I'm back and have more questions..

[morocco4ever 63]

Yeah, when ya post to a wronged MENA USC suggesting they contact the FBI to finger their SO as an al quaeda operative just to get them deported for being unfaithful, yeah one tends to get a bit of attention.

did I miss something big?

I was hoping that the comment was venting rather than an actual suggestion.

[Muh and me 18]

I must have missed it too.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, Big Mistake... sooner or later your SO/husband is going to wish that you did... believe it or not and whether you ever become Muslim, or not. It's what he is used to.... it's what he has seen in his Mother and Sisters, as proper for Wives... I know you won't believe this, but it's very likely. but he should know since he is one. He is not a Muslim woman, unless I missed something, and being a Muslim man doesn't allow him to dictate the behavior of or judge other Muslims, Only Allah can judge. And all he knows is what you tell him, so how is that any different than the fact that all we know is what you tell us... He's in no position to judge and as far as I've read no one here has judged him. You've been given GENERAL advice. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. You may have missed the part about people wanting what others have (GC or not) and doing whatever they need to get it, regardless of where they are from, or what the person has that they want... Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here. And obviously you have had your say...

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us,Only what you have told us which I think no one has challenged as being the truth. just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others? Maybe you are unaware that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Maybe you are unaware that women who have Arab/American children are likely to remarry into the culture of their children's 2nd identity... or stay in the community they have become a part of. Maybe because they are learning from their previous mistakes... Should I have left Islam and joined a convent because my marriage failed?

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these,Why are you so sure of this? but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three. And not all MENA marriages that end in divorce are because of GC fraud either! I was married to a USC who married me for fraudulent reasons! He was MENA, but the GC had nothing to do with it.. (however I should have checked with his first wife who gave him the USC and I bet she has another version of how their marriage ended! )

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that. Your argumentative nature is what makes people perceive this. Along with the fact that people tell you what red flags they have seen (that are identical to your situation) and you say "whew, I don't see any red flags!"... What the HECK???

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship And as I recall you were given good advice and it's no one on this list's fault that one of the issues you will face FROM THE USCIS/EMBASSY is the RED FLAG OF AGE DIFFERENCE& RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCE. THEIR RED FLAGS, whether anyone likes it or not. and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

By the way how does your SO/Husband feel about the picture you have (or did have) of the two of you kissing on your profile?

I am really amazed at how miffed you are over what people have said here. I think they have been amazingly kind and helpful to you. If you were on other lists I've belonged to (of women married to Egyptians many of them for 10 or more years, many who have lived here and there) you'd be eaten alive for breakfast on toast points. No one has done that here.

Honestly.... we only know what you tell us... you are free to ignore everything you've been told... and you can discount our experiences and our perceptions and believe everything your SO tells you. This is totally your perogative.

Enjoy!

[PnA 0]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, Big Mistake... sooner or later your SO/husband is going to wish that you did... believe it or not and whether you ever become Muslim, or not. It's what he is used to.... it's what he has seen in his Mother and Sisters, as proper for Wives... I know you won't believe this, but it's very likely. but he should know since he is one. He is not a Muslim woman, unless I missed something, and being a Muslim man doesn't allow him to dictate the behavior of or judge other Muslims, Only Allah can judge. And all he knows is what you tell him, so how is that any different than the fact that all we know is what you tell us... He's in no position to judge and as far as I've read no one here has judged him. You've been given GENERAL advice. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. You may have missed the part about people wanting what others have (GC or not) and doing whatever they need to get it, regardless of where they are from, or what the person has that they want... Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here. And obviously you have had your say...

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us,Only what you have told us which I think no one has challenged as being the truth. just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others? Maybe you are unaware that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Maybe you are unaware that women who have Arab/American children are likely to remarry into the culture of their children's 2nd identity... or stay in the community they have become a part of. Maybe because they are learning from their previous mistakes... Should I have left Islam and joined a convent because my marriage failed?

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these,Why are you so sure of this? but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three. And not all MENA marriages that end in divorce are because of GC fraud either! I was married to a USC who married me for fraudulent reasons! He was MENA, but the GC had nothing to do with it.. (however I should have checked with his first wife who gave him the USC and I bet she has another version of how their marriage ended! )

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that. Your argumentative nature is what makes people perceive this. Along with the fact that people tell you what red flags they have seen (that are identical to your situation) and you say "whew, I don't see any red flags!"... What the HECK???

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship And as I recall you were given good advice and it's no one on this list's fault that one of the issues you will face FROM THE USCIS/EMBASSY is the RED FLAG OF AGE DIFFERENCE& RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCE. THEIR RED FLAGS, whether anyone likes it or not. and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

By the way how does your SO/Husband feel about the picture you have (or did have) of the two of you kissing on your profile?

