, some comments come across as such. You made your bed, now lie in it. There is no need for such comments, and yes, I'm good at reading between the lines for those who make such comments although you're not spelling it out in such a way.

I am thankful though for VJ because it has guided me to where I am now. Married, and about to do the AOS this month.

I will be happy to assist you any way I can. Both here on the boards and by PM.

Congrats on your AOS!!

-Phil

[ready4ONE 5,400]

When I discovered VJ in 2008, I was so ecstatic, because I was days from paying an Attorney specializing in Immigration to do my paperwork. Lateley, I have seen more and more rude, uncaring, condensending, etc. attitudes here. From what I have been reading, it seems to come from mostly those, the Petitioners, who have gotten their fiancee/fiance to the states already, and those are the ones, in my opinion, that seem to be the rudest when posting and thinking they are giving good advice. To me, these posters might as well be calling the ones coming to VJ for help and/or assistance dumbasses because that's what I'm detecting in their tone of voices when posting. It's like they have a damn degree in law and specialized in Immigration matters. I feel these rude posters that have been on VJ a while feel like they are God's gift to VJ. Remember, you are the master of yourself and don't be arrogant when posting. I'm just coming to the defense of those who have been talked down to, and you can tell the person that came here for help felt the same way because they are posting rebuttal comments, as well as others reading their posts, and I quote "there is no need to be rude" as one example, and too, some comments come across as such. You made your bed, now lie in it. There is no need for such comments, and yes, I'm good at reading between the lines for those who make such comments although you're not spelling it out in such a way.

I am thankful though for VJ because it has guided me to where I am now. Married, and about to do the AOS this month.

If you are referring to Off Topic tone, grin and bear it. If you are talking about the various forums, where actual advice is being sought, then report it. There is no place for that type of thing in the real forums.

[I'm Gone 60]

I would like to see the actual "rude" comment(s). Been around here a long time and some people are just a bit too sensitive. If you got your question(s) answered with useful information what more do you want?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

When I discovered VJ in 2008, I was so ecstatic, because I was days from paying an Attorney specializing in Immigration to do my paperwork. Lateley, I have seen more and more rude, uncaring, condensending, etc. attitudes here. From what I have been reading, it seems to come from mostly those, the Petitioners, who have gotten their fiancee/fiance to the states already, and those are the ones, in my opinion, that seem to be the rudest when posting and thinking they are giving good advice. To me, these posters might as well be calling the ones coming to VJ for help and/or assistance dumbasses because that's what I'm detecting in their tone of voices when posting. It's like they have a damn degree in law and specialized in Immigration matters. I feel these rude posters that have been on VJ a while feel like they are God's gift to VJ. Remember, you are the master of yourself and don't be arrogant when posting. I'm just coming to the defense of those who have been talked down to, and you can tell the person that came here for help felt the same way because they are posting rebuttal comments, as well as others reading their posts, and I quote "there is no need to be rude" as one example, and too, some comments come across as such. You made your bed, now lie in it. There is no need for such comments, and yes, I'm good at reading between the lines for those who make such comments although you're not spelling it out in such a way.

I am thankful though for VJ because it has guided me to where I am now. Married, and about to do the AOS this month.

I concur to a point.

First, there are some people on here who ARE well versed in law, whether they be para-legals, solicitors, lawyers, or attorneys. They don't advertise it because not only will they be inundated with queries but it's not technically LEGAL for a lawyer to give legal advice unless they have met with the person to discuss the many nuances of their particular case (also it's not covered by insurance if someone decides to sue them for bad advice). ALSO because as this is an open forum, posting a response to one person based on their special situation tends to get people excited and apply it to THEIR case when it might not be applicable. Therefore it's better to pretend they don't know anything, while trying hard not to get frustrated.

