stateside honor killings

[nana_356 0]

i agree with Ganja and wahrania,

what i personally dislike is the phrase "muslim manners and traditions".

there is nothing that muslim parents wants for their child, that an american parent doesn't. manners is something we all hope that our children will adopt, many christian (or otherwise) parents would love nothing more than there children maintaining their innocense till marriage, dressing conservitavely etc. etc.

The only difference that I see is the different reactions that Mena parents VS. non mena parents have when their children chose not to live the lifestyles their parents wish!

how do you figure? parental reactions from place to place are as varied as the people who live there. societies as a whole may differ in their reactions, but they are still composed of individuals who might respond very differently than how the majority would. in egypt, hend el-hinnawy and her father is one example that comes to mind.

What happened to those poor girls is deffinetly not "one example."

[nana_356 0]

oops, excuse me, I accidentally hit reply, i was not finished yet.

But anyways, of coarce many people of different backgrounds act differetnly, but lets speak about majority.

Majority of these things happenings occur in the middle eastern culture.

I am not saying all, but majority does happen there.

[nana_356 0]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

[sandinista! 1,816]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

[sandinista! 1,816]

oops, excuse me, I accidentally hit reply, i was not finished yet.

But anyways, of coarce many people of different backgrounds act differetnly, but lets speak about majority.

Majority of these things happenings occur in the middle eastern culture.

I am not saying all, but majority does happen there.

on what basis do you come to the conclusion that the senseless murder of children by their parents is monopolized by people of middle eastern descent? i believe aisha_kandisha already addressed the point that every child murdered by their parents is as senseless, wretched, and heinous as any other. there's hardly a monopoly on extreme failures of justice to prevail there either.

[aisha kandisha 0]

oops, excuse me, I accidentally hit reply, i was not finished yet.

But anyways, of coarce many people of different backgrounds act differetnly, but lets speak about majority.

Majority of these things happenings occur in the middle eastern culture.

I am not saying all, but majority does happen there.

on what basis do you come to the conclusion that the senseless murder of children by their parents is monopolized by people of middle eastern descent? i believe aisha_kandisha already addressed the point that every child murdered by their parents is as senseless, wretched, and heinous as any other. there's hardly a monopoly on extreme failures of justice to prevail there either.

Exactly.

There is no shortage of American parents killing their children. Are there reasons any better? The deaths of those children somehow more sensible?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

so what do you think?do you think hind had it coming?What is your opinion on honor killings and their light sentences?

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

who is alot of people?what should he have done?

[sandinista! 1,816]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

so what do you think?do you think hind had it coming?What is your opinion on honor killings and their light sentences?

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

who is alot of people?what should he have done?

do i think hend had what coming? i'm certainly glad she finally won her case. from what i've read, she was lambasted by a lot of the media and public:

What is sure is that the young man has received and taken some monumentally bad advice over the last year. A sheikh he consulted reportedly told him that if he sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days, an abortion was forgivable. His parents have stood by him by and publicly insulted the Hinnawy family, saying Hind is a liar and a gold-digger and her baby is a "child of sin". His lawyer, who I've run into in court, is a pretentious prevaricator who likes to expound at length on the "illegitimacy" of the relationship and the child and dodge questions about why Fishawy has so far refused to take a court-ordered DNA test (the first of its kind). The case has become a cause celèbre in Egypt, with hundreds of news articles and TV talk shows dedicated to the subject. Some support Hinnawy, some bemoan the collapse of family values, and some just relish dissecting a good celebrity scandal. Hinnawy's parents, and in particular her soft-spoken father, have made the unusual decision to support her, making many public appearances to champion her cause.

her father did just what he should have done, which furthered my point that parental reactions from place to place are as varied as the people who live there. and i think anyone who didn't like him supporting his daughter can piss off. what part of when i said "i didn't say she did anything wrong." isn't clear?

and what part of "extreme failures of justice to prevail there" when i was talking about honor killings and their light sentences wasn't clear?

Edited April 27, 2008 by ta me go hiontach

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

so what do you think?do you think hind had it coming?What is your opinion on honor killings and their light sentences?