I am really amazed at how miffed you are over what people have said here. I think they have been amazingly kind and helpful to you. If you were on other lists I've belonged to (of women married to Egyptians many of them for 10 or more years, many who have lived here and there) you'd be eaten alive for breakfast on toast points. No one has done that here.

Honestly.... we only know what you tell us... you are free to ignore everything you've been told... and you can discount our experiences and our perceptions and believe everything your SO tells you. This is totally your perogative.

Enjoy!

Im speechless! LOL

very well said

[me_4_musa 1]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, Big Mistake... sooner or later your SO/husband is going to wish that you did... believe it or not and whether you ever become Muslim, or not. It's what he is used to.... it's what he has seen in his Mother and Sisters, as proper for Wives... I know you won't believe this, but it's very likely. but he should know since he is one. He is not a Muslim woman, unless I missed something, and being a Muslim man doesn't allow him to dictate the behavior of or judge other Muslims, Only Allah can judge. And all he knows is what you tell him, so how is that any different than the fact that all we know is what you tell us... He's in no position to judge and as far as I've read no one here has judged him. You've been given GENERAL advice. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. You may have missed the part about people wanting what others have (GC or not) and doing whatever they need to get it, regardless of where they are from, or what the person has that they want... Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here. And obviously you have had your say...

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us,Only what you have told us which I think no one has challenged as being the truth. just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others? Maybe you are unaware that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Maybe you are unaware that women who have Arab/American children are likely to remarry into the culture of their children's 2nd identity... or stay in the community they have become a part of. Maybe because they are learning from their previous mistakes... Should I have left Islam and joined a convent because my marriage failed?

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these,Why are you so sure of this? but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three. And not all MENA marriages that end in divorce are because of GC fraud either! I was married to a USC who married me for fraudulent reasons! He was MENA, but the GC had nothing to do with it.. (however I should have checked with his first wife who gave him the USC and I bet she has another version of how their marriage ended! )

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that. Your argumentative nature is what makes people perceive this. Along with the fact that people tell you what red flags they have seen (that are identical to your situation) and you say "whew, I don't see any red flags!"... What the HECK???

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship And as I recall you were given good advice and it's no one on this list's fault that one of the issues you will face FROM THE USCIS/EMBASSY is the RED FLAG OF AGE DIFFERENCE& RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCE. THEIR RED FLAGS, whether anyone likes it or not. and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

By the way how does your SO/Husband feel about the picture you have (or did have) of the two of you kissing on your profile?

I am really amazed at how miffed you are over what people have said here. I think they have been amazingly kind and helpful to you. If you were on other lists I've belonged to (of women married to Egyptians many of them for 10 or more years, many who have lived here and there) you'd be eaten alive for breakfast on toast points. No one has done that here.

Honestly.... we only know what you tell us... you are free to ignore everything you've been told... and you can discount our experiences and our perceptions and believe everything your SO tells you. This is totally your perogative.

Enjoy!

[Muh and me 18]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, Big Mistake... sooner or later your SO/husband is going to wish that you did... believe it or not and whether you ever become Muslim, or not. It's what he is used to.... it's what he has seen in his Mother and Sisters, as proper for Wives... I know you won't believe this, but it's very likely. but he should know since he is one. He is not a Muslim woman, unless I missed something, and being a Muslim man doesn't allow him to dictate the behavior of or judge other Muslims, Only Allah can judge. And all he knows is what you tell him, so how is that any different than the fact that all we know is what you tell us... He's in no position to judge and as far as I've read no one here has judged him. You've been given GENERAL advice. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. You may have missed the part about people wanting what others have (GC or not) and doing whatever they need to get it, regardless of where they are from, or what the person has that they want... Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here. And obviously you have had your say...

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us,Only what you have told us which I think no one has challenged as being the truth. just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others? Maybe you are unaware that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Maybe you are unaware that women who have Arab/American children are likely to remarry into the culture of their children's 2nd identity... or stay in the community they have become a part of. Maybe because they are learning from their previous mistakes... Should I have left Islam and joined a convent because my marriage failed?

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these,Why are you so sure of this? but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three. And not all MENA marriages that end in divorce are because of GC fraud either! I was married to a USC who married me for fraudulent reasons! He was MENA, but the GC had nothing to do with it.. (however I should have checked with his first wife who gave him the USC and I bet she has another version of how their marriage ended! )

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that. Your argumentative nature is what makes people perceive this. Along with the fact that people tell you what red flags they have seen (that are identical to your situation) and you say "whew, I don't see any red flags!"... What the HECK???