I have found myself getting ticked off some days. Especially on the days where I answer the same question over and over. People come and post questions rather than reading the instructions, checking the guides and all other manner of avenues first. Yes this is a forum but the several "where is my A number" posts tend to clog the system and the more dire situations get missed. There are also some days where I read a post and I think "are you serious?!". Many many many of the questions can be answered simply by reading the form instructions. "How do I count my household size?" for the I-864 is IN the I-864 instructions and yet this qn is asked several times a week. Take the time to read the instructions and you'll notice a lot of the rude comments will stop. Sometimes people do read the instructions but they don't think about it first. They read it once, they get confused and they log on and ask a qn. Had they taken a day to let it sink in, re-read the instructions slower this time they'd be fine.

There are some posters who are always particularly holier-than-thou and because their advice IS sound, it tends to be forgiven.. when they should be reminded that giving advice doesn't need to be coated in sarcasm and derision. For this reason, there is a report function. If you find a post rude simply PM'ing the Mods to say "this person is being rude" will suffice. Also, as suggested steer clear of the Off Topic forum (which I personally tend to ignore most of the time unless I'm bored) because the rules that apply in the normal forums don't apply there.

I am on VJ because it DOES give good advice. Sometimes you have to weed through some bits of bad advice and some bits of rude advice to get to the really good stuff but it is a great resource. I enjoy helping people and giving them the benefit of what I've learned, but that doesn't mean that some days I don't get frustrated that people seem to think that they don't have to help themselves at all.

There are some people that have been on here a while and could probably benefit from a little VJ holiday to chill out a little but also as stated by someone else above, you have to realise that you're getting FREE advice. Sometimes it isn't the nicest advice, sometimes it's not what you want to hear, and sometimes yes it might seem judgemental but sometimes you need to hear how your situation looks, how you asking that qn looks. That doesn't mean you can't get upset, but you should still appreciate that we're giving you free advice when we could be charging you like some sites just to ASK a qn.

When in doubt, report, and the mods will deal with it when they can. You might not see it but they do have a little "whisper in the ear" of the people that are nasty, and the people that you are probably referring to I am sure have heard it ALL before.

[I'm Gone 60]

When in doubt, report, and the mods will deal with it when they can. You might not see it but they do have a little "whisper in the ear" of the people that are nasty, and the people that you are probably referring to I am sure have heard it ALL before.

To me that is the wussiest thing a person a person can do. "Mr Mod he called me a name" I have never reported anyone in all the time I have been here. Not sure if I have ever been reported either. Like I said before, I would like to see the so called "rude" comment.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

To me that is the wussiest thing a person a person can do. "Mr Mod he called me a name" I have never reported anyone in all the time I have been here. Not sure if I have ever been reported either. Like I said before, I would like to see the so called "rude" comment.

There is a big difference between being called a name, and some people being out-right rude. Like the person who signed his deportation order at the AOS interview (foolish yes) but the several "have a nice trip home!" comments probably were uncalled for. That's one example. It's not as bad as some CAN be (there is a particular 3 people that are exceptionally rude in almost ALL their posts) but I do agree that for this process there are a few people who could benefit from a thicker skin... BUT that doesn't give full reign to bully people.

Plus, if it is a frivolous complaint then the mods will say so.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[Y&E 12]

Sometimes people do read the instructions but they don't think about it first. They read it once, they get confused and they log on and ask a qn. Had they taken a day to let it sink in, re-read the instructions slower this time they'd be fine.

I agree with most of what you've said but not entirely with the above. Many of the people who use this website speak English as a second language and therefore may struggle to understand the instructions on the forms. Some of the instructions can be a bit ambiguous. Also, one can't automatically assume that just because English is a person's first language that they will fully understand the forms either. So, they come to us for help.

It is frustrating and annoying to see the same question being asked and answered repeatedly but I think that many of us will be guilty of having done that. Sometimes even when the question has been answered it may not be clear to the reader for their way of understanding.

I totally agree that it's annoying to answer questions for people who have clearly not taken the time to research the resources on the website but I am willing to give people the benifit of the doubt if I can see that English isn't their first language.

And yes, I agree, there are plenty of rude people on here who make certain parts of the website a waste of time and ruin threads for people who started them innocently only to be belittled or have the thread go off on some entirely different tangent.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

I agree with most of what you've said but not entirely with the above.