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

who is alot of people?what should he have done?

do i think hend had what coming? i'm certainly glad she finally won her case. from what i've read, she was lambasted by a lot of the media and public:

What is sure is that the young man has received and taken some monumentally bad advice over the last year. A sheikh he consulted reportedly told him that if he sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days, an abortion was forgivable. His parents have stood by him by and publicly insulted the Hinnawy family, saying Hind is a liar and a gold-digger and her baby is a "child of sin". His lawyer, who I've run into in court, is a pretentious prevaricator who likes to expound at length on the "illegitimacy" of the relationship and the child and dodge questions about why Fishawy has so far refused to take a court-ordered DNA test (the first of its kind). The case has become a cause celèbre in Egypt, with hundreds of news articles and TV talk shows dedicated to the subject. Some support Hinnawy, some bemoan the collapse of family values, and some just relish dissecting a good celebrity scandal. Hinnawy's parents, and in particular her soft-spoken father, have made the unusual decision to support her, making many public appearances to champion her cause.

her father did just what he should have done, which furthered my point that parental reactions from place to place are as varied as the people who live there. and i think anyone who didn't like him supporting his daughter can piss off. what part of when i said "i didn't say she did anything wrong." isn't clear?

and what part of "extreme failures of justice to prevail there" when i was talking about honor killings and their light sentences wasn't clear?

I asked you what you particularly thought .You have pretty much just pasted and clipped

[sandinista! 1,816]

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

so what do you think?do you think hind had it coming?What is your opinion on honor killings and their light sentences?

And what did hend el-hinnawy do wrong???

They were married when she became pregnant. (it was a common law marriage)

i didn't say she did anything wrong. thousands of women in her situation though often get abortions and recon. surgery to avoid the ramifications of society. he denied the marriage ever happened, and until she won that court case, there was nothing she could do to have her child's paternity recognized.

not everyone thought she did nothing wrong:

In the spacious offices of a successful teen magazine, I talked to Rania, an editorial assistant in her early 20s who wears tight jeans and make-up. I expected her to feel some solidarity for Hinnawy. Instead, she tells me immediately, she's heard Hinnawy was "with a lot of guys before," and thus "it isn't [Ahmad Al Fishawy's] fault." What shocks and disgusts her most is the way the Hinnawy family has made a spectacle of themselves. "They are making a big fuss about it and they have to hide this, this is something they have to be ashamed about," she says. Another young woman says it would be better to die than admit to being an unwed mother. http://www.popmatters.com/columns/lindsey/050627.shtml

her father's reaction and support were thought to be abnormal by a lot of people.

who is alot of people?what should he have done?

do i think hend had what coming? i'm certainly glad she finally won her case. from what i've read, she was lambasted by a lot of the media and public:

What is sure is that the young man has received and taken some monumentally bad advice over the last year. A sheikh he consulted reportedly told him that if he sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days, an abortion was forgivable. His parents have stood by him by and publicly insulted the Hinnawy family, saying Hind is a liar and a gold-digger and her baby is a "child of sin". His lawyer, who I've run into in court, is a pretentious prevaricator who likes to expound at length on the "illegitimacy" of the relationship and the child and dodge questions about why Fishawy has so far refused to take a court-ordered DNA test (the first of its kind). The case has become a cause celèbre in Egypt, with hundreds of news articles and TV talk shows dedicated to the subject. Some support Hinnawy, some bemoan the collapse of family values, and some just relish dissecting a good celebrity scandal. Hinnawy's parents, and in particular her soft-spoken father, have made the unusual decision to support her, making many public appearances to champion her cause.

her father did just what he should have done, which furthered my point that parental reactions from place to place are as varied as the people who live there. and i think anyone who didn't like him supporting his daughter can piss off. what part of when i said "i didn't say she did anything wrong." isn't clear?

and what part of "extreme failures of justice to prevail there" when i was talking about honor killings and their light sentences wasn't clear?

I asked you what you particularly thought .You have pretty much just pasted and clipped

what are you talking about? everything above in bold is what i "particularly thought". i cut and pasted myself, because i'd already answered what you were asking. there's nothing ambiguous about what i've said, just something lacking in your reading comprehension.

[SaadBell 0]

A recent landmark case regarding paternity testing in Egypt has brought the issue of customary marriage and the backwardness of Egyptian paternity legislation into the spotlight.