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship And as I recall you were given good advice and it's no one on this list's fault that one of the issues you will face FROM THE USCIS/EMBASSY is the RED FLAG OF AGE DIFFERENCE& RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCE. THEIR RED FLAGS, whether anyone likes it or not. and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

By the way how does your SO/Husband feel about the picture you have (or did have) of the two of you kissing on your profile?

I am really amazed at how miffed you are over what people have said here. I think they have been amazingly kind and helpful to you. If you were on other lists I've belonged to (of women married to Egyptians many of them for 10 or more years, many who have lived here and there) you'd be eaten alive for breakfast on toast points. No one has done that here.

Honestly.... we only know what you tell us... you are free to ignore everything you've been told... and you can discount our experiences and our perceptions and believe everything your SO tells you. This is totally your perogative.

Enjoy!

[sandinista! 1,816]

Yeah, when ya post to a wronged MENA USC suggesting they contact the FBI to finger their SO as an al quaeda operative just to get them deported for being unfaithful, yeah one tends to get a bit of attention.

relax lal. "Those people who are doing and saying those things will have their times in the end to have to face what they're doing.. it is not for me to do."

i doubt this person realizes that the same would apply to her suggesting someone make false terrorist accusations. and somehow i have a tendency to think that the ramifications of suggesting such a thing would be far more serious than anything said on expats. ignorance is bliss and whatnot.

good grief.

[AngelK96 0]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, Big Mistake... sooner or later your SO/husband is going to wish that you did... believe it or not and whether you ever become Muslim, or not. It's what he is used to.... it's what he has seen in his Mother and Sisters, as proper for Wives... I know you won't believe this, but it's very likely. but he should know since he is one. He is not a Muslim woman, unless I missed something, and being a Muslim man doesn't allow him to dictate the behavior of or judge other Muslims, Only Allah can judge. And all he knows is what you tell him, so how is that any different than the fact that all we know is what you tell us... He's in no position to judge and as far as I've read no one here has judged him. You've been given GENERAL advice. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. You may have missed the part about people wanting what others have (GC or not) and doing whatever they need to get it, regardless of where they are from, or what the person has that they want... Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here. And obviously you have had your say...

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us,Only what you have told us which I think no one has challenged as being the truth. just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others? Maybe you are unaware that Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Maybe you are unaware that women who have Arab/American children are likely to remarry into the culture of their children's 2nd identity... or stay in the community they have become a part of. Maybe because they are learning from their previous mistakes... Should I have left Islam and joined a convent because my marriage failed?

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these,Why are you so sure of this? but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three. And not all MENA marriages that end in divorce are because of GC fraud either! I was married to a USC who married me for fraudulent reasons! He was MENA, but the GC had nothing to do with it.. (however I should have checked with his first wife who gave him the USC and I bet she has another version of how their marriage ended! )

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that. Your argumentative nature is what makes people perceive this. Along with the fact that people tell you what red flags they have seen (that are identical to your situation) and you say "whew, I don't see any red flags!"... What the HECK???

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship And as I recall you were given good advice and it's no one on this list's fault that one of the issues you will face FROM THE USCIS/EMBASSY is the RED FLAG OF AGE DIFFERENCE& RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCE. THEIR RED FLAGS, whether anyone likes it or not. and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

By the way how does your SO/Husband feel about the picture you have (or did have) of the two of you kissing on your profile?

I am really amazed at how miffed you are over what people have said here. I think they have been amazingly kind and helpful to you. If you were on other lists I've belonged to (of women married to Egyptians many of them for 10 or more years, many who have lived here and there) you'd be eaten alive for breakfast on toast points. No one has done that here.

Honestly.... we only know what you tell us... you are free to ignore everything you've been told... and you can discount our experiences and our perceptions and believe everything your SO tells you. This is totally your perogative.

Enjoy!

Good one me_4_musa..

[caybee 21]

Yeah, when ya post to a wronged MENA USC suggesting they contact the FBI to finger their SO as an al quaeda operative just to get them deported for being unfaithful, yeah one tends to get a bit of attention.

did I miss something big?

I was hoping that the comment was venting rather than an actual suggestion.

I remember the incident, don't remember the details though.

[LaL 418]

Yeah, when ya post to a wronged MENA USC suggesting they contact the FBI to finger their SO as an al quaeda operative just to get them deported for being unfaithful, yeah one tends to get a bit of attention.

relax lal. "Those people who are doing and saying those things will have their times in the end to have to face what they're doing.. it is not for me to do."

i doubt this person realizes that the same would apply to her suggesting someone make false terrorist accusations. and somehow i have a tendency to think that the ramifications of suggesting such a thing would be far more serious than anything said on expats. ignorance is bliss and whatnot.

good grief.