Many of the people who use this website speak English as a second language and therefore may struggle to understand the instructions on the forms. Some of the instructions can be a bit ambiguous. Also, one can't automatically assume that just because English is a person's first language that they will fully understand the forms either.

So, they come to us for help.

It is frustrating and annoying to see the same question being asked and answered repeatedly but I think that many of us will be guilty of having done that. Sometimes even when the question has been answered it may not be clear to the reader for their way of understanding.

I totally agree that it's annoying to answer questions for people who have clearly not taken the time to research the resources on the website but I am willing to give people the benifit of the doubt if I can see that English isn't their first language.

And yes, I agree, there are plenty of rude people on here who make certain parts of the website a waste of time and ruin threads for people who started them innocently only to be belittled or have the thread go off on some entirely different tangent.

You know I always wonder why the USC wasn't the one asking the questions rather than their foriegn SO. If they are a USC, then my quess would be that they should now understand the english language enough to read and write it,since here in the US, 90% of everything is written and spoken in english. When I see the foregin SO here struggling thru this process along, I always wonder how much investment does the USC have invested in it. I am only stating an observation, not to be taken as a negative comment against anyone. I am sure everyone have their own personal reason for why they are the one asking the questions. Who would know best about understanding their government process than the individual who is a citizen of that country I would hope.

[sachinky 464]

What bugs me the most when somebody will PM for a particular piece of information and after I've messaged them back, a few days later they'll PM again saying, 'Hey, I lost that link/form/etc--can you find it for me again?" Uh, no. I will not do your work for you.

I also think people just need to grow a thicker skin. This is a free advice forum and a great one at that. Things are not always going to be sugar-coated for you.

When I first joined VJ, I admit I asked my fair share of stupid questions but I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to reply with sound advice and support.

I try not to be rude but it's hard when someone will post an OP like 'My girlfriend was EWI, she was deported and she signed a statement saying she would not enter for the next 5 years but she entered EWI again--can she stay if I marry her?" I mean, seriously?

Some of the truly expert members are rude but it is forgiven because you know their advice is accurate.

This is something I posted earlier--I know the general attitude here on VJ is that the USC petitioner should do everything including the filling up the forms, paying the bills, organizing the information. Of course, it's a personal choice but it is also terribly patronising to beneficiaries like me who take an active interest in the entire visa process since it affects our lives too. We're not all completely incompetent, despite the general prevalent attitude. I am absolutely capable of reading the forms, interpreting and answering the questions correctly. I have no trouble with the English language and can comprehend the simple instructions written clearly on the form. When in need, I ask our dear VJ members for help. So far, I've pretty much done everything on my own, right from paying the AOS/IV bills to filling out the forms, making the cover letters, etc. -- both during the USCIS stage, and now through NVC. My husband does help, of course, (such as his tax transcripts/AOS forms) but he prefers to leave the paperwork to me. I'm good with forms, completely obsessive and #######-retentive about paperwork. Besides, I have a lot more time on my hands that he does.

Our delay (due to a ridiculous AOS RFE) is actually because my husband overlooked what I marked out explicitly for him. I can understand if the beneficiary is extremely busy or his/her English is not strong enough, or doesn't have access to a computer/printer to have a little help but to insist that USC petitioners should do ALL of it or to imply that they are not invested enough in the process is more than a little unfair and condescending.

Sorry to vent and go off on a tangent--this just bugs me tremendously.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Some of the truly expert members are rude but it is forgiven because you know their advice is accurate.

When the 'experts' act rude, it seems to give permission for everyone else to act the same.

[mox 298]

If you are sending and receiving immigration advice via pm, you are not only doing it wrong but you're exposing yourself to a lot of risk. The great thing about these forums is that if somebody puts something out there that's incorrect, it's very likely to be corrected by somebody else, often within minutes. If you get that same info via pm, then you lose that.

I agree that there are some pretty rude people out there who are rude for no other reason than to just be condescending jerks. (*cough*pushbrk*cough*) I don't know why this is, possibly they're trying to compensate for their own shortcomings.