The reason the case caught the attention of so many is that it involved the young son of a famous Egyptian acting couple. Sumia al-Ulfi and Farouq el-Fishawi are now estranged but their son Ahmed upon reaching his early twenties was propelled into the limelight due to his parentage and good looks. The twist that made the case even more explosive is the fact that Ahmed, just as his acting career was taking off, rejected his Westernised background and career and instead embraced the principles of Islam, becoming the poster boy for the Amr Khaled (popular noveau trendy preacher) generation and the campaign to call Muslim youth back to their roots.

Ahmed began fronting a religious youth show entitled Yallah Shabab on MBC and made religion fashionable for thousands of swooning teenage girls. Imagine the denial (no awful pun intended) when shock, horror, young graphic designer Hend el-Hinnawy, a few years his senior, claimed that she and Ahmed had forged a customary marriage in secret and that she was pregnant with his child.

She claimed that he had begged her to abort and told her that it was all halal and permissible since he had consulted his preacher friends. When she refused is when the proverbial #### hit the fan. At this point very few believed her and the whole Arab World denounced the affair as a plot against the fresh-faced, doe-eyed Ahmed and an attempt to scupper the Islamic revival he was spearheading. To their disappointment and dismay, after the child was born Ahmed broke down and admitted that he had had a sexual affair with the woman in question, but they had not married. In addition, he claimed that he did not believe the child to be his (Premarital Relationship Ethics of Arab Males 101: if she's sleeping with you, she's banging everyone else in town. Never figured out if this was a fundamental belief that all women are essentially tarts or some inferiority complexed sub-conscious inability to accept that said woman may be in fact sufficiently in love with any Arab man to stay loyal).

At this point, the cheerleaders on his side of the court packed away their pom-poms and went home to rip his posters off their walls. Hend immediately applied for a DNA test and the case was heard in the courts for months while her father and Ahmed's campaigned in the media on behalf of their children and even squared off on Lebanese television. Hend herself bravely suffered the slings and arrows of being a mother to an ostensibly illegitmate child while Ahmed disappeared from Yallah Shabab and kept a very low profile.

Recently, the courts decided that under Egyptian law, Ahmed would not be recognized as the father even if the paternity test showed otherwise, and that Hend's daughter would have to remain fatherless. In the subsequent uproar (a heartwarming if belated one), the issue of customary marriage and the cases of thousands of fatherless babies were exposed. Customary marriages that produced children who subsequently saw fathers disappear or deny the affair leave the children and mothers stranded. The Ahmed el-Fishawy case further encourages men to perpetuate the system of almost total impunity under which they live. The maddening, infuriating and totally incomprehensible legacy of the issue is that Ahmad is being condemned for admitting to pre-marital sex while following a distinctly religious direction in his life. What nobody seems to be pissed off about is that he then continued to cash the unlimited number of free chips you get upon birth with male genitalia in Arabia. His case reinforces the fact that one can get caught and still manage to escape responsibility, even when that case is brought to court.

Sad sad sad, not a very loving thing to do, how can you pray to God, yet turn around and trash a women and child, I feel really sick when I read this. I hope that baby grows up and becames super rich and this loser will come begging for some money and this child tells him to #### off. I hate men like this, and anyone who thinks he acted in a mature manner, you need some help.

[SaadBell 0]

sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days

Sacrificed five camels, what a tool, poor camels. Hey it is 2008 people we don't have to kill animals to a God, geeeeeeeeez, read some science books, get some freaking education.

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days

Sacrificed five camels, what a tool, poor camels. Hey it is 2008 people we don't have to kill animals to a God, geeeeeeeeez, read some science books, get some freaking education.

the previous was a paid advertisement by the society for the prevention of cruelty to camels.

[Ihavequestions 419]

There is no shortage of American parents killing their children. Are there reasons any better? The deaths of those children somehow more sensible?

American parents aren't killing their children because of the shame - real or imagined - the children of their third cousin, twice-removed, may or may not feel 50 years from now.

No reason to kill a child is better than another. That is not the issue. The issue is the punishment of these people, usually men, who kill for honor, which is (most often) nothing.

[S and S 12]

sacrificed five camels and fasted for 60 days

Sacrificed five camels, what a tool, poor camels. Hey it is 2008 people we don't have to kill animals to a God, geeeeeeeeez, read some science books, get some freaking education.

the previous was a paid advertisement by the society for the prevention of cruelty to camels.

lol