Right, however I am more afraid of ignorance than most other things. I think m4e must be much kinder than I am, because I simply cannot see a justification for what was said. It just blows my mind.

But you are absolutely correct, things like this said on VJ outweigh any kind of moaning members do on expats.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't want to hear anything that would upset her. I'm not an enabler or a sweet talker, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I'm not going to blow sunshine up your a$$; if I say something, I mean it, and it's not to create drama. From my longterm study of Islam, urfi marriages, "boyfriend Islam", and accusing Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding you from the truth are all red flags, IMO, but that's may not be something she wants to hear. Being older, fat, and ugly can be red flags for a CO, we all know that, too. So, how do you give serious, honest, impartial advice to people who post a list of what they don't want to hear?

No where DID I accuse Muslim women of not "acting Muslim" because they aren't shielding me from red flags. If I said those exact words please link it. The only comment made toward Muslim women is what my SO other said. I don't know how a Muslim woman is suppose to act nor do I care, but he should know since he is one. What I do care about is all I keep reading from the same ones over and over, how a MENA relationship is gonna end because he's just for a GD. Not everything i'm talking about has been said to me directly.. I mean I do read posts and I would think I could have my say as any of you do on here.

I'm a born Muslim woman who is very serious about my faith, and I care how Muslim men are supposed to act. An honorable Sunni would not enter into an urfi marriage because Sunni Islam doesn't accept unmarried sex, nor does it recognize unsanctified "marriages". If you can't apply for a CR1, you are not married, period. And, living together doesn't guarentee a visa either. This is not said to be mean, it's said because it's something you should seriously consider when dealing with a MENA man. Have high expectations of him. It can't hurt.

The thing that set me off about what you said is your SO criticizing us even as he engages in haram activity with you. You say you wouldn't marry someone without living with them. Ok, that's your choice, but don't bring Islam into it by implying that urfi is acceptable in Islam or that Muslims are allowed to marry people who do not practice Christianity or Judaism. All three faiths direct their adherents not to shack up, but to marry those who are chaste. Not everything you have been told is true, even if it's from your boyfriend. BTW, the Quran directs Muslim men NOT to take girlfriends, either (Q 5:5). What you do is your business, but when you or he portend to lecture us about how Muslims are to act, you will open a can of worms.

I see there is a comprehension problem here that everyone assumes I don't want to hear the truth and become upset. None of you know me and my SO irl to know anything about us, just like I don't you. You're looking at what you see the most, the ones that don't work out, but you don't know everyone in the U.S. that has a marriage as those that fell. Through these months of being on here over and over I read the same thing.. MENA use women in U.S. for nothing but a GC. If this is so true, then why the very ones posting this is with one and in some cases on thier second and third? Shouldn't they take the advice they are giving others?

As I said before, I an aprehensive about marriages between Arabs and non-Arabs, and between faiths. As a Muslim woman who was maried to a Christian man [islam doesn't prohibit this, but Muslims do], I know firsthand the risks and problems involved in mixed marriage. As an Arab who has lived in the west and the Arab/Muslim world, I know alot about Arabs, Arab cultures and traditions. I comment on what I have seen and the chances of success in mixed marriages of this sort are lessened because the Arab tendency to cling to tradition is in opposition to the American tendency to reject it. I can't be accused of not taking my own advice; I've married Arab men from moderate cultures, and that works well for me.

My comment on being old, fat, and ugly comes from it being brought up over and over. I am older than my So, but the other two don't apply to me.. so, how can that upset me and pertain to my situation? I'm sure many marriages that fell invloved most or all three of these, but to say it over and over is rediculous. I'm sure not ALL MENA marriages and GC fraud has a woman labeled with those three.

Our point is that high fraud consulates see those as red flags. A large age gap between a USC woman and a MENA man where the woman is older has created a problem for some couples. I am only 5 years younger than my husband and he is young enough to be my son, but, as there are always exceptions, it was no problem for us, although I'm sure some here consider it to be a signal that we will crash and burn in a gc scam. That doesn't bother me at all.

Sure I want honest answers to my questions, but why is it if I question what is written and ask for more info, everyone goes crazy? Just like the webcam pics.. everyone that doesn't agree it has it's good points, goes crazy, if I say I think it does and asks why they think think it doesn't. Did I say anywhere I didn't want to hear anyone disagree with me? Why get so defensive if anyone disagrees with what you're saying? I'm talking in general here not to you. I'm being accused of the very same thing you guys yourselves are doing, but you're too blind to see that.

There are people here who get defensive on some issues and not on others, so it's possible to upset a few here and there. You will need to ignore that, or constantly be on the defensive yourself.