Then there are those of us (and I include myself) who are rude to specific individuals for a number of different reasons. People handing out immigration advice who have no business handing out advice is one of my pet peeves, for instance, and it's been my experience that if you try to correct them nicely, they just keep doing what they're doing, often telling you to stfu. So rudeness seems to be the only thing that gets through to these people.

The other kind of person I don't mind being rude to is the type of person who judges somebody else's situation or relationship, rather than provide help. The "your fiancee was stupid and selfish for overstaying her visa for 30 days so you'll just have to live with the consequences" type crowd. These people deserve ridicule and scorn.

You also deserve ridicule and scorn if you ever once post a variation of "that's easy for you to say, your spouse is already in the states with you." Seriously, people who post that need to die of cancer in a fire. Because all it does is drive away the experts who have gone through this process and have sometimes years of experience that could be beneficial. Just because somebody went through this a year ago, 5 years ago, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't know what you're going through. Listen to their advice or not, but don't dismiss their experiences as irrelevant just because they're on the other side of the line.

Last point: sometimes people come across as rude when they don't mean to be. It's either just the way they are, or that they're skipping the niceties to get to their point. Emotions and attitude are hard to convey in text, even with VJ's cornucopia of emoticons. Give people the benefit of the doubt first, unless it's completely obvious.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree that there are some pretty rude people out there who are rude for no other reason than to just be condescending jerks. (*cough*pushbrk*cough*)

He should be banned. I've been on this site a very long time and no longer help in the upper forums as I've more or less forgotten most of what I used to know, but I did help once upon a time and I did get help once upon a time. No one in my memory was ever that rude. That level of condescension should simply not be acceptable no matter how smart one is perceived to be.

[mox 298]

I disagree. I don't think they type of rudeness/condescension pushbrk practices is a TOS violation, and thus not ban-worthy.

The solution is simple. How do you handle a bully? You keep bloodying their nose until they realize people aren't going to take their ####### anymore. As long as people fawn over him and meekly put up with the rudeness, he will continue. And why not? People tolerate it, so he has no incentive to change.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

If you are sending and receiving immigration advice via pm, you are not only doing it wrong but you're exposing yourself to a lot of risk. The great thing about these forums is that if somebody puts something out there that's incorrect, it's very likely to be corrected by somebody else, often within minutes. If you get that same info via pm, then you lose that.

I agree that there are some pretty rude people out there who are rude for no other reason than to just be condescending jerks. (*cough*pushbrk*cough*) I don't know why this is, possibly they're trying to compensate for their own shortcomings.

Then there are those of us (and I include myself) who are rude to specific individuals for a number of different reasons. People handing out immigration advice who have no business handing out advice is one of my pet peeves, for instance, and it's been my experience that if you try to correct them nicely, they just keep doing what they're doing, often telling you to stfu. So rudeness seems to be the only thing that gets through to these people.

The other kind of person I don't mind being rude to is the type of person who judges somebody else's situation or relationship, rather than provide help. The "your fiancee was stupid and selfish for overstaying her visa for 30 days so you'll just have to live with the consequences" type crowd. These people deserve ridicule and scorn.

You also deserve ridicule and scorn if you ever once post a variation of "that's easy for you to say, your spouse is already in the states with you." Seriously, people who post that need to die of cancer in a fire. Because all it does is drive away the experts who have gone through this process and have sometimes years of experience that could be beneficial. Just because somebody went through this a year ago, 5 years ago, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't know what you're going through. Listen to their advice or not, but don't dismiss their experiences as irrelevant just because they're on the other side of the line.

Last point: sometimes people come across as rude when they don't mean to be. It's either just the way they are, or that they're skipping the niceties to get to their point. Emotions and attitude are hard to convey in text, even with VJ's cornucopia of emoticons. Give people the benefit of the doubt first, unless it's completely obvious.

I'll say 'spot on' to your statements.

Except for the bolded portion.

Some people just can't be taught anything. But those are few and far between, really. Newbies CAN be trained but sometimes you have to do it like you raise wee 'uns - with a frim and loving hand.

Really, being rude won't get the point across nor will it gain you a good reputation. You're going to end up looking just as stupid (if not worse) as the 'offender'.