Do I think visa fraud doesn't exist.. no, I know it does and I don't need a lecture about it nor did I ask for one. In my one thread, I only asked for help in proving an ongoing relationship and when giving advice and I had questions, people can't handle that and accuse me of not wantng to hear the truth. The webcam thingy.. I think it shows we do communicate online, but if your experience is having a CO tell you it's not proof, then dang say this and i'll stop wasting my ink. That is what I was looking for the reason someone felt it wouldn't help us, not because I didn't want anyone to disagree with what I thought. If a CO told someone those things can be made up and proves nothing, then that is what I was interested in learning.

Just like the letters from family and friends, I didn't say they were made up if notorized. I said, the CO could say this as anyone can write something we all know this. But, if everyone felt letters were strong proof, then i'm gonna get busy having folks write them. Also, if a lot felt the CO didn't take them to heart as proof, I wouldn't worry about them that much. Can no one understand this? Obviously not..

People who experienced a smooth and successful visa quest know that what they did worked for them. That's pretty much all we know. For example, my Moroccan hubby got his visa the day after his interview. We meet IRL 3 years after we met online, married within 2 weeks, then, didn't file until more than a year after that. We dashed thru the CA visa center,but meandered thru the NVC for another year. We took hardly any evidence to the interview; fewer than a dozen pics, a smattering of emails and chats, a couple of airline tickets and hotel receipts. The whole bundle was about 3 inches thick. We have no rings. They gave him a visa anyway.

Would I advise others to do as we did? No, but it worked for us. Some things work for some, those same things don't work for others, and some things work all the time. Based on my research, I've advised several couples how to manage the visa interview, and, so far, every one of them has avoided AP. Why does the advice work? I have no idea except to say that it fulfills the CO's needs, and that understanding MUST be the focus of any visa pursuit.

My advice, just go with the flow. You'll get the most out of the experience here, if you do.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Speaking of red flags, this hasn't been posted in a while. Marc Ellis is a VJ member, and his services have proven helpful:

Denials Of Family-Based Immigrant Visas At Consulates And DHS Petition Revocations

by Marc Ellis

This article focuses on the return of approved family-based IV petitions by consulates and how to represent clients in DHS revocation proceedings.

After a family-based immigrant visa petition has been approved by USCIS, some clients might think that the process is nearly complete. They often have a rude awakening when their loved ones interview for visas at a US Consulate. This article will suggest some ways to avoid having the petition returned by the consulate. It will also point out a misrepresentation trap for the unwary that exists in the Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM).

First, to illustrate my points, here is a hypothetical fact situation.

Example: Petitioner sponsors a K-1 beneficiary. K-1 petition is approved by a USCIS Service Center in the US. The Service Center forwards the case to the National Visa Center. The case is assigned a case number and sent to the appropriate consulate by the NVC. The beneficiary interviews at a US Consulate and her case is not approved at the time of the interview. Rather, the interviewing officer first refuses the visa application under INA 221(g), and requests more information about the relationship.

After the petitioner and beneficiary provide the information, the consular officer decides that the petition should be returned to USCIS for review with the recommendation that it be revoked because it’s the officer’s view that a reasonable person would believe the relationship exists solely or primarily to convey an immigration benefit. The case then is sent from the interviewing officer to a supervisor at the consulate who reviews the officer’s recommendation. This process can sometimes take months or years. The process is sometimes called “AR” or administrative review

These are the facts we’re using for the article. Now here is the law.

I. The Burden a Consular Officer Must Meet to Recommend Revocation of an Approved Family Petition

There is a heavy burden a consular officer must meet before he or she can recommend an DHS-approved petition be revoked. In employment-based IV cases, a consular officer has the authority to invalidate labor certifications, if so instructed by the Department of State after obtaining an advisory opinion from the Bureau of Consular Affairs.

In family cases though, the power of consulates is more limited. DHS has the sole statutory authority to approve or revoke a family-based immigrant visa petition. And a DHS approval is a prima facie presentation of eligibility under the Act.

A good restatement of the standards governing petition returns by consulate is found in a February 2004 cable R 251642Z FEB 04, excerpted below, sent to all consulates.

… “6. In adjudicating visa cases involving petitions, posts should bear in mind three important factors: A. the consular officer's role in the petition process is to determine if there is substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the petition; B. the memo supporting the petition return must clearly show the factual and concrete reasons for recommending revocation (observations made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant) and; C. consular officers must provide to the applicant in writing as full an explanation as possible of the legal and factual basis for the visa denial and petition return. Post must maintain a copy of the returned petition, other evidence relevant to the case, and a copy of the written notification of the denial.

No readjudication of petitions

7. In general, an approved petition will be considered by consular officers as prima facie evidence that the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. Where Congress has placed responsibility and authority with DHS to determine whether the requirements for status which are examined in the petition process have been met, consular officers do not have the authority to question the approval of petitions without specific evidence, generally unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval, that the beneficiary may not be entitled to status (see 9 FAM 41.53, Note 2, 41.54 Note 3.2-2, 41.55 Note 8, 41.56 Note 10, 41.57 Note 6, and 42.43 Note 2) due to fraud, changes in circumstances or clear error on the part of DHS in approving the petition. Conoffs should not assume that a petition should be revoked simply because they would have reached a different decision if adjudicating the petition. …”

What does that language mean? It means an approved petition is prima facie evidence of eligibility for an immigrant visa, unless a consular officer finds substantial evidence of ineligibility. More importantly, this evidence must have been unknown and unavailable to DHS at the time it approved the petition. That is the nearly the whole game for your client right there, in a few words.

PRACTICE TIP #1 - What the words generally unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval should mean to skilled immigration practitioners, is that they should inform DHS in advance, at the time of filing the petition, of any potential red flags a consular officer might spot in the case. If DHS approves the petition anyway, a consulate is not supposed to deny a petition for that same reason.

What are some typical red flags that can cause a Consular Officer to suspect the merits of a relationship?

On the petitioner’s side, here is a brief and, by no means, complete list of reasons I have seen used to justify the return of family-based IV petitions and K petitions to DHS.

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary’s country and they meet for the first time;

3. No common language;

4. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

5. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

6. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

7. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary is often a red flag for consular officers.

8. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

10. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

11. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other beneficiaries.

I’ve only addressed the petitioner’s side of the relationship. There are other red flags that can afflict the beneficiary. But the point to remember is that consulates are not supposed to deny family-IV applications for reasons that were generally available to DHS at the time of approval, so tell DHS in advance of any potential red flags when you file the petition. That doesn’t guarantee consular officers won’t find other reasons unknown to DHS, but at least you will have served your client well by disarming the obvious landmines in his or her path. And you will make the consular officers work by forcing them to examine each and every fact asserted in the petition to see if DHS had knowledge of the information used to justify the recommendation for revocation.

II: K-1 Conundrum (Double or Nothing-Revocations)

K-1 and K-3 visas are odd fish. They are non-immigrant visas. Yet they e processed at consulates as IV’s . Not only that, K-1’s and K-3’s have definite life-spans. A K-1 for instance expires after four months. It normally takes more than four months from the time of DHS approval for a beneficiary to be interviewed at the consulate. Thus, by the time the beneficiary in our fact situation shows up at the window, the petition approval is no longer valid.

41.81 N6.2 Validity of a K-1 Petition (TL:VISA-581; 09-03-2003)

An approved K-1 visa petition is valid for a period of four months from the date of Department of Homeland Security (DHS) action and may be revalidated by the consular officer any number of times for additional periods of four months from the date of revalidation, provided the officer concludes that the petitioner and the beneficiary remain legally free to marry and continue to intend to marry each other within 90 days after the beneficiary's admission into the United States. However, the longer the period of time since the filing of the petition, the more the consular officer must be concerned about the intentions of the couple, particularly the intentions of the petitioner in the United States. If the officer is not convinced that the U.S. citizen petitioner continues to intend to marry the beneficiary, the petition should be returned to the approving office of DHS with an explanatory memorandum. [see 9 FAM 41.81 PN7 for revalidation procedure.)

So in our fact situation above, let us assume the approval of her sponsor’s petition has lapsed at the time of the interview. And it will not be revalidated unless and until the consular officer is persuaded on the merits of her visa application.

Reading the above passage, the FAM seems to place a built-in presumption against the intentions of the couple if the processing time for the K-1 petition has been delayed, even for reasons beyond their control. That presumption grows more persuasive, the longer the petition is delayed. 9 FAM 41.81 N6.2 also mandates that if the consular officer does not believe the couple intentions, at the interview, he or she must return the already expired petition approval with an explanation to DHS.

What is the point of returning an expired petition to a DHS Service Center? It’s hard to say. Perhaps it’s simply an information exchange between the two agencies or perhaps it’s professional courtesy. But this is a part of the process that poses great danger for petitioners. This is the place in the process where a 212(a)(6)©(i)[1] Misrepresentation trap has been set by the FAM

Our beneficiary at this point is in danger of having a finding of misrepresentation entered into her record, even if neither she nor the petitioner have actually misrepresented anything.

40.63 N10 Miscellaneous

40.63 N10.1 Misrepresentation in Family Relationship Petitions (TL:VISA-313; 08-27-2001)

Pursuant to 8 CFR 205, invalidation of a labor certification for fraud in accordance with the instructions of INS or the Department of State automatically revokes an employment-based immigrant visa petition. On the other hand, INS retains exclusive authority to disapprove or revoke family-relationship immigrant visa petitions. Thus, a misrepresentation with respect to entitlement to status under a family-relationship petition, e.g., document fraud, sham marriage or divorce, etc., cannot be deemed material as long as the petition is valid. Upon discovery of a misrepresentation, the consular officer must return the petition to the INS office having jurisdiction over the petitioner's place of residence [see 22 CFR 42.43.] If the petition is revoked, the materiality of the misrepresentation is established.

Note the last words of 9 FAM 40.63.N10: “If the petition is revoked, the materiality of the misrepresentation is established.

This will slip by a lot of people. But a beneficiary who fails to satisfy the consular officer’s interpretation of the “Reasonable Person” as set out in 9 FAM 42.43 N2.2(3) according to this part of the FAM may have made a misrepresentation with respect to entitlement of status .

This is a very aggressive position DOS has taken on Misrepresentation. Why? Go back to the February 2004 cable I cited earlier in the article. It is not supposed to be easy for consular officers to return approved family immigrant visa petitions. There is a very heavy burden placed on consular officers who wish to recommend revocation to DHS. It is apparently the Department of State’s position that no officer will return an approved petition without the required specific evidence of ineligibility of which DHS was not aware.

So when the consulate returns our petitioner’s approved K-1 petition to USCIS, it will put a 212(a)(6)©(1) marker, called a “P6C1” marker, or a “quasi-refusal” in the beneficiary’s record. If DHS decides at a later date to revoke that petition, a hard 212(a)6©(i) finding can kick in.

Lawyers – Be Careful Here!

Now in many cases where a K-1 has been delayed, refused or denied at a US Consulate, lawyers have advised clients to simply get married and file and I-130. That is not good advice, unless the attorney also advises the petitioner to pay close attention to the K-1 that has been sent back to the Service Center from the consulate.

If a Service Center begins a revocation proceeding for that K-1 petition, a petitioner’s failure to respond will mean that DHS will revoke the approval of the petition. When that happens, the 212(a)(6)©(i) that is pending in our beneficiary file, will become hard finding of Misrepresentation, under 9 FAM 40.63 N10.1 (above).

A Rude Surprise at the Second Consular Interview

Our love birds have followed their lawyer’s advice and forgotten about the K-1 petition. A NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) letter comes in the mail and petitioner calls his lawyer. The lawyer says,

“Don’t worry about it. She’s your wife now. The K-1 petition is irrelevant.”

The lovebirds have taken the plunge and married. The petitioner has made another costly visit to the foreign country; bought another round trip airplane ticket, and maybe he has even sprung for a costly wedding ceremony.

An I-130 Petition for his new bride has been filed. And it is approved by the DHS Service Center. What will happen when his new wife appears at the US Consulate for her next interview?

Because the petitioner did not respond to the K-1 revocation notice, the beneficiary has a 212(a)(6)©(i) finding on her record. Even if the petition for her is approved, she is permanently barred from entering the US, unless she can obtain a waiver to that ground of inadmissibility.

What specific misrepresentation has this couple made? According to the section of the FAM cited above, it could be a generalized misrepresentation with respect to her entitlement to the K-1 status. She failed to satisfy the “Reasonable Person” Standard, and that has been boot-strapped more or less into a finding of Misrepresentation by the consulate.

If that seems counter-intuitive, if it seems strange to enter a finding of Misrepresentation under INA 212(a)(6)©(i), when no actual misrepresentations have been made, look at it from the perspective of DOS. There is a heavy burden placed upon consular officers before they can return a petition. They are not allowed to return a petition and recommend revocation for 221(g) reasons. Insufficiency of documentary evidence is not a reason for recommending that a DHS-approved family petition be revoked. Therefore, at least the way consulates views it, somebody must have made a misrepresentation somewhere with respect to the beneficiary’s entitlement to K-1 status.

What exactly was the misrepresentation? Nobody seems to know. DOS doesn’t give you a specific answer. The lawyer doesn’t know. And most importantly, the petitioner and beneficiary are clueless. They’re in sort of a Kafkaesque position. They’re accused of misrepresenting something. But nobody tells them exactly what they have misrepresented. This problem could have easily been avoided if the petitioner had simply responded to the NOID letter and argued the merits even though the couple had married.

PRACTICE TIP #2 - Respond to everything! Even if it doesn’t make sense, even if it’s no longer relevant, respond to it!

Now here is where it gets tricky. DHS probably does not even know about the 212(a)(6)©(i) finding that has been entered into the beneficiary’s record by DOS.

The approval for the K-1 petition has long since expired by the time the consulate has sent it back.

In my experience, different USCIS Service Centers handle K-1 revocations in different ways. I have seen Vermont and Nebraska notify the petitioner at once and give him or her 60 days to submit rebuttal evidence. I have seen California and Texas give a petitioner only 30 days to respond.

But I have also seen USCIS Service Centers not even use the revocation process for returned K-1 petitions. I have seen I-797 notices mailed to petitioners informing them that the petition was returned from the Consulate and that the approval for the petition has expired. California and Texas Service Centers seem to have at least a quasi-policy of not sending out NOID letters unless the petitioner requests one.

What about that Misrepresentation finding that is hanging in our beneficiary’s record? We know that it kicks in upon revocation. So is the petition approval revoked when a Service Center simply notifies a petitioner that the approval has lapsed, without giving her or him a chance to respond? No. Consular Immigrant Visa Chiefs are supposed to make sure that a revocation has in fact taken place before the 212(a)(6)©(i) marker becomes a finding.

What if Petitioner simply withdraws the petition after the consulate sends it back?

The regulations are rather unformed on this question. The aggressive stance DOS has taken toward Misrepresentation would lead me to err on the side of caution. If the petitioner has a chance to respond to an NOIR letter, this aggressive position might lead to a 212(a)(6)© finding entered on the beneficiary record.

Well, what if the K-1 petition is withdrawn after the interview, but before the supervisory consular officer signs off on it?

The FAM uses this language “Upon discovery of a misrepresentation, the consular officer must return the petition to the INS office having jurisdiction over the petitioner's place of residence [see 22 CFR 42.43.] If the petition is revoked, the materiality of the misrepresentation is established.”

So I would err on the side of caution there as well.

What if the NOID letter is sent to the petitioner, but the Service Center is unable to locate him? There seems to be some discretion granted to IV Chiefs at consulates. Some consulates will consider this a revocation and allow the Misrepresentation finding to kick in. Others won’t.

Now what?

So in our fact situation, the beneficiary goes to her second interview. The consular officer is satisfied with the merits of the case. But there is a finding of Misrepresentation in her record. He hands her a 221(g) refusal sheet and an I-601 waiver application.

Our lovebirds have to apply to DHS for a 212(i) waiver to the grounds of inadmissibility.

Here too, there is some discretion at the consulate. Not all Immigrant Visa Chiefs seem to do it this way. Some will take the time, investigate the case and take the view that the grounds of inadmissibility for the K-1 have been overcome with the spousal petition. Most will simply allow the waiver process to take its course.

Recommendations

A. Lawyers

1. As I noted earlier, lawyers must inform DHS in advance, of any potential red flags which may arise at the consulate interview. That means we must conduct more thorough interviews of our I-130 and K-1 clients.

2. Whenever an NOID or NOIR letter comes in the mail, respond to it!

B. Department of State

1. Consulates should recognize that simply because an officer discovers “ substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS”, it does not necessarily follow that the beneficiary or petitioner have willfully misrepresented any material facts. P6C markers should not be automatically entered into a case simply because a petition has been returned with the recommendation that its approval be revoked.

2. Failing #1, Petitioners and Beneficiaries need to be advised that the officer believes they have made a willful material misrepresentation of the beneficiary’s eligibility for the visa. They should also be advised of the consequences of 212(a)(6)©(i) on the return sheet given to the beneficiary.

C. DHS/USCIS Service Centers:

1. Service Centers need to be aware of the P6C entries that consulates are making and provide every K-1 petitioner an opportunity to rebut the consulate’s findings on the merits.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] © Misrepresentation. 212(a)(6)©(i) In general. ny alien who, by fraud or willfully misrepresenting a material fact, seeks to procure (or has sought to procure or has procured) a visa, other documentation, or admission into the United States or other benefit provided under this Act is inadmissible.

212(a)(6)©

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About The Author

Marc Ellis practices immigration law in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam and Houston Texas with Pham & Associates PC. He is a frequent chat moderator for ILW.COM and also an advisory board member for Immigrants Weekly. In France, he is known as the composer of "The Fantomas Waltz". His email is marcellislaw@gmail.com.

[sandinista! 1,816]

"I am only 5 years younger than my husband and he is young enough to be my son"

really, VW? that's amazing.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Yeah, when ya post to a wronged MENA USC suggesting they contact the FBI to finger their SO as an al quaeda operative just to get them deported for being unfaithful, yeah one tends to get a bit of attention.

did I miss something big?

I was hoping that the comment was venting rather than an actual suggestion.

even if that were the case, it was still heinous and unacceptable. the person who said that also says they have served in the military. they should know better that that kind of ####### is no joke at all. of all people...really.

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

"I am only 5 years younger than my husband and he is young enough to be my son"

really, VW? that's amazing.

she musta left out a number.